Originally posted by Kas'Im
Plo would own him so badly. ROTJ Luke is a nobody, not even on par with most jedi knights. I'd even go as far to say that TPM Obi-Wan is a good league above Luke, maybe even leagues.
Yet he defeated Dark Jedi in between ESB an ROTJ, and then he defeated Vader.. Yea, REAL loser.
Wow.. LOL..Get something through your skull. Luke had no lightsaber form by ROTJ, it was only after that he perfected his Djem So technique. And as far as i'm concerned, Djem So is just attacking someone with full force and anger, which he didn't do in ESB, and did at the end of ROTJ, so no, he HAS no form because NOBODY taught him one.
Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
plus, dont make that Vader win sound like a magnificent victory. Vader wasnt trying to kill him, and could have many times had he wanted to.
Both the script and the novelisation doesn't mention Vader holding back, rather that they both fought at their fullest. Some magazine (although maybe not as canon) states that it was " a fight between equals"...
Originally posted by kamikz
Both the script and the novelisation doesn't mention Vader holding back, rather that they both fought at their fullest. Some magazine (although maybe not as canon) states that it was " a fight between equals"...
Which version of the script? Does the novel state that he was in fact trying to kill his son that he started caring for? Thats why Palps dispersed the Hands, cause he felt that in Vader and didn't trust him any longer and why he couldn't "feel" that Luke was on the shuttle with Han, when Vader could. Basically, it was Anakin who was sensing Luke, the good man that was still inside wasn't allowing the Darkside to Kill Luke. "That's why you couldn't destroy me before." And why he was constantly calling him "son" with softness in his voice. He didn't want his son to join the darkside, but at the same time he didn't want Palps to kill him for not turning. Thats why he didn't kill him, and why he killed the Emperor.
Vader was holding back, as he wasn't aiming for cutting Luke's body in half. But he was fighting to get Luke in a surrender or die position, which he couldn't get. Vader tried in the end using advanced techniques like fighting while using the Force to beat Luke yet Luke held on. That fact is, that was ESB Luke. ROTJ Luke is even more powerful. I admit Plo wins, but to he mega-pwns Luke is utter foolishness.
Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Which version of the script? Does the novel state that he was in fact trying to kill his son that he started caring for? Thats why Palps dispersed the Hands, cause he felt that in Vader and didn't trust him any longer and why he couldn't "feel" that Luke was on the shuttle with Han, when Vader could. Basically, it was Anakin who was sensing Luke, the good man that was still inside wasn't allowing the Darkside to Kill Luke. "That's why you couldn't destroy me before." And why he was constantly calling him "son" with softness in his voice. He didn't want his son to join the darkside, but at the same time he didn't want Palps to kill him for not turning. Thats why he didn't kill him, and why he killed the Emperor.
Is that your opinion? It doesn't really mention it, it says that they are both fighting at their fullest. Even if I would have remembered it wrong, Luke held back as well since he was actually the one refusing to fight, it was only at the end he struck Vader down. And he DID want Luke to join the dark side, what was the whole speech in the Cloud City for? If he didn't want to kill him he at least fought as good as he could, but he lost.....
Wait, we are not talking about ESB right? Cause then Vader totally held back.
prove it.
yea he wanted to join the darkside in ESB, but thats not ROTJ is it? When he was talking to Luke alone in the hallway on Endor, you could tell he wanted to go with Luke, but the lightside in him wasn't strong enough yet to contend with the darkside. If that was his plan to kill and or turn him, why kill the Emperor? And yea in ESB he mentioned turning him as an alternative to killing him. He just found out the son son he thought was dead was alive, why let Palps kill him? Unless it clearly states he was trying to kill Luke, then its up for speculation. Much like whether or not PLageus created Anakin. GL stated he left that open on purpose for us to decide. Why would that be the only instance?
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Vader did not hold back in ROTJ, what the hell are you talking about?
"it's pointless to resist, son"
"
EMPEROR
If you will not be turned, you will be destroyed.
Blinding bolts of energy, evil lightning, shoot from the Emperor's
hands at Luke. Even in his surprise, the young Jedi tries to use the
Force to deflect them. At first he is half successful, but after a
moment the bolts of energy are coming with such speed and power the
young Jedi shrinks before them, his knees buckling. The wounded Vader
struggles to his feet, and moves to stand at his master's side."
ok this is from the script. The reason I'm bring thins to attention is because it says Luke uses the force to block the lightning and at first is half successful. Now, in the movie nothing like that happened, so this is non-canon since the movie contradicts it. It also said nothing about Vader fighting for his life, fighting his fullest, or anything like that. It does say that Luke forced him back while using his anger and hatred, but thats not what we're debating here. Since there's no undeniable proof that Vader was holding back or fighting full out, we can, like Ush, ASSUME that he was holding back out of some type of love for his son. Correct?
However, Luke held back as much if not more in the beginning. He still kicked Vader down pretty easily, he could have killed him at that point. But he chose to not fight him, and Vader continued the fight. Luke hid and did not want to fight him while Vader encouraged him to fight, and said they could use his sister instead. Luke goes crazy and defeates Vader.
Just saying that Vader wasn't fighting to kill Luke is not enough to say Vader>Luke....
Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
prove it.yea he wanted to join the darkside in ESB, but thats not ROTJ is it? When he was talking to Luke alone in the hallway on Endor, you could tell he wanted to go with Luke, but the lightside in him wasn't strong enough yet to contend with the darkside. If that was his plan to kill and or turn him, why kill the Emperor? And yea in ESB he mentioned turning him as an alternative to killing him. He just found out the son son he thought was dead was alive, why let Palps kill him? Unless it clearly states he was trying to kill Luke, then its up for speculation. Much like whether or not PLageus created Anakin. GL stated he left that open on purpose for us to decide. Why would that be the only instance?
"it's pointless to resist, son"
"
EMPEROR
If you will not be turned, you will be destroyed.Blinding bolts of energy, evil lightning, shoot from the Emperor's
hands at Luke. Even in his surprise, the young Jedi tries to use the
Force to deflect them. At first he is half successful, but after a
moment the bolts of energy are coming with such speed and power the
young Jedi shrinks before them, his knees buckling. The wounded Vader
struggles to his feet, and moves to stand at his master's side."ok this is from the script. The reason I'm bring thins to attention is because it says Luke uses the force to block the lightning and at first is half successful. Now, in the movie nothing like that happened, so this is non-canon since the movie contradicts it. It also said nothing about Vader fighting for his life, fighting his fullest, or anything like that. It does say that Luke forced him back while using his anger and hatred, but thats not what we're debating here. Since there's no undeniable proof that Vader was holding back or fighting full out, we can, like Ush, ASSUME that he was holding back out of some type of love for his son. Correct?
You claim he held back when there was nothing in the script nor the novelization, so the onus is on YOU to prove that he held back
Originally posted by Blue_Hefner
We all know Plo isn't the best swordsman. Just look in AOTC where he gets captured.
Originally posted by Captain REX
For an earlier statement, TPM Qui-Gon and ROTJ Luke are not at all on par...
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
You claim he held back when there was nothing in the script nor the novelization, so the onus is on YOU to prove that he held back