Taki vs Ayane

Originally posted by Guilty Gear
So anyone who responds to your posts is now whining. In case you haven't noticed you do the exact same thing, respond to their posts and tell them their opinion is wrong. Nice double standard. Bye.

I never even said your opinion is wrong, and where does this "everybody" come from? Can't you form an argument without bringing someone in?

Originally posted by Guilty Gear
You either cannot read or misinterpret everything one says to you. Nowhere did I claim you said that the setting changed. I said that it was your theory.

How's it my theory when I never supported it and I addressed your points while you ignored mine.

If that wasn't your theory, than what was?

Here's a thot. How about you to stop bickering like a married couple over where the fight took place and whether those are stepping stones or tree stumps?😄

Originally posted by Sandai Kitetsu
Did I say it should be discounted? Your giving it way more worth than it actually has, mane. We do not know how said fights went down so what are we gain from using them as the basis for a debate? Your basically saying that since Ayane beat Kasumi Taki's experience should not be a problem. Problem is overcoming an advantage in a prior fight does not change an adavantage in this fight.

Right, which is why you had to claim that:
Is that not hyping up her victory?

She's not physically stronger than Taki just because she can throw a Kunai, my Dude. Why did you bring Kasumi then, to show that Ayane can fight a "more experienced opponent" just to refute Taki's experience? Too bad that Ayane is not Kasumi.

No ones ignoring anything, your just exaggerating just to debate.

Yeah, it's the Voldo fight and we do not know where she leapt from because she just appeared from the luanch pad with hayate. She was not on fire at all. Genra just set the area a balze, being on fire and near a fire are to different things.

Because it is A>B>C logic, your entire argument about how Ayane willd deal with Taki's Edge weapons falls apart without said fights. Why is kasumi here, dide she fight aayane with a weapon and what skill did Genra show?

Fanboyism is more than just debating against power houses, it's over hyping your favorite characters ability as well. Like when you claimed Ayane took moutain side leveling blast in one thread.
I do not have any displeasure with ayane and this is about the way you debate. Ayane is irrelevant because you did this before in the Hitomi Vs Asuka thread. Maybe I was wrong to call you a fanboy, But, your really debating from an illogical stand point.

It did not affect everything, she was not on fire you can clearly see this.

I said it wasn't the bulk of Ayane's case. The victory deserves hype if that is what you were trying to elicit from me.

Yes, yes she is. It lodges into concrete. When did Taki do that something like that? You can argue some of the other stuff if you want, but Ayane has the strength down. I already mentioned why Kasumi was brought up.

Exaggerating? Me? You say this after you brought up Taki vs Voldo? This leads me to the next point actually.

Yeah she kicked Voldo....in the knee. Voldo faltered. That was about it. He didn't fall. He didn't even move backwards. His knee gave way. A real life human can do that even against armor. Armor is made with flexible knee joints as it would be ineffective to not be able to bend your knees in combat, armed or unarmed. You can clearly see Ayane and Hayate jump from an upper floor no more than 5 floors from the top of the Tri Towers. They flip in the air for a good bit before landing. They fell from a pretty rediculously high height. I'm not referring to her endind scene if that is what you are thinking. Maybe we're not talking about the same scene.

No, it doesn't fall apart. I menioned ways for Ayane to deal with weapons. Teleporting, countering etc. Ayane's victory just further strengthens the fact the Ayane can effectively deal with weapons.

I've never stated Ayane as my favorite character as far as I know, but that's beside the point. I am pretty sure I said "a debatably mountain leveling blast" in that thread. Again, you act like you haven't hyped up something before....including things in this very thread. You said Voldo was actually knocked down by Taki. You said Taki had a "powerful arsenal of ninpo" when in fact she has like one. In each game she does the same damn expanding field attack with a different pose before doing it. While we're on Asuka vs Hitomi, may I also bring up your argument with Asuka jumping from the skyscraper? You brought up essentially the same point about leg strength/durability I am bringing up here. To me, your standpoint is illogical though. As you already know, I'm originally from the comic books vs. Past victories and losses count a lot unless there is much evidence to the contrary. It's the reason Champion will never be given a victory over anyone. For all his abilities, he fights like an idiot and he always loses. While Taki has wins, they're against noone who is actually established on any level near Ayane. If Taki was just blatantly Ayane's physical superior, then she could take it. Unfortunately, Ayane has most of the combat advantages and the win record. It's illogical to me for you to argue against that.

