hahaha soooo true. these movies are JOHNNY'S in my opinion.
Jack definately knew what was in the chest, and he DID NOT lie about it to Will. What HE SAID was "I did not. I didn't know where the key was." AKA: he knew ALL ABOUT the chest, all about the key, and already had his plan on how to get out of paying his debt. THE ONLY thing he needed to know from Tia was whether or not Davy had the key himself.
If you notice the lead in conversation to them going to Tia's, its very interesting. Jack only instructs Gibbs to go towards HER after he and Will have a chat about Elizabeth, the EITC, and the fact that Will needs Jack's help.
Jack sees an oppurtunity that a plan that was probably on his mind might work--- because he has leverage--- and people who will help him.
i think the trip to Tia's was mainly about the black spot for Jack... honestly. I think he knew Tia would eventually find it and help him with it--- cause thats the thing thats keeping him from finding the chest right now. AND he wanted to know what the hell was up with the compass.
he brought the rest of the crew along so they could think it was their idea to kill Davy Jones or whatever.
and i think he wanted Will to meet Tia. I think he saw a resemblence between Will and Liz, and Davy and Tia, right away... and wanted to see if Tia saw it as well.
I think Tia may see Will as her salvation, in that if he kills DJ she will be able to return to the sea. Will does not have that mystical quality about him that Jack has and that comes from Jack having been in some deep poo-poo with Tia.
The reason I came to this conclusion is that if Tia also told Beckett about the compass she has told Beckett to take posession of the heart thereby locking DJ forever away in the underworld. Maybe she sees another way to keep DJ gone forever is to hook up with Will's destiny.
The letters of Marque are for CAPTAIN Jack Sparrow and not for anyone else thus if he comes in and takes them and gives up the sea and his compass to Beckett then he is free to go. And Beckett will rule DJ forever in whatever purgatory.
Norrington has to die in order for Beckett to get the Letters of Marque voided before King George finds out or Beckett is in deep poo. IMO Becketts side deal with Tia is just that, Becketts greedy side deal.
IMO since Tia cannot go to sea anymore and has no way of summoning Jack to her, she in a side deal with Beckett had the "marriage interrupted or fate intervenes" knows Jack will come back to her for help because of his love for Lizzy. She further seals Will's destiny by directing them to the Flying Dutchman and ultimately Will's father. Beckett cannot let King George know what he is doing in the Caribbean or he would not have directed Mr. Mercer to kill the captain of the ship sailing for England with Governor Swann's note. And Beckett grants Gov Swann some leniency when he agrees to give his support of Beckett and the EITC in Port Royal as well as England. Beckett has to kill Gov Swann to keep him from getting word to the King about Beckett's duplicity.
but then i wonder, if we say that Tia knows that Jack comes back to her to ask for help because he loves Liz, then it's against LovelyOne...because if Tia knows that Jack loves her(liz) real then it is stupid to offer him immorality (alright we don't know for sure) but she must know then that he'll refuse it. or did I missunderstood you?
hmmm.... i dont think tia will offer Jack immortality... thats just me. I dont think that goes with the tone of the films.
if liz and jack dont end up together, we should all have a bonfire and sing this song while we have rum and smores to ease our sorrows: (its ra lomantagne and its amazing)
Well the truth it fell so heavy
Like a hammer through the room
That I could choose another over her
You always said I was an actor, baby
Guess in truth you thought me just amateur
That you never saw the signs
That you never lost your grip
Oh, come on now
That's such a childish claim
Now I wear the brand of traitor
Don't it seem a bit absurd
When it's clear I was so obviously framed
When it's clear I was so obviously framed
Now you act so surprised
To hear what you already know
And all you really had to do was ask
I'd have told you straight away
All those lies were truth
And all that was false was fact
Now you hold me close and hard
But I was like a statue at most
Refusing to acknowledge you'd been hurt
Now you're clawing at my throat
And you're crying all is lost
But your tears they felt so hot upon my shirt
But your tears they felt so hot upon my shirt
Well the truth it fell so heavy
Like a hammer through the room
That I could choose another over her
You always said I was an actor, baby
Guess in truth you thought me just amateur
Was it you who told me once
Now looking back it seems so real
That all our mistakes are merely grist for the mill
So why is it now after I had my fill
That you steal from me the sorrow that I've earned
Shall we call this a lesson learned?
