Why atheism?

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura

The likelihood of intelligent aliens? Not impossible. The likelihood of super advanced sci-fi like aliens? Extremely low.

Im talking about God like aliens.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura

Ummm. Science? Bacteria would not be classed as intelligent? Because, you know, it's not.
First of all - it is not subjective. Bacteria does not meet any of the criteria to qualify as possessing the most rudimentary intelligence.

Well from what I can see what Regret has to say its subjective. I have looked at both arguments and both point seem to be valid

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura

Insect intelligence is a whole different kettle of fish. And once again is not comparable to human intelligence. It isn't as simple as saying "well, out there there might be aliens who are, in terms of intelligence, like humans while we would be like bacteria. Or insects." And typically ants don't think about the weather.

The point is this insects are intelligent. Do insects know what humans are. If I put my foot in front of an ant is it going to think that a human being has put a foot in front of me.......or........there is something in my way?

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura

As to aliens more intelligent to us? Not impossible. However the claim they are a "likely possibility" is far from true. It would be "an extremely unlikely possibility."

Doesn't work like that. And there could be things higher then humans. Heavens above humanity today could be considered higher then those desperate humans 50,000 years ago. But it isn't as simple as comparing insects and humans.

Why doesn't it work like that? If you look at a flight of stairs do you think that it goes down or up? If you look at nature and see that there are different lifeforms some more advanced than others it is as simple as that to think that there are more advanced lifeforms than humans. The likely conclusion is that there are lifeforms more advanced than us its just that we cant comprehend them, the same way an ant cannot comprehend what a human is.

Originally posted by ThePittman

It is very logical to believe in a higher life form without believing in God. One is that the concept of God is out of the scope of normal reason, that one thing/person created all and has control over all that is, will be and ever was.

How is it beyond the scope of normal reason. You understand the concept of god dont you?

Originally posted by ThePittman

Human only use about 10% of their brain, it is unknown of the abilities or knowledge that one can do if using all of the brainpower. Even with the discussion about intelligence an ant looking at a human could be a God, but are humans Gods? It only makes since that there is something higher then humans, humans may eventually evolve past where we are now or there could be another leap in evolution and we have something better or different.

I dont understand it. If there are lifeforms more advanced than humans then there will be lifeforms that are even more advanced, the logical conclusion is that at some point there will be some all powerful being, but I dont think we would be able to fully comprehend it but have some understanding.

The point is that God didn’t evolve or become this way, he has always been. God is supposed to be the beginning and the end and there was nothing before him and was never created, this is why God doesn’t fit into this kind of logic.

Now a being evolving to the point of having “God like powers” is within this reasoning but they still wouldn’t fit into this concept of God. We would have God like powers compared to an ant but not to a monkey and we were created and evolved and yes I understand what God is and that is why I believe he doesn’t exist.

Originally posted by ThePittman
The point is that God didn’t evolve or become this way, he has always been. God is supposed to be the beginning and the end and there was nothing before him and was never created, this is why God doesn’t fit into this kind of logic.

Now a being evolving to the point of having “God like powers” is within this reasoning but they still wouldn’t fit into this concept of God. We would have God like powers compared to an ant but not to a monkey and we were created and evolved and yes I understand what God is and that is why I believe he doesn’t exist.

Its not illogical different creatures have different perceptions of time and space. Some insects live for en entire day but they probably perceive it as a lifetime. Dogs see in black and white. A highier lifeform would precieve time and space differently making it eternal.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Its not illogical different creatures have different perceptions of time and space. Some insects live for en entire day but they probably perceive it as a lifetime. Dogs see in black and white. A highier lifeform would precieve time and space differently making it eternal.

Originally posted by ThePittman
However God said that he was the Alpha and the Omega, he was the beginning and the end of all so this by what the Bible says is not our interruption but the word of God. This is the point that I’m saying, could there be a being evolved enough to do unbelievable things, yes but they would still not be in the concept of God.

Well im a heathen (norse pagan) anyway, so I dont completely follow the Biblical concept of God. Im just saying it is not improbable to belive in an eternal or infinite being. Forget the Bible im just trying to be objective here.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Well im a heathen (norse pagan) anyway, so I dont completely follow the Biblical concept of God. Im just saying it is not improbable to belive in an eternal or infinite being. Forget the Bible im just trying to be objective here.

Originally posted by ThePittman
I have never said that a being couldn’t evolve into a God like being or to the point of becoming immortal like but that still wouldn’t count them as being God. They would even be like an ant to us; would they deserve my respect for what they could do, sure. That doesn’t mean I need or required to worship them; God however requires this because of “what” he/she is the same with most other deities.

Yes thats all true. I am also saying that it is possible for there to be a lifeform that is eternal and infinite due to its perception of time and space, therefore it has not needed to evolve.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Yes thats all true. I am also saying that it is possible for there to be a lifeform that is eternal and infinite due to its perception of time and space, therefore it has not needed to evolve.

Originally posted by ThePittman
That still doesn't make it "God" though

Hmmm ok, I thought it did. What exactly is your defintion of God? That was my defintion of God.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Hmmm ok, I thought it did. What exactly is your defintion of God? That was my defintion of God.

