When we say symbolism in DMC

Symbolism

Its not actually the right term to be used when discussing something that means something else in a movie.

Symbolism is what it is. Say you see the cross, you know its Christianity, you see a flag, you know it represents a country..the EITC logo etc.

However say you see a phallic suggestion (Jack and the cannon), or something that looks like something else..(Kraken)..that is symbolism.

Everything else is actually Mise en Scene..french for "Put in the scene"

So now I'm gonna explain something to people who don't just don't see how the dog can be linked into Jack and how Liz mourning at the start and finish can be linked in with a particular theme:

"The use of mise-en-scene elements by a film maker helps the viewer to "read" a scene in a particular way. Mise-en-scene can offer the viewer information and meanings connected to character, genre, atmosphere, mood, place, space and time. Elements of mise-en-ecene may be repeated within a film and they may also change. you should carefully identify the elements which are constant and those which change and consider why this difference occurs"

Mise en scene:

1) setting
2) decor
3) props
"The objects included in a scene are also essential in the generation of meaning. They could give information about genre, historical period or character"
4) costume
5) make-up
6) colour
7) Character body language and movement
(also camera angles often come into play here)

ALL of these can be used in film to create themes/meaning (deeper meaning)

PROPS peeps props

..the dog is a prop, as are its keys..as is the bone, the compass is a prop..all these things are probably not pointless and without meaning they are in my opinion used to generate meaning for the characters. 🙂

"Elements of mise-en-ecene may be repeated within a film and they may also change. you should carefully identify the elements which are constant and those which change and consider why this difference occurs"

I take this into consideration when talking about Liz at the start of the movie and Liz at the end of the movie..she's mourning Jack..and its repeated later on at the end. but there is also a difference but the theme be constant..Jack is REALLY gone from her life now..he's not just absent and in a coffin after her mourning at a funeral type scene (mise en scene again peeps)

Just needed to get that in one thread because people just don't seem to understand where I'm coming from when it comes to the dog/Jack theory AND the opening and closing theory..I just needed to have it in one place to explain what the heck I'm on about..

I also think the heart resembles something else as does the key all the men are after on the beach..the wheel probably does mean something too to the theme or character/s..and where they are placed as it rolls along (Jack the underdog no?)

NOW when it comes to lines with double meanings, sound:digetic and non digetic etc..thats not mise-en-scene...I think its "film language."

*searches for sheet*

I always enjoy when you type up film stuff. It's make me understand the movie better. As Jack would say "That's Very Intersting".

LOL thankies 🙂

I think the dog is used in the mise-en-scene to help create this theme jack is following IMO. If he does the good deed, drops his keys he gets the reward which is the bone. (Elizabeth for Jack) He also mirrors Jack and his actions in the movie, after Jack's dead..we see that the dog is in fact not dead..he doesnt have the keys..he has the bone 😄

Oh I was wrong..Film language means everything about film (god I should be ashamed at forgetting that lol):

"Film Language" describes the way directors, producers and editors create meaning from the moving images of film, video and television. We "decode" the meanings in a similar way to how we interpret written language, but much more so, we do not just "read what we see" - we bring into our interpretation of moving images a whole range of pre-existing expectation and knowledge that affect the meaning we take from what we see.

Everything that is used to create meaning/themes,deeper meaning in films:
1) Signs, codes and Conventions
2) Mise en scene
3) Editing
4) Shot types
5) Camera Angle
6) Camera movement
7) Lighting
8) "Deigesis" and sound
9) Visual effects/ SFX
10) Narrative
11) Genre
12) Iconography
13) The star system
14) Realism

i swear...everyday lovely has 4 different NEW threads lol

this is me just trying to back up my agruments about the dog, bone and keys having meaning with Jack and his theme in the movie with something solid

..but people seem to be ignoring the thread lol..I keep trying to get surreal44 and willofthewisp to take notice but they dont lmao 😂 darn you girls

Just trying to prove I'm not looking too deep with crack pot theories 🙁 😂

I know that anything that is centeral in a scene and is like prop usually generates deeper meaning in movies...more often than not.

Good Lord ppl are still arguing about the damn dog..??

well not argument as such..Just debate...

oh let me rephrase

Good Lord ppl are still debating over the damn dog..??

whats wrong with that^^? 😄

lmao nothing wrong w u. My question is WHATS WRONG WITH THE DOG!? Why is it so hard no to see the similarities bewtween the Dog and Jack. Why was the special ending focused on the Dog. It obviously meant something. Dog is an original character from POTC the ride. And Jack is our main character, they cant kill both of them. And both are facing with the same problem and msut figure out a way to escape.

Jack out of the kraken/daveys locker
Dog out of the cannibal island

Each got what they wanted, which got them in trouble, now they both must figure out how to get out of trouble to be with who.what they want most. Is it that hard ppl..??

Im slightly mad at the dog....I had to wait through al those credits! (whihc in my opinion seemed longer than the movie lol) just to watch that little 5 second clip...and yes i know its probably important and related to Jack but i mean I really had to go to the bathrooom but since Im in love with POTC and i heardabout the clip at the end I just HAD to see it...so I was slightly mad at the dog for just HAVING to be at the END of the credits! lol sry felt like sharing...😄

I personally think the dog COULD be realted to Jack;s story in some way...i still think he might not and just might be somehting added into the movie becasue it was in the ride...i could argue (excuse me...DEBATE) either way...