Maybe I was quick to say you you're hating on Ayane, but honestly look at this. What was I supposed to think when you revived these?

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=437162&pagenumber=4

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f85/t431460.html

Of course we can't forget about the very thread we're participating in right now. Maybe you're not hating, but it does seem like you went out of your way to express discontent with the young kunoichi.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Oh. Well either way nothing touched her so her durability is not as L33T as Styles is makin it sound.

As for the Omega vid. The area under Ayane's very feet was clearly burned and the map was leveled. Either Omega blasted the place or he burned it. I don't see how you all can deny that.

Yeah she can take mountain busting blasts but not a bullet.🙄Also, one impressive victory Taki has is Cervantes I think.

Originally posted by StyleTime
I don't think you're giving it enough credit though. After a certain point experience doesn't play much of a factor. Otherwise, people with less experience would never win.

Wait,Wait,Wait, If experience doesn't play much of a factor than why the hyper focus on who Ayane defeated? I haven't even mentioned all the people Taki has defeated, but you brung Kasumi and Genra into this debat and now it's not much of a factor?

Originally posted by StyleTime

It would be one thing if Ayane had never had a real field mission, but she has. It also doesn't help Taki that much of Taki's experience is against demons.

How does it not help her that she has fought Demons and Immortal spirits? Infact, I can say the same about Ayane's fights

Originally posted by StyleTime

I said it wasn't the bulk of Ayane's case. The victory deserves hype if that is what you were trying to elicit from me.

The problem is you overhype said fights. Like when you claimed Kasumi is on a higher level than Taki just to make Ayane look L33T.

Originally posted by StyleTime

Yes, yes she is. It lodges into concrete. When did Taki do that something like that? You can argue some of the other stuff if you want, but Ayane has the strength down. I already mentioned why Kasumi was brought up.

Dude, a Kunai weighs what three to five pounds? That's probably 5% of Ayane's actual weight and your ttelling me that her throwing something that light makes her stronger? The impact of the kunai has nothing to do with physical strength it's about force. The same way a baseball pitcher can hurl a baseball around 80-100 MPH. It's all about how you throw and your accuracy not physical effort. I've seen a japanese man who claimed to be a ninja throw a playing card to cut a cucumber, I've seen Chinese Cops cut wood with a sheet of paper, etc. Does that mean they are physical powerhouses, no.

Originally posted by StyleTime

Exaggerating? Me? You say this after you brought up Taki vs Voldo? This leads me to the next point actually.

Yeah she kicked Voldo....in the knee. Voldo faltered. That was about it. He didn't fall. He didn't even move backwards. His knee gave way. A real life human can do that even against armor. Armor is made with flexible knee joints as it would be ineffective to not be able to bend your knees in combat, armed or unarmed. You can clearly see Ayane and Hayate jump from an upper floor no more than 5 floors from the top of the Tri Towers. They flip in the air for a good bit before landing. They fell from a pretty rediculously high height. I'm not referring to her endind scene if that is what you are thinking. Maybe we're not talking about the same scene.

Okay, that's nice, but it still takes strength to do that. Are you telling me an average person can sweep like that?

Originally posted by StyleTime

No, it doesn't fall apart. I menioned ways for Ayane to deal with weapons. Teleporting, countering etc. Ayane's victory just further strengthens the fact the Ayane can effectively deal with weapons.

And, how is she going to counter an enemy with weapons?
Teleport, you mean like Taki can?

Originally posted by StyleTime

I've never stated Ayane as my favorite character as far as I know, but that's beside the point. I am pretty sure I said "a debatably mountain leveling blast" in that thread. Again, you act like you haven't hyped up something before....including things in this very thread.

First of all, I never denied hyping up things before, but I'm talking abot in this particular thread. You were exaggerating Kasumi just to make it seem that Ayane dealing with Kasumi who is on a higher level than Taki makes more than capable of defeating Taki. I haven't exaggerated anything in this thread, and you never said "debatable moutain blasting".

Originally posted by StyleTime

You said Voldo was actually knocked down by Taki. You said Taki had a "powerful arsenal of ninpo" when in fact she has like [B]one. In each game she does the same damn expanding field attack with a different pose before doing it. [/B]

Wow, I've said the samething's about Ayane's Ninpo's despite she has the same amount as Taki: Two.

