Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
1.)The Nation, settlers and such, were here for RELIGIOUS Freedom, their own ways of Christianity
And Australia's founding had links to do with finding a place to put convicts with the loss of the US. Doesn't mean our founding as a nation has criminal codes or anything like it at its heart.
And I would point out that there is a big difference between people founding colonies and a group of colonies federating into a single nation state. Those original colonies were founded by some fleeing religious persecution - that does not in fact equal the nation being founded on Christian values - just colonies that later federated into a single state.
2.)The Equality stated in that is based on the Bible's saying all people are Equal
Depends on which part of the Bible you want to take literally. Because depending on which part you have certain groups "chosen" - and even not that part you still have the whole - "There are two groups - those saved and those damned. Everyone is damned till they join the saved group."
More than this, but those are off the top of my head
And I dare say every moral in the Bible has at some time be replicated or preceded by philosophy on the subject. Why is it automatically Christian values.
I love how no Athiest can ever Answer WHY it's bad, or reasons for getting rid of it
I found it funny when certain politicians went on about how "disagreeing with the US is comparable to Anti-Americanism" - to be honest I wouldn't want to have to pledge to something I a. Didn't believe in, b. have problems with, c. goes against what I think is right.
I think it's because you want Religion completely removed from everything, the Athiest Religion hates Religion. But they won't say it, I do not see why you have a problem with it, I'm far from being Religious, yet there COULD be, shutting that away is kinda Illogical
Ok, in the following examples tell me which deities you would also happily pledge allegiance to - I mean it doesn't matter you aren't religious so it should be ok... right?
A. Allah
B. Buddha
C. Vishnu
D. Magna Mater
E. Satan
Would you happily pledge allegiance to them? Would you say "I don't see the problem so here goes "I pledge allegiance to etc etc and Allah"?
This new book, by Richard Dawkins, is a criticism of the basic tenets of all monotheistic faiths. An outspoken athiest and scientist who studies ethics, his books and documentaries have dealt with the pseudosciences within religion to how the world would be better off without religion. In his new book, The God Delusion he makes the claim that God does not exist. He quotes Douglas Adams:"Religion ... has certain ideas at the heart of it which we call sacred or holy or whatever. What it means is, 'Here is an idea or a notion that you're not allowed to say anything bad about; you're just not. Why not? - because you're not. If someone votes for a party that you don't agree with, you're free to argue about it as much as you like; everybody will have an argument but nobody feels aggrieved by it. ... But on the other hand, if somebody says 'I mustn't move a light switch on a Saturday', you say 'I respect that.'"
The book is out now
The God Delusion (Wikipedia)
Oh, and JIA - we have an Atheist here who has researched Christianity (in fields he is actually qualified) and found it not true! Hmmm. How about we put this Atheist and your "real Atheist" in a debate? Is this Atheist worthy since his stance is based upon years of cold, hard study like your "real atheist."
Or doesn't he count as he has found reason to show his Atheistic stance is justified?
Originally posted by Imperial_SamuraOk, in the following examples tell me which deities you would also happily pledge allegiance to - I mean it doesn't matter you aren't religious so it should be ok... right?
A. Allah
B. Buddha
C. Vishnu
D. Magna Mater
E. SatanWould you happily pledge allegiance to them? Would you say "I don't see the problem so here goes "I pledge allegiance to etc etc and Allah"?
Oh, and JIA - we have an Atheist here who has researched Christianity (in fields he is actually qualified) and found it not true! Hmmm. How about we put this Atheist and your "real Atheist" in a debate? Is this Atheist worthy since his stance is based upon years of cold, hard study like your "real atheist."
Or doesn't he count as he has found reason to show his Atheistic stance is justified?
You arn't Pledging Allegiance to any God.
"I pledge allegiance to the Flag, of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation, UNDER GOD, Indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all"
You arn't Pledging to a God, you are pledging to the United States, One Nation, Under God(under the watchful eye of, blessed by, whatever, any Deity, Spirit, whatever you believe in, blessed the USA, that represents whatever you believe in, Religious Freedom, I'm not bothered by it, I don't get why people are)
Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
You arn't Pledging Allegiance to any God."I pledge allegiance to the Flag, of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation, UNDER GOD, Indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all"
You arn't Pledging to a God, you are pledging to the United States, One Nation, Under God(under the watchful eye of, blessed by, whatever, any Deity, Spirit, whatever you believe in, blessed the USA, that represents whatever you believe in, Religious Freedom, I'm not bothered by it, I don't get why people are)
Schematics.
"I pledge allegiance to the Flag, of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation, UNDER Allah, Indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all"
"I pledge allegiance to the Flag, of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation, UNDER Buddha, Indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all"
"I pledge allegiance to the Flag, of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation, UNDER Vishnu, Indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all"
"I pledge allegiance to the Flag, of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation, UNDER The Magna Mater, Indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all"
"I pledge allegiance to the Flag, of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation, UNDER Satan, Indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all"
All equally acceptable to you or not?
And I don't believe the US, or any nation, is under the watchful eye of anything ever remotely deity like, so I see no reason to add legitimacy to any nation by asociating a God/gods with them.
Re: The God Delusion
Originally posted by Strangelove
This new book, by Richard Dawkins, is a criticism of the basic tenets of all monotheistic faiths. An outspoken athiest and scientist ......
