DMC= plan to get Liz/Jack Together

Originally posted by katelovespirate
yeah this is a great thread. it makes tons of sense.

they bring a lot of lines about "destiny" and "fate" into this film... so in the world they have created, fate functions like an outer character, and many events they accredit to "fate". the locus of control revolves around this idea of "fate".

so the events of two--- which some people try to pass off as coincidence or explain away as character motivation junk--- are events caused by this "FATE" they keep bringing up. Looking at it this way, its easy to see that Liz teamed up with Jack NOT ONLY because she was trying to find Will, but because it was FATE... (a writing device used to say that the writers are basically hemming the characters in, blocking off their paths so they end up doing certain things, like kissing each other and then chaining someone to a mast...) its just one "FATEFUL" thing after another... like Will showing up on the beach at just the right moment, Norrington joining them, and Most hugely... Beckett arriving on the MORNING OF their wedding to arrest them.

those arent just plot coincidences they get away with cause its a film--- they have created the subtext of FATE and DESTINY and therefore all those actions and events have deeper meaning and are LEADING UP to something big.

TIA DAHMA LOL..

sums all of these things up.

You also have to look at the fact they are introducing a character called Calypso. The goddess of the sea.

This is a greek goddess. And the only other story I have ever seen her is is the Odyssey written in ancient times..and what we actually see emotionally happen to Jack basically mirrors what happened to Odysseus when it came to being around women...she basically changed his whole perspective of them and how he should behave around them..and hello what do we see happen to Jack in DMC?

Also..this whole fate/ destiny thing Katelovespirate I totally agree with you..and when you look at ancient Greek literature..the most interesting ones are the greek tragedies..and they are ALL based around fate and what people choose to do..divine providence etc..(we actually hear Ragetti SAY these two words in the long boat)

Calypso/Tia is probably making events happen so that certain emotions can arise through Jack/Liz/Will..She's defiantly trying to make something happen in the future and I think Beckett is in on the deal.

I read so many tragedies in college..and honestly..this whole fate, intervention theme..and all the events we see happen? Its all leading to tragedy for one character..and IMO its Will.

and when I say tragedy..It means two things..something tragic happens to him(dramatic realization) and then he does something incredibly stupid either to himself or someone else...or even both..

Oedipus...look up that name and read about him lol..it aint pretty

I think Will is heading for a similar fate..

i like the reference to pintel and ragetti.

that scene is kind of important, IMO...
there's a reason they were given lots of "comic relief" time with wierd conversations that didnt seem to fit with the rest of pacing... but it was all important.

its the conflict of "divine Providence" and "me being clever"

the characters are realizing more and more that they cant control everything around them-- that there is something else influencing events and stuff--- this idea of "divine providence" or "fate" or whatever. But some of the characters still are arguing that its just them being clever, or doing things themselves or whatever.

the 3rd one, IMO, will cross way over into the fate edge of the map... so to speak... because they are going to be REVERSING fate by bringing Jack back...

Reversing fate?..I dont think that was the fateful ending we are expecting

Tia made that happen to jack IMO

..its to make him stronger for the future..

the most important aspect of the fateful ending in DMC appears to be breaking Will and Liz up..not Jack dying IMO

Its actually revolving around William..he is going to have a tragic fate. IMO

basically what I'm trying to say..Jack dying there was not a fateful ending..it was only an event leading up to what his real ending will be..because the story hasn't finished yet we still have movie 3..I think we will learn how important that death was to what ever ending he meets in movie 3

the real, real ending the tragic one all points to Will

he is the one with a "touch of destiny" aout him lol

Originally posted by LovelyOne
LOL you as a star wars fans should know 😄..as soon as Luke has a new priority/challenge *cough* darth/dad*cough* Leia completely gets written away from him...and ends up with Hans Solo

read this already? http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f69/t421889.html

😄

KLP>> he totally is... and no, i'm not gonna kill you, just hit you with a hammer that's all.. 🙂 bangin 😄

done.. you're forgiven lol

Originally posted by LovelyOne
basically what I'm trying to say..Jack dying there was not a fateful ending..it was only an event leading up to what his real ending will be..because the story hasn't finished yet we still have movie 3..I think we will learn how important that death was to what ever ending he meets in movie 3

the real, real ending the tragic one all points to Will

he is the one with a "touch of destiny" aout him lol

^^ so true!

Ok lets look back to movie one...

Who was it we all wanted Liz to be with? Will....but she was with (well not really but kinda in a way) Norrington, but taht all changed by the end...

Now lets look at movie 2...

Who did we all want Liz to end up with? Jack!.....but she is already with Will...and movie 2 still isnt quite finished yet, cuz i mean movie 3 is supposed to finish off everything that was happeneing in movie 2 so movie 3 is basically movie 2. does that make anysense? lol itsk inda confusing. so anywayz...Liz changes her mind alot in the movies as we have seen, but she hasnt FULLY gone over to Jack's side yet, because he is ya know dead. but at the end of movie 3 she will probably FULLY go over to Jack's side, once she realizes that its ok because its what she really wants. After all that is what she did with Will so why should it be any different with Jack

im still gonna stick by what T&T said in their interview about if the second film was the ending then they would be happy with it (which hints at what will happen in the end anyway?)

Like Lovelyone said, its where they are mentally that counts at the end...and that is what the writers are pointing at.

So technically if movies 2 ended the way it did and there was no 3...will got elizabeth physically, but jack got her mentally...and the mentally is always the most important thing.