Originally posted by StyleTime

While we're on Asuka vs Hitomi, may I also bring up your argument with Asuka jumping from the skyscraper? You brought up essentially the same point about leg strength/durability I am bringing up here. To me, your standpoint is illogical though. As you already know, I'm originally from the comic books vs. Past victories and losses count a lot unless there is much evidence to the contrary. It's the reason Champion will never be given a victory over anyone. For all his abilities, he fights like an idiot and he always loses. While Taki has wins, they're against noone who is actually established on any level near Ayane. If Taki was just blatantly Ayane's physical superior, then she could take it. Unfortunately, Ayane has most of the combat advantages and the win record. It's illogical to me for you to argue against that.

Do you understand concepts such as jobbing or "The Hero must always win"? Are you aware that by using your logic powerful characters would lose just because they've lost for the sake of story before? This isn't CBR, we do not debate with jobber aura's or PIS. With that said, how is it illogical to prefer advantage over win record when the later is subjecated to to "Main Chracter bias" half the time in fiction? How many times have we seen a powerful boss lose just for the sake of story? What's logical about that?

Originally posted by StyleTime

Maybe I was quick to say you you're hating on Ayane, but honestly look at this. What was I supposed to think when you revived these?

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=437162&pagenumber=4

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f85/t431460.html

Of course we can't forget about the very thread we're participating in right now. Maybe you're not hating, but it does seem like you went out of your way to express discontent with the young kunoichi.

What exactly did I say in spite of ayane in this thread:http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=437162&pagenumber=4

And, as for this: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=431460&pagenumber=1

I told S.prime that I was joking about those comments, and he told me that I was putting her in a bad light in Games versus. So, I agree'd to stop. Your beating a dead horse, mane. No one in this thread said anything negative about Ayane, but you insisted she was being underrated which is why I told you to stop whining. No one's bashed her in this thread or made her look weak. We just say she loses to Taki.

Originally posted by StyleTime

How "L33T" was I making it sound? I didn't say Ayane could just roll over Taki because of it. Like others you are confusing durability with invulnerability.

As for the Omega vid. The area [B]under Ayane's very feet was clearly burned and the map was leveled. Either Omega blasted the place or he burned it. I don't see how you all can deny that. [/B]

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Yeah she can take mountain busting blasts but not a bullet.🙄Also, one impressive victory Taki has is Cervantes I think.

Wolverine takes shots from class 100s and can be penetrated by bullets.

It's not the same thing.

As for Taki vs Cervantes, yeah she beat him.....with help. Sophitia fought Cervantes and destroyed Soul Edge. Taki later jumped in on a weakened Cervantes after Sophitia was injured. Sophitia deserves the credit for that moreso than Taki.

Ayane doesn't need help with her fights.

Oh I forgot about the gay Sophie weakens him and Taki finishes him off thing, why does Namco always give the mid tiers BS that lets them beat the high tiers?

The fire isn't even moutain busting.

I know, but Styles is makin it seem like she can take mountain busting blasts, when she gets cut by bullets.

Originally posted by Sandai Kitetsu
Wait,Wait,Wait, If experience doesn't play much of a factor than why the hyper focus on who Ayane defeated? I haven't even mentioned all the people Taki has defeated, but you brung Kasumi and Genra into this debat and now it's not much of a factor?

How does it not help her that she has fought Demons and Immortal spirits? Infact, I can say the same about Ayane's fights

The problem is you overhype said fights. Like when you claimed Kasumi is on a higher level than Taki just to make Ayane look L33T.

Dude, a Kunai weighs what three to five pounds? That's probably 5% of Ayane's actual weight and your ttelling me that her throwing something that light makes her stronger? The impact of the kunai has nothing to do with physical strength it's about force. The same way a baseball pitcher can hurl a baseball around 80-100 MPH. It's all about how you throw and your accuracy not physical effort. I've seen a japanese man who claimed to be a ninja throw a playing card to cut a cucumber, I've seen Chinese Cops cut wood with a sheet of paper, etc. Does that mean they are physical powerhouses, no.

Okay, that's nice, but it still takes strength to do that. Are you telling me an average person can sweep like that?

And, how is she going to counter an enemy with weapons?
Teleport, you mean like Taki can?

Taki used a hand sign ninpo to seal away a demon in one Soul Caliber installment. How will it help with Ayane? Taki's demon slaying experience keeps her in shape and helps her keep a level head in combat. Those are pretty much the only benefits she'll reap from that experience against a human. You can't say that about Ayane at all. Ayane has actually defeated other humans, ninja, etc. Many of which perform feats similar or greater to Taki. Will this alone enable Ayane to defeat Taki? Hell No. Does this advantage go to Ayane? It should.

