Kasumi vs Ayane: The Final Round

Started by StyleTime2 pages

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
The damage on throw punishment was toned down from Doa 3.1, losing 50% health for 1 blocked mixup generally discourages mixups, which is essential to Doa 4. However, in Doa 4 if someone blocks mixups and attempts to throw punish but, makes the wrong decision they will lose MUCH more damage than the 3 throws they just did to punish you.

The only advantage throw set ups give you, is the fact they alllow you to mount an [B]Offense.[/B]


Once again, how does it make the game worse? It's just offense oriented. Adapt. As a Hitomi player, I had to adapt to past, defensive installations using a character who has been about 80% offense in every game she's been in. If you're more into the defensive gameplay then I've got no problem with that.
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Priority means blocking and lots of it, If a character has certain moves that just cannot be beat it tends to make people block or space more I.E. When theres a move thats unbeatable when its out on the screen and its fast too you have to be defensive. Priority makes a game more defensive, when you leave priority and go with speed a player can attack with a faster move than yours if they know whats coming without the [B]fear of you doing an unbeatable move I.E. Busting out a random offense is ok because there is nothing to fear anymore. [/B]

Busting out a random offense isn't ok if you're playing anyone worth absolutely anything. It's not like you can't interrupt combos with faster moves like jabs, crushes, or offensive holds. Again, this caters to the whole offense over defense ideal of this game.

If we look at the other side of what you're saying, you can also just bust your retardly prioritized move out whenever because there is no fear of a move beating it despite the opponent's move being faster.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Which makes the game random, even if there are patterns, you are still [B]guessing which pattern is going to come out next with no option besides spamming counter or taking the damage. The gameplay is way too fast for anything to be thought about or seen on reaction during a real 50/50 situation. In any fighting game, offensive or defensive, there needs to be at least a moment or indication that can be used in a 50/50 situation for the player on defense, to give them a hint as to what is coming next.

In doa 4, there is nothing because the engine makes it too fast, and there is no recovery space because the hitboxes and models have become too big [/B]


You can also crush, slow escape, block, interrupt with a faster move , etc. There IS a hint. Each character has their "good" moves. Any "good" player will use these good moves. A good opponent will know his enemy's good moves and can react accordingly to the most likely outcomes. Is it 100% foolproof? No. Is it an absolute guessing game like you're saying it is? No.
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar

It makes the game shallow, everyone know's it's harder to win with defensive strategy as opposed to offensive. In Doa 4, defense is taboo, which encourages random assualts that cannot be punished. I can throw out random offense as much and not fear punishment, except for throws which put me at a disadvantage because it sets up an [B]Offensive
[/B]

It doesn't make the game shallow at all. It encourages you to throw out a better offense, to interrupt for counter hits, to crush, to do whatever you can to get back on the offensive.
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Online changes the game too drastically, why do you think the tiers online vs offline are so different. In reality the game cannot be played properly online, the engine is too delicate. The reason why doa is the laighing stock of the fighting community is because the players aren't will to travel for offline tournaments, they rather play online and fight so called "High Level" playersbased on a stupid ranking system. Only a few people travel, whenever offline tournaments are held virtually no one comes. There are to many casual players out their, And casuals do not build a competitive scene.

I know the game is changed a little bit. Kasumi is a monster online for example. Also, DOA is getting a bit more respect BECAUSE of DOA4. It was at plenty of big offline events this year. Alas, I wasn't comparing DOA4 to all other fighters, I was comparing it to other DOA installations.

That was a typo in my last post. I apologize. I meant the top online players are the exact same players winning the offline tournaments. Master, Ryujin, Justownin,Rikuto, Offbeat Ninja, Mamba, Vigaku the list goes on. You have to get practice somewhere you know? When I say "top online players", I don't mean just anyone who is like SS or something. I mean the ones winning actual tournaments. There are a few players who play only online and like to brag like they are the greatest, but for the most part the top players are the same offline and online.

Rikuto hates doa 4, why is his name there and evo is threatening to drop doa4.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Once again, how does it make the game worse? It's just offense oriented. Adapt. As a Hitomi player, I had to adapt to past, defensive installations using a character who has been about 80% offense in every game she's been in. If you're more into the defensive gameplay then I've got no problem with that.

Because like I said several times before, the game has barely no defensive properties. You siimply spam ofense and rely on 50/50 situations.

Originally posted by StyleTime

Busting out a random offense isn't ok if you're playing anyone worth absolutely anything. It's not like you can't interrupt combos with faster moves like jabs, crushes, or offensive holds. Again, this caters to the whole offense over defense ideal of this game.

No, you can't, poking is nearly impossible since the moves are way to fast and the hitboxes are messed up. They shaved several frames of the animations. And remeber what I said about punishes, you can't use pokes as punishes anymore since recovery is way to high, hell you can't even do back combo's. The completly unmade doa.

Originally posted by StyleTime

If we look at the other side of what you're saying, you can also just bust your retardly prioritized move out whenever because there is no fear of a move beating it despite the opponent's move being faster.

Right, with 50% grab punish, someone's really going to through out random moves. Priority moves are for punishing and the tracking in doa 3 is lessen so you can actually Side Step!

Originally posted by StyleTime

You can also crush, slow escape, block, interrupt with a faster move , etc. There IS a hint. Each character has their "good" moves. Any "good" player will use these good moves. A good opponent will know his enemy's good moves and can react accordingly to the most likely outcomes. Is it 100% foolproof? No. Is it an absolute guessing game like you're saying it is? No.