Originally posted by CaptinJackLover
Im slightly mad at the dog....I had to wait through al those credits! (whihc in my opinion seemed longer than the movie lol) just to watch that little 5 second clip...and yes i know its probably important and related to Jack but i mean I really had to go to the bathrooom but since Im in love with POTC and i heardabout the clip at the end I just HAD to see it...so I was slightly mad at the dog for just HAVING to be at the END of the credits! lol sry felt like sharing...😄

I personally think the dog COULD be realted to Jack;s story in some way...i still think he might not and just might be somehting added into the movie becasue it was in the ride...i could argue (excuse me...DEBATE) either way...

thats cool lol..I can understand people having that opinion..but Imma keep my opinion lol, Cuz I had to write a screen play (did it on a scene from the Odyssey) I got told of for even adding a bird in that flew over Odysseus shoulder..my teacher thought it meant nothing so he told me to take it out or I might get a lower grade..but he didn't understand that back then birds were signs to read the future..but he still told me to take it out because general public don't know that.

Its only the Americans wh o really know that the dog is art of the ride the rest of the world don't.

Also I really don't think they would just add in a meaningless thing from the ride..I mean they added in Tortuga's scenes (similar to the ride) but it wasn't just a random thing added, it had to tie in with the story in movie 1.

I also feel that they left that to the end because its a rather large hint when you think hard enough...he's got the bone.

link that back to what the dog had before and how he behaved towards his two friends..then how he lost them he transformed in character..Why even write in that he lost his key if it meant nothing to anything? They could have just left the dog with them but no they gave him a big bone to hold on a throne..

Its a huge contrast..I remember seeing it thinking..
1.where are his keys? Its most beloved possession
2. why does he have a bone?..a reward?? give a dog a bone"

then I linked it in with what I saw earlier and it basically mirrors Jack in DMC

Its an add in from the ride yes..but If I was writing this screenplay..I would know better than to just have him there as a meaningless character(I was taught this)..Its wise to also use him as a way to help generate theme..something that simple dialogue cant always do. Its the theme for Jack anyway which is..do the good deed and you "gain the rewards that follow" - Elizabeth. The dog did the good deed, he kept his friends safe...we hen see him with a bone, reward. Jack just crossed step 9 before the mocie closed (seizing of the sword/reward)

all the dog had to do to gain the bone in movie 1 was drop his keys, do the right thing and he would get the reward...which is much tastier than cold metal keys no?

watch movie 1..listen to what Jack says to the dog/himself as he hesitates to come close and help him..

"come on you stinky, mangy COWARD"(runs off)..is this how he really sees himself? The dog runs off clinging to his keys rather than help someone else...like a coward.

I would say yes because on the island he owns up to being one.

I'm here! I'm reading!

But I got promoted at work and now I have almost no time to post. Ah, what I do for food. Are there any jobs around where I get paid to do nothing?

At any rate, I see what you are saying, although, on WordPlayer, when asked about the canon as a phallic symbol for Jack, one of the writers replied that sometimes a canon is just a canon. That is my main argument that not everything is symbolic.

Not everything is put into this movie as a deep symbol, because obviously, a lot of that stuff would be necessary to fit in with the times (sort of, since some of the objects and history are screwy. Ah, the magic of movies!).

And my main objection has to do with how you relate EVERYTHING to Jack, or Jack/Elizabeth. There are tons of other characters in the movie, each one with their own story, and some of these symbollic things you view as being J/E could actually mean something else.

For example, I don't think the dog represents Jack. I think the dog is a little plot device (same with the monkey). Notice that both animals are used at the end of the movie, and notice too, that they are both doing something that is involved with immortality.

The chest, the coin, the throne and the bone could be significant clues, and since they are all linked to Jack (here, now I'm linking stuff to Jack 😄 ), perhaps it is symbollic of what happens to him?

I don't know. I'm just tossing in an idea. I like symbolism, and your teacher is kind of a retard for assuming that little uneducated people like me wouldn't understand the significance of the bird.

We peons may not go to college, but that doesn't mean that we don't pick up on things. 🙂

I completely see the whole Jack/Dog thing. The ending scene after the credits wasn't even that funny or anything so it had to have more meaning lol

Although the dog and the entire Cannibal Island scene may have had more to do with Calypso and what happens to her rather than with Jack.

Did you notice the huts? They looked like spider webs! The particular web that they look like is a funnel web. Scary. 😄

There is a great post on Wordplayer about the Cannibal scene
Here

If it isn't showing up right sorry, just copy and paste the part between wordplayer and 85338

I agree not everything has meaning..its usually the ones that appear to link in with a particular theme..they usually help express it.

I also disagree the theme is raised that Jack has to do the good deed to get the reward. The dog does it and we see him get it as does Jack

Its important not to over-annalyze and not to under-annalyze.

>> While the cannibal island sequence was one of my favorites, it had no bearing
>> at all on the plot.

That is a very rare thing to do^^Willofthewisp you were right 😛

Still its very rare thing to do with a script but I suppose because Its Jack sparrow they can. They would have never done that with PotC1

thanks Ericadawn 🙂

also funny how they dont even mention the dog...again..

Its interesting that they dont..cuz the dog is gonna be in the 3rd too I think...

I still stick by it. The dog helps raise the theme of Jack's character.

OH WAIT LOL..nt he didnt say what i said about the plot^^^ that that was a comment made for him to reply to 😂...my bad

so I wasnt wrong..they didnt just add that in for no reason.

-- this one is a bit unfair, but the story of Jack imprisoned in human form and then set free is a subtle set up for something in Pirates III.

*COUGH* TIA DALMA! *COUGH.*...wow what a crabby woman she is ay? 😉