I didn't overhype it. Overhyping would be saying Kasumi would absolutely curbstomp Taki and Ayane beat her. I didn't say that. I just stated that Kasumi has most of Taki's attributes and operates on a higher level overall.

They didn't throw those things through walls though.

Yeah, I am saying a normal person can do that. Remy Bonjasky swept someone with a round kick in real life.

I thought we already settled this issue. Taki has to use hand signs to teleport. If she starts posing, Ayane can lodge a kunai in her skull. Taki will probably stop the signs and block the kunai, but she'll know not to try teleporting again. Taki's teleport is useless here unlike Ayane's.

Originally posted by Sandai Kitetsu
First of all, I never denied hyping up things before, but I'm talking abot in this particular thread. You were exaggerating Kasumi just to make it seem that Ayane dealing with Kasumi who is on a higher level than Taki makes more than capable of defeating Taki. I haven't exaggerated anything in this thread, and you never said "debatable moutain blasting".

Wow, I've said the samething's about Ayane's Ninpo's despite she has the same amount as Taki: Two.

Do you understand concepts such as jobbing or "The Hero must always win"? Are you aware that by using your logic powerful characters would lose just because they've lost for the sake of story before? This isn't CBR, we do not debate with jobber aura's or PIS. With that said, how is it illogical to prefer advantage over win record when the later is subjecated to to "Main Chracter bias" half the time in fiction? How many times have we seen a powerful boss lose just for the sake of story? What's logical about that?

What exactly did I say in spite of ayane in this thread:http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=437162&pagenumber=4

And, as for this: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=431460&pagenumber=1

I told S.prime that I was joking about those comments, and he told me that I was putting her in a bad light in Games versus. So, I agree'd to stop. Your beating a dead horse, mane. No one in this thread said anything negative about Ayane, but you insisted she was being underrated which is why I told you to stop whining. No one's bashed her in this thread or made her look weak. We just say she loses to Taki.

I already addressed this with S.Prime. Tell me, if ayane was covered in fire at the begining of the bout. Why is it that as soon as the match starts the fire which was covering Ayane is gone and there's a clear wide open space with fire at the [B]edge of the fight area? What happned to the fire that hit ayane, because when the match starts it's nowhere near her. Infact, if you look at the ending the only flame that's near Ayane is one which is most likely the remains of Genra. Said fire is standing in front of ayane, but around her you see no flame. [/B]

Originally posted by StyleTime
Durability: Initially I was going to say Sagat, but Ayane did take a debatably mountain leveling blast directly and was unscathed. I'll still give Sagat the edge here for the sake of argument.

Fair enough.

Jobbing is different. When you job, you actually have feats and victories to back up the fact that your loss was illogical. Consistantly losing is a bit different. As I've said before, I don't prefer win records to advantages. Both should be accounted for. The problem for Taki is that Ayane has her beat in both areas.

I admitted maybe I was wrong here. I just said it seemed that way. I didn't accuse anyone of bashing Ayane at all. I said she was being underrated....which she is.

The fire isn't just going to burn dirt as you already know. I am still asking how do you account for the fact that everything including the trees, area on which Ayane is standing, and the incline of the the place have all been destroyed? The only option other than Ayane weathering either fire or a force blast, is that she moves faster than sight. If the latter is true, then Ayane obviously wins in a stomp. However, I don't think her speed being that great is likely.

The funny thing is, even if we take out the Genra thing.....OH JEEZ Ayane STILL has the advantage! 😄

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
I know, but Styles is makin it seem like she can take mountain busting blasts, when she gets cut by bullets.

She wasn't even hit by the blast, furthermore if she was on fire then what happened to the fire around her because it's gone when the match starts.

Originally posted by Sandai Kitetsu
She wasn't even hit by the blast, furthermore if she was on fire then what happened to the fire around her because it's gone when the match starts.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Oh I forgot about the gay Sophie weakens him and Taki finishes him off thing, why does Namco always give the mid tiers BS that lets them beat the high tiers?

Can you imagine that?

Even without the victory, technically Sophitia has the potential to beat him lol. If she wasn't injured by the flying shards, who knows what might have happened.

Originally posted by StyleTime
I'm talking specifically how simply "being in the field" longer stops mattering after a while. Again, much of Taki's experience is slaying demons. In a demon hunting contest, Taki stomps Ayane. However, Ayane has actually taken down [B]more more big guns which are with much more relevancy to the fight. Taki's experience sealing off demons like she did in Soul Caliber won't help much here. Ayane isn't a demon. [/B]

Are you kidding me?

