Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
You do know that Martians have been hit while intangible right? You also know that he can't remain like that indefinitely, and that Doomsday has hit an intangible opponent right?
Originally posted by UniOmni
I honestly think that MM can take DD.
He has uber optic blasts, phasing and invisibility.
Plus he's faster by far.And MM as Bloodwynd just prayed for spirits and hit, and that was that. He wasn't anything special.
Jonn can hit kryptonians and make them bleed with ease.
He might not be as durable as the shielding(figuratively and literally) that covers them, but with his morphing and phasing, why he'd take the hit is beyond me.
And you mean to tell me, that between constant uber eyeblasts and envoirnmental amping, he can't take down doomsday??
Of course, in a DC comic, Jonn would lose in seconds, due to DD being Supermans big bad, and we can't have Supermans foes being handled by lesser characters, now can we??
That doesn't hold sway here though.
Could he at least beat DOS Doomsday??
Martian Manhunter is immensely powerful. One of the best of DC. But, Doomsday is up there as well. At his best, Doomsday has shown feats of strength and durability MM never could. It's 100% raw strength that makes Doomsday so dangerous. MM's telepathy won't work here, considering that Doomsday is never effected by it. And speed won't work either since Doomsday has shown himself to be quick enough to snag the Flash(non uber) at one point. So MM is not going to be able to do anything here. It's like making a Wolverine vs. Spiderman thread. There will be those that think Wolvie could win, but Spiderman has not only won before, but is also lightyears above Wolverine at all times. Same thing here.
Originally posted by Ultraman Baltan
No need for fire, since Doomsday is durable enough to take MM hits and enough strength to dish it out times two.
I see nobody has countered my mass stealing argument either.
Originally posted by Validus
Name the times DD has fought a smart J'onn. Hell, the only time he's fought a smart anyone was Superman in Hunter/Prey.
Better yet show the times Jonn has shown any type of chance against DD...or that he has a snowballs chance in hell of hurting him.
We both know he can't stay intangible forever..and even if he could...it wouldn't protect him for long.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Better yet show the times Jonn has shown any type of chance against DD...or that he has a snowballs chance in hell of hurting him.We both know he can't stay intangible forever..and even if he could...it wouldn't protect him for long.
When Plastic Man and Fernus fought, both were nigh immune to punches because of their shape shifting. What's to stop J'onn from repeating that here? That's right, nothing. DD beating J'onn relies on either J'onn jobbing or DD displaying powers he never has before. J'onn beating DD simply relies on him being smart. That's the difference here.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Better yet show the times Jonn has shown any type of chance against DD...or that he has a snowballs chance in hell of hurting him.
Originally posted by Validus
I'm not talking about being intangible. I'm talking about pure shape shifting here.When Plastic Man and Fernus fought, both were nigh immune to punches because of their shape shifting. What's to stop J'onn from repeating that here? That's right, nothing. DD beating J'onn relies on either J'onn jobbing or DD displaying powers he never has before. J'onn beating DD simply relies on him being smart. That's the difference here.
The fact that Jonn isn't Fernus is one reason. The fact that multiple comics have shown Jonn on the losing end is another, and lastly the fact that Doomsday adapts to any opponent is another.
While Fernus was having problems with Plastic man...Doomsday nearly ripped him in half while barely trying.
Originally posted by Validus
This type of logic is why Hulk/Wolverine threads can go 20 pages.
Agreed. Especially when on panel proof shows DD as the clear victor more than once.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
The fact that Jonn isn't Fernus is one reason.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
The fact that multiple comics have shown Jonn on the losing end is another
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
lastly the fact that Doomsday adapts to any opponent is another.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
While Fernus was having problems with Plastic man...Doomsday nearly ripped him in half while barely trying.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Agreed. Especially when on panel proof shows DD as the clear victor more than once.
Oh agreed 100%! Deathstroke > JLA ✅
"No enemy can beat DD twice....except the Kryptonian who's done it 3 times. Nobody else I swear!"
Originally posted by Validus
What shape shifting feat did Fernus accomplish that J'onn couldn't? None.
Fernus was portrayed as much more powerful than Jonn himself...
He still had issues with Plastic Man as where Doomsday didn't.
DD owned multiple Imperiex probes. MM owned by 1 probe who was fighting the rest of the JLA singlehandedly.
Originally posted by Validus
Oh so Wolverine really can best Namor? Can Supergirl really punk the JLA? Come on man, you're better than that.
Debate Wolvie logic at your own risk... You're better than that...
Originally posted by Validus
Which I already said is the only way he can beat a smart J'onn but make no mistake that no power he's display thus far is enough to beat the Manhunter with no PIS/CIS involved.
Even a "smart" Jonn can either go intangible in which DD will eventually adjust or he can physically attack DD in many ways which means DD demolishes him. No other way around it.
Originally posted by Validus
Yeah, he stretched PM about 6 ft. Meanwhile we've seen Eel hit skyscraper height with no problem at all. No jobbing involved in that one. 😐
Either way it still happened. Would you liked to have seen multiple panels of DD running around stretching him? Admittedly, it would have been hilarious...
Originally posted by Validus
Oh agreed 100%! Deathstroke > JLA ✅
Whatever floats your boat my friend. 🙂 Poor Kyle...
Originally posted by Validus
"No enemy can beat DD twice....except the Kryptonian who's done it 3 times. Nobody else I swear!"
And a Martian with a 0/3 record against him. Gooooooo Jonn!!!
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Fernus was portrayed as much more powerful than Jonn himself...
He still had issues with Plastic Man as where Doomsday didn't.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
DD owned multiple Imperiex probes. MM owned by 1 probe who was fighting the rest of the JLA singlehandedly.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Debate Wolvie logic at your own risk... You're better than that...
