new swords men vs drizzt

Originally posted by emporerpants
well, i didn't know about shade. i thought i had read everything there is on drizzt and so on. but what makes you say that artemis is so much more skilled than before? i don't remember anyone saying that he is. just wondering where you came up with the conclusion that he's so much more skilled than he used to be, and drizzt isn't. regardless, if you are correct, which you very well may be, if drizzt and artemis do fight again, i'm sure salvatore will give drizzt some new skills/advantages to put the both of them on even ground again.

I guess you haven't Servant of the Shard, Best of the Realms, Realms of Shadow, Realms of Dragons and Promise of the Witch King then huh? Artemis himself even stats that with each passing day he gets smarter and more skilled to compensate for his deteriorating physical abilities... and then he was deaged, once again operating in his prime. Aged Artemis' battle against Bergin'yon near the end of Servant of the Shard is more impressive then any of Drizzt's to date. It is hardly oppinion that Artemis is better then Drizzt. In Baldur's Gate 2, Artemis had better stats then Drizzt, the D&D Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting confirms this as well.

If you haven't read those books I listed you might want to get on it. The next book in The Sell Swords series is out at the end of the month and judging by the deterioration of Salavatore's righting during the Hunter's Blade trilogy I'd say he has become disinterested with Drizzt and I doubt you will get much of the Dark Elf anytime soon... unless Wizards of the Coast pressures him into it.

Double post

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Do be fair Dantrag lost to Drizzt for the same reason Drizzt wears the Braces of Blinding Strike as anklets, lack of control. The speed makes the sword strikes clumsy and reduces accuracy making them a hindrance against a skilled opponent.

I believe that originally Dark Elves were considered more skilled then D&D player races (as the Drow were created as a villain race for campaign settings) but the rules where changed to incorporate the popularity of Drizzt with out the one sidedness of the abilities of the Drow. They are impressive to be sure but skilled humans, be they fighters or mages, are generally better as they are motivated by their short life spans.

I would also argue your opinion that Drizzt is the best of all Drow. Jarlaxle told Artemis that he had never been beaten by Zaknafein in combat and that Zaknafein hoped one day that Drizzt might be skilled enough to beat Jarlaxle in swords play. Excluding his magical equipment (which are numerous indeed) I would say that Jarlaxle is the most skilled Drow swordsman alive today and he would have been killed in fair combat against a female axe and shield Paladin if it hadn't been for Artemis' intervention.

A globe of darkness wont do much more then give Drizzt a temporary reprive... and thats a assuming that Swordsman doesn't burst out of it instantly. Remember that Drizzt can't see inside the magical globe either and while he is a skilled blind fighter I doubt he would engage Swordsman inside the globe.

... and Artemis is better then Drizzt, all stats compiled confirm this. Artemis was a level 18 character before all of his recent adventures and he has improved dramatically. Drizzt is level 16 and aside from entering his "Hunter" persona he has less skilled then when he left the Underdark. 😉

I think that Swordsman would win... don't know else to say to convince someone other wise.

Good post.

Dantrag was still ridiculously fast. It's to Drizzt's credit that he could keep up, controlled or not.

Globes of darkness can follow their target. Drizzt can create one that locks onto Swordsman. He'll be fighting the entire fight blind. And no, Drizzt can't see either, but he has the luxury of stepping outside the globe and is also incredibly adept at fighting in complete darkness. Advantage, Drizzt.

I didn't know we kept "levels" during novels and such. I find it a little hard to swallow that after multiple fights that ended in a draw, Artemis is suddenly better than him. And video games aren't continuity.

Interesting stuff about Jarlaxle, but irrelevant. Both he and Drizzt have absolutely sick skills.

I'll stand by my assertion, and I feel I've defended it fairly well. You have some good counter points so it's likely we won't see eye-to-eye here.

drizzt also has beyond human hearing. he also seems to have a sick sense that allows him to sense danger. Bruenor also seems to have it.

also how about the hunter?
how does the swords men keep up with the hunter? first you have drizzt a drow elf and as you know elfs are a good deal faster and mroe agile then humans. Then you add in the fact drizzt is at the peak of his abilities. Then you have to add in enchanments due to his anklets. The the fact that when he hunter he fights off instinct making him move even faster

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Good post.

Dantrag was still ridiculously fast. It's to Drizzt's credit that he could keep up, controlled or not.

Globes of darkness can follow their target. Drizzt can create one that locks onto Swordsman. He'll be fighting the entire fight blind. And no, Drizzt can't see either, but he has the luxury of stepping outside the globe and is also incredibly adept at fighting in complete darkness. Advantage, Drizzt.

I didn't know we kept "levels" during novels and such. I find it a little hard to swallow that after multiple fights that ended in a draw, Artemis is suddenly better than him. And video games aren't continuity.

Interesting stuff about Jarlaxle, but irrelevant. Both he and Drizzt have absolutely sick skills.

Can the Globes of Darkness lock on to people? The most recent Salavatore book I read was Promise of the Witchking so thats what freshest in my mind and I remember Jarlaxle placing a globe of darkness around Athrogate and the dwarf just ran right through it.

*shrugs*

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I guess you haven't Servant of the Shard, Best of the Realms, Realms of Shadow, Realms of Dragons and Promise of the Witch King then huh? Artemis himself even stats that with each passing day he gets smarter and more skilled to compensate for his deteriorating physical abilities... and then he was deaged, once again operating in his prime. Aged Artemis' battle against Bergin'yon near the end of Servant of the Shard is more impressive then any of Drizzt's to date. It is hardly oppinion that Artemis is better then Drizzt. In Baldur's Gate 2, Artemis had better stats then Drizzt, the D&D Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting confirms this as well.