Well did you realy think a atheist would write a book saying that God does exist??? He is the one that is delusional.
Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Schematics."I pledge allegiance to the Flag, of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation, UNDER Allah, Indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all"
"I pledge allegiance to the Flag, of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation, UNDER Buddha, Indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all"
"I pledge allegiance to the Flag, of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation, UNDER Vishnu, Indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all"
"I pledge allegiance to the Flag, of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation, UNDER The Magna Mater, Indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all"
"I pledge allegiance to the Flag, of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation, UNDER Satan, Indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all"
All equally acceptable to you or not?
And I don't believe the US, or any nation, is under the watchful eye of anything ever remotely deity like, so I see no reason to add legitimacy to any nation by asociating a God/gods with them.
The point is. If you want your country to be "watched" by your god...thats great. But it is not the official position.
The US is "ONE NATION INDIVISIBLE."
Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
1.)The Nation, settlers and such, were here for RELIGIOUS Freedom, their own ways of Christianity
WRONG 👇
Religious Freedom means you are free from religious persecution. It meant they were free from being punished based on religious law, and that all citizens were free to practice whichever religion they chose.
Great Britain WAS Christian...you think they wanted to separate from thier mother land because they were being persecuted as Christians? Give me a break !
They wanted freedom from religious-based rule. I learned that a LONG ASS TIME AGO in a fkn CATHOLIC SCHOOL !
Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
2.)The Equality stated in that is based on the Bible's saying all people are Equal
The Bible never said "all people are equal"
The original Constitution states "All men are equal" ....at the time this did NOT INCLUDE women or black people. Blacks and Native Americans were not considered "human beings" at that time.
You really don't know your History, do you ? ❌
Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
I think it's because you want Religion completely removed from everything, the Athiest Religion hates Religion. But they won't say it, I do not see why you have a problem with it, I'm far from being Religious, yet there COULD be, shutting that away is kinda Illogical
1) Athiesm is NOT a fkn religion ! When will you get that? It is a LACK OF BELEIF in anything supernatural/lack of worship in any diety. IT is NOT a religion itself ❌
2) Not all Athiests hate Religion...on Average, Athiests hate religion as much as Religious people hate Athiesm.
3) There is nothing illogical about removing that clause "under god"...I personally don't care, because it harms me in no way. However, there are people who do not beleive, and do not want to be forced to say "under god" in thier schools.
What would you do if someone forced YOU to say "Under Allah"...or "under Zeus" ....im sure every Christian would be fkn pissed..
Athieism is a Religion in the Sense it's beliefs all Religion is wrong
All Athiests hate Religion, if you don't, you're most likely Agnostic
And again, give me a GOOD reason why it should be removed, when 90% of Non-Religious people, including myself, have no problem with it?
Because you think it empowers God or whatever is not a GOOD reason
Oh and BY THE WAY, you do not even have to say Under God
Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Athieism is a Religion in the Sense it's beliefs all Religion is wrong
Religion requires a guidelined philosophy or diety, as well as rituals. Athiesm lacks all three...
Athiesm is not a religion, it is the ANTI THESIS of religion....
Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
All Athiests hate Religion, if you don't, you're most likely Agnostic
That's like saying "All Black people are gangsta"
You are making a generalization on no factual basis.
Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
And again, give me a GOOD reason why it should be removed, when 90% of Non-Religious people, including myself, have no problem with it?
Because the other 10% do....a minority should NOT be forced to practice the same actions of the majority.
Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Because you think it empowers God or whatever is not a GOOD reason
I don't beleive in God....
Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Oh and BY THE WAY, you do not even have to say Under God
In a public setting, like class, Baseball game, Football game, etc. you DO have to say it.
In a formal setting like a job, you also have to say it.
Originally posted by Darth KreigerLike Urizen said, because the other 10% don't. There's a little thing called Minority Rights, it's one of the principles America was founded on
And again, give me a GOOD reason why it should be removed, when 90% of Non-Religious people, including myself, have no problem with it?
Originally posted by Lord UrizenActually you don’t have to say it, when I went into the Navy in 1990 and taking the oath they said that you can omit that part, however if you are saying it to people to take the oath you do have to say it.
In a public setting, like class, Baseball game, Football game, etc. you DO have to say it.In a formal setting like a job, you also have to say it.
Originally posted by Darth KreigerWhy is it bad that it is there because it is an idea, and idea or thought can be as deadly as any gun or weapon. It can topple nations and start wars and segregation a population based on an idea or thought is wrong and against what this country was founded on.
Athieism is a Religion in the Sense it's beliefs all Religion is wrongAll Athiests hate Religion, if you don't, you're most likely Agnostic
And again, give me a GOOD reason why it should be removed, when 90% of Non-Religious people, including myself, have no problem with it?
Because you think it empowers God or whatever is not a GOOD reason
Oh and BY THE WAY, you do not even have to say Under God
The Pledge of Allegiance nonsense I have no problem with. If you're secure in whatever you believe, a few words shouldn't be a threat to you, your life, or those close to you.
But yeah, when you start deconstructing religions to see that they're all based off of one another, and that nearly everything religious is man-made, it's hard finding rational justification for believing in a creator that resembles anything in a monotheistic religion.
That said, not all scientists go the way of the atheist. Many are vaguely agnostic, because they believe in some sort of higher intelligence (even if that intelligence is the universe itself), but not necessarily anything like many of the world's religions.