Originally posted by ThePittman
God from my definition is the creator of all, the beginning of everything and the end of all. Created everything from the stars to the universe to all life throughout, how everything works from bacteria to how the planets revolve around the stars.

Well if a lifeform was eternal and infinte wouldnt that make it responsible for the creation of everything by default?

Originally posted by Alfheim
Well if a lifeform was eternal and infinte wouldnt that make it responsible for the creation of everything by default?

Originally posted by ThePittman
No because that is not what the concept of “God” is, there was nothing before God and God didn’t evolve he just was. Could a being have the technology to create planets and the stars and seed life on a planet, I say yes but that still doesn’t make them God just someone really smart and powerful.

Yeah but if you are infinite, that means you would be everywhere. That means you would be resposnible for everything. 😕

P.S. Im kinda tired right now, maybe thats why I dont understand.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Yeah but if you are infinite, that means you would be everywhere. That means you would be resposnible for everything. 😕

P.S. Im kinda tired right now, maybe thats why I dont understand.

Well I'll think it over right now im too tired.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Well I'll think it over right now im too tired.

Originally posted by ThePittman
No because that is not what the concept of “God” is, there was nothing before God and God didn’t evolve he just was. Could a being have the technology to create planets and the stars and seed life on a planet, I say yes but that still doesn’t make them God just someone really smart and powerful.

I can see why someone would be atheist with such an absurd concept of "God".

Originally posted by Alliance
All they studied was chomotaxis. This had been observed for over a century.

The ONLY reference to anything remotely supporting anything you are saying is from the las sentnace of their abstract. "Potential models for the chemotactic response based on some “memory” mechanism are discussed."

The ""memory"" shows me that even they hesitate to actually call it memory, buyt just for the sake of argument...I went to that section of the paper.

They say "they have some sort of "memory" device that compares present and past environmental conentrations" Well, comparing concentrations is not that difficult with a simple receptor.

Its to late for me to read the rest. Its my opinion that nothing they found implies intelligence at all.

The ability to compare, imo, is a primitive and minuscule example of intelligence. Human intelligence is only the ability to do this same thing on a much more complex and grand cell. We have an enormous amount of neurons, and so our capacity is infinitesimally enormous by comparison to a bacteria's capability to compare.

I think that we are not disagreeing necessarily, my definition and understanding of the term intelligence is merely differing from yours. I see simple abilities as present in bacteria as the most primitive form of intelligence. The difference is that my concept of intelligence does not separate man from the bacteria, where it seems that you might give the intelligence of man some type of extra weight. For me, physiological functioning and brain functioning are only instinctual responses that are complex on a scale that makes the overall response product seem to be more grand than that of the bacteria's comparison, when in fact it is only more grand due to capacity. The complexity of the process of reaching the response also makes it seem more grand.

Originally posted by Regret
I have read over your comments, and have decided that my belief as to what God is does not fit your concept of "God". Some very high positioned Mormons have postulated that God was possibly once a man, and as such is literally our, man's, Father. Given this, we, our existence presently, are the early stage of a being with the capability, and potential, to become as our Father is. This potential can only be realized through proper behavior, thus keeping ourselves in line with the requirements inherent in a more Godlike state. God is eternal in the sense that for us, from man's beginning and to man's end, God will and has existed, there will never be a point in our existence when God will not exist and be present. It is my opinion that your concept of "God" as you have described it is a fanciful and rather absurd concept due to the limitations of possible existence and nature. I would be atheist if God was a supernatural entity. God is a being that has attained absolute knowledge, nothing left to learn, his existence is defined and progresses through his children, in this case us, man. This knowledge is beyond our capacity to attain as mortal man, and so it is often referred to as supernatural, but God, imo, is a being that exists within the bounds of law and order, not outside these bounds.

I can see why someone would be atheist with such an absurd concept of "God".

Originally posted by ThePittman
If that is so and he is a man or being that has attended this highest level why does he/she/it deserve to be worshiped? I can see revering this person or following their teachings but worship as a god I can’t see that. Much like a parent to a child they have much more understanding and have lived longer and you should value their teaching and take heed their advice but not worship.

Why do parents deserve respect? IMO, worship is the same as doing what your parents have told you, particularly when you are/were a minor. If your parents are just people, why should you go to school? If your parents are just people, why should you tell them where you go? If your parents are just people, why should you ask for something to eat? We are in the position of a minor in comparison to God, is it not reasonable that we are not told everything. Worship of God should only be an act of love and respect. Everything aside from that is required for some reason to allow us to reach our potential, how it aids us in achieving that potential may be something we don't grasp, but it is in some way a necessity. Very seldom do minors grasp the importance of various requirements that their parents place on them, as a result some minors end up dropping out, not attending college, getting into drugs, etc.

There are things in worship that seem outside this concept: hell, sacrifice, the atonement, Christ's role, among others. These are due to the laws that govern existence. If you do not behave in a manner consistent with a Godlike existence, you will not be able to live a Godlike existence. If you do not do school, and drop out, and never do college, your career opportunities are severely limited. If you break the laws sufficiently, the police will arrest you, you go to jail, and you have a poor state of life. Are these things your parent's fault? No. The same is true of hell, and the level of potential you achieve in heaven, the reward promised in the Bible based on works. Hell is a difficult place to get into, it is probably similar to a minor achieving a life sentence prior to becoming an adult.