2007 Rapture?

Originally posted by Nellinator
'The Signature of God' or my reference book 'The Mysterious Bible Codes' both by Grant R. Jeffrey. It is reliable and peer reviewed work that stands up to scrutiny.

And if something's peer reviewed it must be reliable. Because certainly no peer-reviewed article journal would publish an article on this subject whose conclussion they didn't support. Right?

Is Jeffrey the one who wants to perform analysis on texts that are missing entire pages, but thinks that you can't perform analysis on texts with a few incorrect letters? Or is that just you?

Dear old Grant Jeffrey. His works certainly do stand up to scrutiny, don't they?

Originally posted by Alliance
Nellinator. Can you please respond?

Convince me its real by predicting a specific future event.

Originally posted by Nellinator
Perhaps. But I wouldn't use the Bible Codes to predict future events. As I have said it is against the Bible to do that. I also think God would have planned against anyone ever successfully using it in that way.

Then by your own submission, the Bible codes are bull$hit...if God didn't want them to be figured out, he wouldn't have put them there.

And the Bible Codes should not be used to determine the future because the Bible forbids it.

Where? People fortell the future all the time in the Bible.

Originally posted by Nellinator
Perhaps. But I wouldn't use the Bible Codes to predict future events. As I have said it is against the Bible to do that. I also think God would have planned against anyone ever successfully using it in that way.

Great way to debate, when someone questions and puts you to the test, you claim it shouldn't be done. Can you point out where in the Bible God forbids us to foretell the future? Bible Codes are just another hoax, smoke and mirrors.

Originally posted by Nellinator
Perhaps. But I wouldn't use the Bible Codes to predict future events. As I have said it is against the Bible to do that. I also think God would have planned against anyone ever successfully using it in that way.

Ok, then by your own claims, the future cannot be predicted using the bible. Your claim is not testable or accurate.

Basically, people find what they want and then make up algorithms to attempt to make it seem like prophecy.

Exactly... And to be a true prophecy, it needs to be foretold BEFORE the event happens.

yup.

Originally posted by Robtard
Exactly... And to be a true prophecy, it needs to be foretold [B]BEFORE the event happens. [/B]

Yup.

Originally posted by Robtard
Exactly... And to be a true prophecy, it needs to be foretold [B]BEFORE the event happens. [/B]

Divination (the Hebrew word involves foretelling the future) is condemned. Deuteronomy 18:10-11, Leviticus 19:26, and Isaiah 47:12-13 are a few examples.
Also, there is lots of stuff about false prophets (Jeremiah 23:25-40 as the best example I can think of) and the idiocy of being one. I'm not going to be one. If I were to prophecy it would have to be in the Holy Spirit, but I do not seem to have received that gift. Therefore, I do not prophecy.

This does not disqualify the Bible Codes, however, as they merely show evidence of divine authorship. I do not consider the Bible Codes to be the end all of the discussion of God, but I believe that they provide some very good evidence of divine authorship. I would convinced if I were presented with proof that another book had codes approaching the magnitude of the Bible (and at short ELS intervals) that Bible Codes are false, but I haven't seen other codes stand up to the scrutiny the Bible has.. I gave you an example of Bible Codes, but you have failed to produce a counter example from Moby Dick. I would actually like to see one.

So, which version of Jeremiah do you think we should perform analysis on?

Do you agree with Grant Jeffrey's interpretation of the Second Law of Thermodynamics?

Originally posted by Gregory
So, which version of Jeremiah do you think we should perform analysis on?

Do you agree with Grant Jeffrey's interpretation of the Second Law of Thermodynamics?

And I agree that Grant Jeffrey is too biased and sometimes twists words. He is also not really qualified to be commenting on the implications. However, when I read the book I ignored what he wrote and went straight to the pages with the Hebrew showing the intervals and words. This is what I base my beliefs on the matter on, not on what Grant Jeffrey said.

Speaking of Hebrew .. you remember that there are no vowls in that language, right? (Maybe you even read it?) When you brought up the Isaiah passage, you mentioned how the intervals were lower then anything in Moby Dick; isn't it plausible that if the Torah contains more seemingle impressive codes, it's because the people doing the analysis can stick in vowles wherever they want, whereas people doing the same with Moby Dick or War and Peace can't?

There's also the dedication issue to consider. These people devote their lives to the Bible Code; they can afford to scower the Bible both by computer and by hand looking for the most impressive results; whereas skeptics are much more likely to find a few results and declare, "Well, that's enough of that." (in other words, the people who think they're looking for God's word will devote more time to it then the people who think they're debunking a few harmless crackpots).

Originally posted by lord xyz
It's the same with Nostradamus.

Originally posted by Gregory
Speaking of Hebrew .. you remember that there are no vowls in that language, right? (Maybe you even read it?) When you brought up the Isaiah passage, you mentioned how the intervals were lower then anything in Moby Dick; isn't it plausible that if the Torah contains more seemingle impressive codes, it's because the people doing the analysis can stick in vowles wherever they want, whereas people doing the same with Moby Dick or War and Peace can't?

There's also the dedication issue to consider. These people devote their lives to the Bible Code; they can afford to scower the Bible both by computer and by hand looking for the most impressive results; whereas skeptics are much more likely to find a few results and declare, "Well, that's enough of that." (in other words, the people who think they're looking for God's word will devote more time to it then the people who think they're debunking a few harmless crackpots).

Originally posted by debbiejo
I don't believe people can really make prophecies since every action of someone can alter the reality. Every word, action, and thought. Though I do believe that people can or may get glimpses of the Now.

So then its not a prophecy...its arbitrary attempts by Christians to justify their mythology.

Ancient Hebrew does not have vowels; you don't "randomly stick them in," no, but different strings of consanents can form different words. sheva ("seven"😉 and sava ("he is satisfied"; and no, I don't speak Hebrew, so I'm taking Dr. Strouse word on these interpretations) are differentiated only by Hebrew vowel points. So what I'm talking about is, it's a hell of a lot easier to form words and sentences when you have no context and can stick in vowel markers where you want them.

And I believe that your example from Isaiah was found by hand, as a matter of fact. Certainly one of the major Isaiah "code passages" was.

Originally posted by Gregory
Ancient Hebrew does not have vowels; you don't "randomly stick them in," no, but different strings of consanents can form different words. sheva ("seven"😉 and sava ("he is satisfied"; and no, I don't speak Hebrew, so I'm taking Dr. Strouse word on these interpretations) are differentiated only by Hebrew vowel points. So what I'm talking about is, it's a hell of a lot easier to form words and sentences when you have no context and can stick in vowel markers where you want them.

And I believe that your example from Isaiah was found by hand, as a matter of fact. Certainly one of the major Isaiah "code passages" was.

And I think the ones I mentioned were done with a computer by Yacov Rambsel.

About Rambsel, maybe; I was just going off memory.

Regarding vowles, I didn't mean they were added into the Hewbrew (which doesn't use them; you're right). I mean ... let's take an example in English, because it's easier when we have a language we both speak. Suppose that you tell your computer to start somewhere and take every fifth vowel, and you get, "Jesus is lord."

Now suppose that you're dealing with the same example, except that you don't have any of the English vowles thrown in. You're computer spits out, "Jss s lrd." Jesus is lord? Jess is Lord? Jesus is lard? Any of these phrases are valid readings; but you get to pick the one you want.

And that's why it's easier to find messages in Hebrew then in English.

(There's no real reason you would know this, but I've gotten sort of curious; has anybody subjected nonChristian holy books to this sort of scrutany, and what have they turned up if they have?)