Crush- What's so innovative about crush in a offensive game
Block-Lol, Super offense plus gaurd crush, and high speed mix-ups>>>>Blocks
Interrupt with a faster move- I.E. Offense beats offense

Reaction-Like I said the moves are too fast, reacting is highly improbable. Your not reacting to a kick with 9 frames , quick recovery, and unpunishable. Because if you mess up on a punish, you eat crazy offense.

Originally posted by StyleTime

It doesn't make the game shallow at all. It encourages you to throw out a [b]better
offense, to interrupt for counter hits, to crush, to do whatever you can to get back on the offensive. [/B]

And that's what makes it shallow,.

Originally posted by StyleTime

I know the game is changed a little bit. Kasumi is a monster online for example. Also, DOA is getting a bit more respect BECAUSE of DOA4. It was at plenty of big offline events this year. Alas, I wasn't comparing DOA4 to all other fighters, I was comparing it to other DOA installations.

Doa4 is being ragged on hard, the community is seen as a joke.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Rikuto hates doa 4, why is his name there and evo is threatening to drop doa4.

Actually Rikuto has been actively participating in the the DOA4 scene. He has even started his Roadtrip of Owning or something like that where he is going to travel around to every little DOA event he can to "own".

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Because like I said several times before, the game has barely no defensive properties. You siimply spam ofense and rely on 50/50 situations.

You don't "spam" offense unless you don't know what you're doing. You still pick your moves. I already agreed on the defense thing. Still doesn't make it worse, just different.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar

No, you can't, poking is nearly impossible since the moves are way to fast and the hitboxes are messed up. They shaved several frames of the animations. And remeber what I said about punishes, you can't use pokes as punishes anymore since recovery is way to high, hell you can't even do back combo's. The completly unmade doa.

Poking is quite possible. Is a very good way to play Ayane in DOA4 as I had to figure out when I first got the game. Not as punishment, but rather as a way to get you back on the offensive.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar

Right, with 50% grab punish, someone's really going to through out random moves. Priority moves are for punishing and the tracking in doa 3 is lessen so you can actually [B]Side Step
!

Crush- What's so innovative about crush in a offensive game
Block-Lol, Super offense plus gaurd crush, and high speed mix-ups>>>>Blocks
Interrupt with a faster move- I.E. Offense beats offense

Reaction-Like I said the moves are too fast, reacting is highly improbable. Your not reacting to a kick with 9 frames , quick recovery, and unpunishable. Because if you mess up on a punish, you eat crazy offense. [/B]


On that same notion, no one is going to throw out random moves at the risk of being interrupted for critical stun.

Crushes allow you to get back on offense. I didn't say it was something new. However, it is useful.

I already said it's about the better offense.

Actually, you can react just fine after having played the game a while. I don't believe anyone has a 9 frame kick either. Don't punish, interrupt.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar

And that's what makes it shallow,.

Nah. That's what makes you dislike the game.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Doa4 is being ragged on hard, the community is seen as a joke.

Wasn't arguing that, but DOA4 has gotten the most props of the DOA series from other fighters. DOA players have been and still are getting signed to pro teams as we speak.

Originally posted by StyleTime
You don't "spam" offense unless you don't know what you're doing. You still pick your moves. I already agreed on the defense thing. Still doesn't make it worse, just different.

No, it makes it worst, and you don't have to think about what moves to pull out. Your more at risk punishing a mistake versus making one.

Originally posted by StyleTime

Poking is quite possible. Is a very good way to play Ayane in DOA4 as I had to figure out when I first got the game. Not as punishment, but rather as a way to get you back on the offensive.

which goes back to my point, the game is too offensive. Pokes in doa 4 rely on pulling out an attack faster than your opponent.

Originally posted by StyleTime

On that same notion, no one is going to throw out random moves at the risk of being interrupted for critical stun.

Yes they are, if they are not going to punish they will. Doa 4 promotes that kind of mindless offense.

Originally posted by StyleTime

Crushes allow you to get back on offense. I didn't say it was something new. However, it is useful.

That's the keyword Offense that's all the game does, encourage lots of offense.

Originally posted by StyleTime

I already said it's about the better offense.

The game is all about offense, that's the problem, random offense

Originally posted by StyleTime

Actually, you can react just fine after having played the game a while. I don't believe anyone has a 9 frame kick either. Don't punish, interrupt.

That's not what I said, I said the animations are shaved off. And I find that hard to belive that you can react.

Originally posted by StyleTime

Nah. That's what makes [B]you
dislike the game. [/B]

No, that's what makes the game shallow, dropping every defensive aspect of the game and pretty much unmaking the entire system for one that encourages random mindless offense and guessing counter hold as a defense makes it shallow.

Originally posted by StyleTime

Wasn't arguing that, but DOA4 has gotten the most props of the DOA series from other fighters. DOA players have been and still are getting signed to pro teams as we speak.

Where did you hear that from, Doa is hated in the high level community. And doa 4 doesn't help, the game is broken.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Actually Rikuto has been actively participating in the the DOA4 scene. He has even started his Roadtrip of Owning or something like that where he is going to travel around to every little DOA event he can to "own".

Rikuto hates the game, he only plays it to prove how bad it is. He even said he was going to blast it if he won evo. The game has caused a split in the doa community.

I'm voting Kasumi since she's one the game's main heroines and has quite cool attacks.

And, for beauty, I'd say both ladies are even.