So yes, DMC IS a movie to inevitably get jack/liz together...aswell as being a pirate movie, very well realised!!! you are alot smarter than me!! 🙂
But as i have said before...lets not go all dawson's creek on eachother..remember it is a pirate movie and not gone with the wind.... lmao 😄 as i often forget myself!

hahah yes thats true! i know it is a pirate movie...but its also dealing with their life...like everyone's life they deal with problems like this....so they have to think about the life problems in the movie also because if they didnt then the movie would just be boring because all thye owuld be doing is searching for treasure without worrying sbout anything else...does taht make sense?

Originally posted by CaptinJackLover
hahah yes thats true! i know it is a pirate movie...but its also dealing with their life...like everyone's life they deal with problems like this....so they have to think about the life problems in the movie also because if they didnt then the movie would just be boring because all thye owuld be doing is searching for treasure without worrying sbout anything else...does taht make sense?

that makes absolute perfect sense, and the reason WHY this film is so popular is because the characters ARE intergeral to the story.

Many films i have seen are your two dimensional (only so much you can do with them) characters...like neo from the matrix.

and this film breaks the mould because the character boundaries are endless.

In film/media studies there different character roles that the characters have to fill...but this movie changes the characters so often that it is often hard to realise who is doing what and who is really thinking what, which means that it is hard to put the characters under one particular character role.

THAT is why this film sells. The characters are different and they will go down in history.

What i meant before about it being a 'pirate movie' was the fact that a large percent of the fans who will see this (like my 7 yearold brother) film will go to watch the ship and the guns and the fights...but interestingly enough....they will also go to see JACK frollicking about...

The fights and the ships and the JACK sell this movie.

Everyone wants to see what will happen with JACK...will he win? Will lose? ...

But the big questoin is;

what is it that he will win or lose?

yeah the writeres of the movie had said that they hwanted to make the movie interesting enough to entertaon the audience and the only way to do that is keeping adding htings that would or might happen to people in real life to make it more and more confusing but easy enough to undertsnad whats going on

god bless those writers! 🙂

For making us all the more confused whenever we even THINK about jack/liz because they wont even give us ONE bloody interview!! ...so they leave us hanging like maggots on a fishing line...(sorry for the odd referrance but atm thats exactly how i feel!)

hahaahha

the only way to make us confused and unaware of whats going to happen is keep adding more conflicts and "drama" into the story...and its working, cuz we still dont know whats gonna happen, we THINK and WANT liz and jack to happen but with the way they are writing...you jsut never know

Originally posted by CaptinJackLover
hahaahha

the only way to make us confused and unaware of whats going to happen is keep adding more conflicts and "drama" into the story...and its working, cuz we still dont know whats gonna happen, we THINK and WANT liz and jack to happen but with the way they are writing...you jsut never know

ah so true CJL..we never know what to expect.

But then thats just down to the writers doing a thoroughly bloody good job 🙂 ...i take my imaginary hat off to them 🙂

i wonder if the writers THINK and WANT jack/liz to happen? 😕

i mean disney and T&T TOTALLY contradict eachother...T&T say never have a storybook ending...and DISNEY do NOTHING BUT storybook endings...

so who will win???

But then again...im sure disney LOVE jack (who doesnt?!) so may be they would want to see jack/liz together? ...dont disney win overall?

Ahhh! see!!! im confuzzled again now 🙁

help 😕

ok well what i htink is that they will even out each other because they will most likely NOT come to an agreement....if Jack and Liz end up together, in a way its a storybook ending because Jack is the main charatcer and he is in love, but normally people wouldnt htink of it that way, so in a way its both kind of endings...but if Liz and Will end up together then it most definatley will be storybook ending and we dont want that

Originally posted by CaptinJackLover
ok well what i htink is that they will even out each other because they will most likely NOT come to an agreement....if Jack and Liz end up together, in a way its a storybook ending because Jack is the main charatcer and he is in love, but normally people wouldnt htink of it that way, so in a way its both kind of endings...but if Liz and Will end up together then it most definatley will be storybook ending and we dont want that

ah yes that very true!

But also, if the will/liz ending happens then the audience will throw a wobbler! (me included hehe)

So either way we wont know...ALTHOUGH the storybook ending kinda happened in 1 with will/liz...in 2 it was all up in the air and although there was a kiss...it deffinately WAS NOT a storybook ending....

so three leaves us with??... ah...to bookend, or not to bookend...that is the confuzzlement!!!!! 😕

well yes it kinda happened in one but it didn tendwith one because now there is a 2 so it isnt over yet! although movie 1 did end like that, that was all ruined in 2!

Originally posted by CaptinJackLover
well yes it kinda happened in one but it didn tendwith one because now there is a 2 so it isnt over yet! although movie 1 did end like that, that was all ruined in 2!

yes thats a really good point!

I think we need to look at the BIG movie overall..its a BIG film with 3 chapters...and each is going to be different.

i keep thinking of potc1 as a stand alone and the other-two as a 2part film..for the life of me i cant explain why...probably because the 1st one was complete to the extent that there was a beginning, a middle and an end...

whereas if you put all three together...we've witnessed the beginning, the middle - and it was HOTT - ... and i just hope to god they carry this on through the end of the BIG film.

yeah i never really htought about them all being onbe long story at first, but then i kept having to refer to movie one to thik about hwat happens in movie 2 and thats when i began looking at them as one large story

me too!