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Even a "smart" Jonn can either go intangible in which DD will eventually adjust or he can physically attack DD in many ways which means DD demolishes him. No other way around it.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Either way it still happened. Would you liked to have seen multiple panels of DD running around stretching him? Admittedly, it would have been hilarious...
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
And a Martian with a 0/3 record against him. Gooooooo Jonn!!!
Originally posted by Validus
The only thing more powerful about Fernus was his phasing ability. Outside of that he didn't do anything special that J'onn couldn't except for the pyro stuff I guess.
Jonn can't cheerfully kill tons of white martians effortlessly.
Originally posted by Validus
Imperiex probes and pretty much everything in OWAW were all over the map in power level.
WW beat that same probe going all out with a magical weapon and almost died.
Originally posted by Validus
Doesn't have to be Wolverine. You're acting like jobbing doesn't exist in comics when we both know it does. Otherwise, Batman really does have a good shot at herald level beings.
We also both know that Jonn hasn't won any battles vs Doomsday, and barely any worth a damn. This is a vs battle, not a drive for making real world rules in comics.... men don't fly in tights into the sun.
Originally posted by Validus[/B][/QUOTE]
I don't know why you keep bringing up intangibility. I haven't argued for it once. My offensive strategy for J'onn simply relied on his mass stealing ability increasing his already Class 100 strength to unheard of levels. Easily beyond the Kryptonian which DD can't seem to best.
The same kryptonians who have owned Jonn again and again. We both know this. Any issue where DD has "lost" to a kryptonian is one where Jonn has lost to DD. You take the good, you take the bad...you take them both, and there you have...
As for the mass stealing... he isn't going to be morphing, intangible, and stealing mass. He'll be KO'd on the spot. We both know Jonn can't keep this stuff up forever anyway. Even if he does steal mass..so what? Nothing in Martian physiology has proven to be anywhere equal to Doomsdays physiology.
Originally posted by Validus
A lot of dumb shit happens in comics. Doesn't change the fact that it's dumb and spits on Plastic Man's abilities.
So Plastic man is more powerful than Fernus, Doomsday, standard MM, Wonder woman, Green Lantern...where have I been?
Dumb shit is correct... from now on, we'll just let ol' EEL handle all the cosmic menaces.
Originally posted by Validus
You don't seem to understand this forum fight isn't being written by Joe Casey or Jeph Loeb.
It's also not being written by Writer: A.J. Lieberman or Joe Kelly.
By the logic here, MM beats Thanos as well then.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Jonn can't cheerfully kill tons of white martians effortlessly.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
WW beat that same probe going all out with a magical weapon and almost died.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
We also both know that Jonn hasn't won any battles vs Doomsday, and barely any worth a damn. This is a vs battle, not a drive for making real world rules in comics.... men don't fly in tights into the sun.The same kryptonians who have owned Jonn again and again. We both know this. Any issue where DD has "lost" to a kryptonian is one where Jonn has lost to DD. You take the good, you take the bad...you take them both, and there you have...
You're also being a hair bit hypocritical here. J'onn using his powerset intelligently is a no go but Superman using T-Vo on people in other threads is a-ok? Guaranteed J'onn has shape shifted more than Superman has used T-Vo.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
As for the mass stealing... he isn't going to be morphing, intangible, and stealing mass. He'll be KO'd on the spot.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
We both know Jonn can't keep this stuff up forever anyway.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Even if he does steal mass..so what?
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
So Plastic man is more powerful than Fernus, Doomsday, standard MM, Wonder woman, Green Lantern...where have I been?Dumb shit is correct... from now on, we'll just let ol' EEL handle all the cosmic menaces.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
It's also not being written by Writer: A.J. Lieberman or Joe Kelly.
Lieberman and Kelly are hacks so I hope not. Hopefully it's written by someone with respect for J'onn's powers and no jobbing agenda to make Superman look like number one.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
By the logic here, MM beats Thanos as well then.
Originally posted by Validus
Says what? He knocked out a bunch of them with casual ease. Fortunately for them, he isn't a murderer.
Yup. That must be why the rest of the league was needed. Try again.
Originally posted by Validus
Good for WW.
Yes...and bad for MM.
Originally posted by Validus
Doomsday can kick J'onn's ass in every page of every comic released from now until the end of days. Won't mean shit for a forum fight if all of them have J'onn forget half his powerset.You're also being a hair bit hypocritical here. J'onn using his powerset intelligently is a no go but Superman using T-Vo on people in other threads is a-ok? Guaranteed J'onn has shape shifted more than Superman has used T-Vo.
When Jonn gets a win record anywhere near Supermans, get back to me. Oh, that's right...his record against Kryptonians is even worse than DD's.
Originally posted by Validus
Why? DD will speedblitz him? 😂
He's done it already. On panel. We both know this.
Originally posted by Validus
Doesn't need to. This take 2 minutes of his day.
Might be the longest he's lasted so far...a new record for Jonn!
Originally posted by Validus
Doomsday gets his ass kicked. Duh.
Sure. The day I see your name under the comic title. Guess that won't be happening anytime soon.
Originally posted by Validus
Plastic Man and the Manhunter just so happen to have a powerset that makes bricks (like DD) all but useless against them.
I'm sure the Radiant and Darkseid thought the same thing. PM has already been owned. Nuff said.
Originally posted by Validus
Lieberman and Kelly are hacks so I hope not. Hopefully it's written by someone with respect for J'onn's powers and no jobbing agenda to make Superman look like number one.
Attacking the writers. Wow, this is what the forums have come to.
Originally posted by Validus
Thanos controls cosmic energy which can be put to many uses. Doomsday....can punch stuff.
Manipulate energy, evolve on the fly, and apparently kick MM's ass on every occasion they've met.