Shall we call this a lesson learned?
why are you still so pessimistic? I think we have good arguments why they should be together like we all discussed and unless we know nothing for sure, we should be optimistic...it's the better way to look about life!
and if not, we'll drink all the rum and send the price we payed for our bottles to Disney and want the money back, it was against our frustration!!
I think Tia knows everything that goes on with Jack. She knows about the compass not working, the black spot, she even knew he was on his way to see her (by the lack of surprise on her face). That was the main reason Jack did not want to see her. He knew she would instantly know why that blasted compass did not work. I still feel she had something to do with "marriage interrupted, fate intervened".
well im not 100% convinced that it was Tia who was invloved in the marriege interrupted. but she might be part of it-just might. i dont think tia controls fate nor destiny, even though shes a voodoo chik. I personally think that she just see the person u are inside, what ur desire is, and what u truley CAN be in the future. with tht tia guides them and helps them make a choice.
the choice of making is up to that person to make, it has to come within.
they, well us too, make their OWN choice which will leave them to their destiny made by that person. tia is just a guide and gives u choices, but she doesnt control destiny.
Someone needs to go to KTTC and reference this site so T & T will come view our discusssions. I heard somewhere they will be filming 3 til sometime in Dec/January. Thats a long time after all the other filming they have done. T & T have said they didn't even have an end to COTBP until the last day to shoot and that morning was when they added Jack's line "Bring me that horizon, and really bad eggs" and Johnny came up with that. They said that was the 3rd hardest line to write in the whole movie.
Wonder what the first two were. Hmm.
Here are my thoughts on Tia/Jack/Liz/Will.
I don't see much significance in Jack only agreeing to help after hearing Liz is in jail. He kids about it in fact and says she has to take responsibility for her actions. He's has all the faith in the world nothing is going to happen to her. But he's not in love with her. I think by the end of one, he realized he was attracted to her and could admire and respect her, but little else.
I think it's the fact Will shoved himself into his business. Jack saw an opportunity. He knows he and Will are stronger together than they are apart, and he went to see Tia about removing the black spot before going after the chest. He wanted a quick fix and wanted Will to know the story. And also he wanted to know where the key was.
He doesn't plan on leaving Will on the Flying Dutchman because he thinks his compass will lead him to the chest and Will will get the key.
As for Tia, I'm not convinced she's on anyone's side. If she wants Jack, why would she cause Will and Liz's wedding to be interrupted? If she wants Jack and Liz to be together, then 1. how does she know about Liz in the first place? 2. that's a huge assumption she and Beckett are making, that Liz and Jack are into each other, 3. we have no proof Beckett or anyone else saw her before Jack came to see her, and 4. She's untameable. I can't see her joining forces with anyone.
tia is not responsible in fates and destiny. shes a voodoo chik and she can only see u and guide u. but she doesnt control u and chooses ur destiny.
i think at the cannibals scene when jack saw will he was like ''eh'' and probably told the cannibals to throw him in some dungeon or worse. until when will mentioned elizabeth being in trouble, jack looked like he changed his plans and told them to put will into the ball cage thingy where hes crew was. i think he was depending only on wil to help him escape from the cannibals as will helped him escape in the first movie.
jack helped will when jack discovered hes bootstraps only child. jack helped will in a way when he found out liz was in trouble. but i doubt he was ready to scarifice for her there since he was still unsure of his feelings towards liz. but i dont think the liz in trouble thing impacted him as much..since he was like loving/hating her bc shes gonna marry will and she seduced on the island and making him not know his course lol.
well i have to disagree with you ckiki mina in that first part...I htink Tia does have control in their destinys in SOME SORT of way...i mean thats probably what the Jack voodoo doll means....she is the creepy voodoo lady so of course it would belong to her. So i htink she has a little power over peeople's destinys