If you haven't read those books I listed you might want to get on it. The next book in The Sell Swords series is out at the end of the month and judging by the deterioration of Salavatore's righting during the Hunter's Blade trilogy I'd say he has become disinterested with Drizzt and I doubt you will get much of the Dark Elf anytime soon... unless Wizards of the Coast pressures him into it.

Originally posted by Juntai
Actually I own the Menzoberanzan boxed set, out of print, as well as the Book of the Drow, also out print... the Drizzt portrayed in the Forgotten Realms boxed set is outdated for both characters. Those previous two also fall in line with the Heros of Forgotten Realms and Villains of Forgotten Realms, where they are portrayed as nearly exactly the same. In fact, since all of these publications were before he got artifact of Charrons Claw, Drizzt's had the edge with better weapons and far better armor made by Bruenor. Drizzt also has the edge with what is considered a GODLY amount of Dexterity, in 2nd edition being 20, where as the MAX-- which Artemis had-- a human could ever achieve, was 18. Nearly all of their stats were equal however, Drizzy, according to those other publications managed to go beyond the Ranger bonus', and has managed to become 99% proficient with thief skills like Artemis too. Plus the Dark Elf natural movement rating is 16, and not 12 like a human, thus they are naturally faster. This is only amplified by Drizzt's bracers he stuck on his ancles.

As of 3.5 Artemis stats are:

S: 14
D: 20
Cn: 15
I: 16
W: 16
Ch: 13

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
As of 3.5 Artemis stats are:

S: 14
D: 20
Cn: 15
I: 16
W: 16
Ch: 13

well, i read servant of the shard and promise of the witchking, but not the others. hell, i wasn't aware that they existed. i'll take your word for artemis's abilities, as i haven't read those books yet. are they any good though? would you suggest reading them?

ok, now i remember from promise of the witchking jarlaxle talking about artemis's pale skin, saying it was from absorbing shade's life force, can't believe if forgot that.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Can the Globes of Darkness lock on to people? The most recent Salavatore book I read was Promise of the Witchking so thats what freshest in my mind and I remember Jarlaxle placing a globe of darkness around Athrogate and the dwarf just ran right through it.

*shrugs*

Weird. I remember specifically reading about a locked on one. Might have been in one of the sea-faring ones (where they're on the pirate-hunting ship)

Either a continuity error, or I'm wrong. Either way, it's not a big deal to make lots of them. Locked or not, it's disorienting.

Originally posted by emporerpants
ok, now i remember from promise of the witchking jarlaxle talking about artemis's pale skin, saying it was from absorbing shade's life force, can't believe if forgot that.

The other three are pretty good, but remember they are compilations of short stories from varies authors. It would recommend reading them... but it would have been better to have done it before you read PoWK hehe

Originally posted by capt it up
stats mean shit. bruenor stats make no senses. hell his weapon they say he uses is not the correct weapon. the books and stats do not go to gather

Well Salvatore himself said that he created Artemis to kill Drizzt but his publishers wouldn't let him. Artemis is the more skilled of the two characters but Drizzt's d20 always rolls high lol

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Well Salvatore himself said that he created Artemis to kill Drizzt but his publishers wouldn't let him. Artemis is the more skilled of the two characters but Drizzt's d20 always rolls high lol

I also rember salv saying that "drizzt is the best, but he would not bet against bruenor"

i

Originally posted by capt it up
when did he say this?

I also rember salv saying that "drizzt is the best, but he would not bet against bruenor"

i

Do a search for "Salvatore Interview" or something and you should find it. There are plenty of Forgotten Realms characters that can beat Drizzt but he is the Spider-man/Batman of Faerun and Wizards of the Coast don't want him to lose. Who would win between Drizzt and Bruenor? It wouldn't be much of a fight. Either Drizzt would strike first and win or Bruenor would.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Do a search for "Salvatore Interview" or something and you should find it. There are plenty of Forgotten Realms characters that can beat Drizzt but he is the Spider-man/Batman of Faerun and Wizards of the Coast don't want him to lose. Who would win between Drizzt and Bruenor? It wouldn't be much of a fight. Either Drizzt would strike first and win or Bruenor would.

I could never see Bruenor touching Drizzt, but I'm probably a touch biased there. Still, Bruenor's a brawler. Drizzt should just run circles around him and wear him out.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
I could never see Bruenor touching Drizzt, but I'm probably a touch biased there. Still, Bruenor's a brawler. Drizzt should just run circles around him and wear him out.

bruenor is much faster then you give him cradit of beaing. he took many drows lives.

The problem is that Drizzt can't parry an attack from Bruenor, he lacks the the strength to do so and so he is only left with avoiding it out right. He could try to skirt Bruenor and wear him down but being a dwarf he isn't going to tire before Drizzt does. Being as compact and stout as Bruenor is he has almost zero openings unless he is in mid-swing and if you are in place to exploit them you will likely get clocked from residually momentum left in his swing even if you can explode the opening. IMO Drizzt either kills Bruenor right of the bat or he gets clocked attempting to do so. Drizzt gets the high majority though.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
The problem is that Drizzt can't parry an attack from Bruenor, he lacks the the strength to do so and so he is only left with avoiding it out right. He could try to skirt Bruenor and wear him down but being a dwarf he isn't going to tire before Drizzt does. Being as compact and stout as Bruenor is he has almost zero openings unless he is in mid-swing and if you are in place to exploit them you will likely get clocked from residually momentum left in his swing even if you can explode the opening. IMO Drizzt either kills Bruenor right of the bat or he gets clocked attempting to do so. Drizzt gets the high majority though.

my oppinon drizzt wins 2-4

bruenor wins 2-4

they kill eachother 2-4