She still engaed the ****ers in combat, it's not like she used methods that would not work on a human:

YouTube video

She blew up the the top half of the castle just to kill the demon she was fighting. How would that not hurt Ayane, mane? You are really reaching here in the most non-sensicle way.

Originally posted by StyleTime

Taki used a hand sign ninpo to seal away a demon in one Soul Caliber installment. How will it help with Ayane?

Not always, look at the video I posted.

Originally posted by StyleTime

Taki's demon slaying experience keeps her in shape and helps her keep a level head in combat. Those are pretty much the only benefits she'll reap from that experience. You can't say that about Ayane at all. Ayane has actually defeated other humans, ninja, etc. Many of which perform feats similar or greater to Taki. Will this alone enable Ayane to defeat Taki? No. Does this this advantage go to Ayane? It should.

I never said it doesn't go as an advantage, but that's all you've been debating so far. Infact, you just downplayed Taki's demon slaying skills claiming it won't work on a human when she clearly illustrates it can. Your reaching hard, and notice I haven't brought up Taki's fight against:

-Mitsurugi (There rivals)
-Fuma ninja's
-Her master after he was possessed by an ancient Demon
-Cerventes
-An ancient demon that escaped for a temple which taki killed.

And, the fights in her cutscene's

That's more than ayane, but do you see me claiming that those opponents are on a higher level than Ayane?

Originally posted by StyleTime

It didn't overhype it. Overhyping would be saying Kasumi would absolutely curbstomp Taki and Ayane beat her. I didn't say that. I just stated that Kasumi has most of Taki's attributes and operates on a higher level overall.

No, you said Kasumi has done everything Taki has on a higher level which is false, your overhyping.

Originally posted by StyleTime

They didn't throw those things through walls though.

Yeah, I am saying a normal person can do that. Remy Bonjasky swept someone with a round kick in real life.

I never denied a real person can sweep, but they can through kunai's at solid obejects as well. The point of a kunai has a very small surface area which makes it easy to puncture. Furthermore it's about technique not strength.

Originally posted by StyleTime

I thought we already settled Taki's teleport. She has to used hand signs to do it. If she starts posing, Ayane can lodge a kunai in her skull. Taki will probably stop the signs and block the kunai, but she'll know not to try teleporting again. Taki's teleport is useless here unlike Ayane's.

She doesn't have to teleport, all she has to do is delfect said kunai' like she did with Ivy's blades. Ayane wil not be able to counter a sword attack from Taki like you make it seem.

Originally posted by StyleTime

Jobbing is different. When you job, you actually have feats and victories to back up the fact that your loss was illogical. Consistantly losing is a bit different. As I've said before, I [B]don't prefer win record to advantages. Both should be accounted. The problem for Taki is that Ayane has her beat in both areas. [/B]

No, she doesn't, Ayane has only beaten three people while Taki has beaten over five. Nevermind that all her feats for the most part have been replicated before by Taki. So, what win advantage are you talking about?

Originally posted by StyleTime

I didn't say you said anything in spite. I just asked why my response to that be unreasonable. I didn't accuse anyone of bashing Ayane at all. I said she was being underrated....which she is.

You said I had a disdain for Ayane, and claimed I revived threads in spite. I can quote, and no one's underrating her, stop whining.

Originally posted by StyleTime

The fire isn't just going to burn dirt as you already know. I am still how do account for the fact that [b]everything including the trees, area on which Ayane is standing, and the incline of the the place have all be destroyed? The only option other than Ayane weathering it either fire or a force blast, is that she moves faster than sight. If the latter is true, then Ayane obviously wins in a stomp. However, I don't think her speed being that great is likely.[/B]

False Dichotomy, my dude. We do not know how many options Ayane had or what she did. So, why are you making it seem that she dodged at faster than sight speeds? Infact, show me her dodging the flame.

Plus, the point had nothing to do with dirt burning. If she was immersed in fire, where is the fire that's supposed to be around her?

Originally posted by StyleTime

The funny thing is, even if we take out the Genra thing.....OH JEEZ Ayane STILL has the advantage!

Because your hyping her up.

Honestly the 2 of you are convincing me. Oxymoron statement I know, but it's still the truth.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
Honestly the 2 of you are convincing me. Oxymoron statement I know, but it's still the truth.

what do you mean?

It's like...I read StyleTime's argument...and I then start giving Ayane the most wins...then I read your counters and I start giving Taki the most wins...rofl.

I agree with Emp.