Originally posted by Alfheim
You're going off on a tangent. The fact of the matter is this, saying that somebody beat Rhino does not count because he always loses. What you need to do is give an example of a character is better represented in the comics.Cap is not PIS driven you need to do some research on peak humans.
Originally posted by Alfheim
You're going off on a tangent. The fact of the matter is this, saying that somebody beat Rhino does not count because he always loses. What you need to do is give an example of a character is better represented in the comics.Cap is not PIS driven you need to do some research on peak humans.
ummmm
ALL comics are PIS driven because, ALL comics rely on a plot.
If it wasn't stupid, and it was realistic (which appears to be the opposite of PIS on these boards) then a bunch of guys with m 16s would have killed EVERY SINGLE HERO/VILLIAN that isnt immune or faster than the bullets (im not talking about bullet dodging).
yes, this is a tangent, but its really plain and simple, feats are used to get a basic idea of the powerset of a character and from there it is debated, weather they win or loose is irrelevant.
Should Rhino beat aunt may? by your logic, no, because even though he ia a class 80 capable of haning with the Hulk, he always loses.
Wow, that sure doesnt sound like PIS to me
And as to you last point. Peak Humans are, BY FAR, the most PIS centered heroes in all comics. There are scans of cap BENCHING over a ton. Nothing Cap/Batman/Daredevil do is comparable to peak level humans, and much of it is impossible given the limits of the human physiology.
Originally posted by inamilistShould Rhino beat aunt may? by your logic, no, because even though he ia a class 80 capable of haning with the Hulk, he always loses.
Please use you're head and dont use extreme examples like that. You use some common sense if Rhino loses all the time how are you going to tell wether its a good feat for somebody to beat him? Please stop wasting my time and use a better example.
Cap has been able to hurt Abomination, thats PIS, but its not PIS for him to beat Crossbones. Again apply some common sense
Originally posted by inamilist
And as to you last point. Peak Humans are, BY FAR, the most PIS centered heroes in all comics.
Mantis can knock out people beings as strong as Thor, her bio says so! Therefore its not PIS those are her capabilities, it also means that other humans can do it with enough training.
Originally posted by inamilist
There are scans of cap BENCHING over a ton. Nothing Cap/Batman/Daredevil do is comparable to peak level humans, and much of it is impossible given the limits of the human physiology.
So what? Therefore that means that Peak humans can lift over a ton. You want to compare humans in the real world to those in the MU, when people like Dr Doom can build a time machine but you want to get upset because Cap can lift over a ton?
This is what I mean you obvoulsy dont understand the concept of peak human.
Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
Cap has by far the biggest jobber aura in the entire Marvel Universe. People always lose half of their powers while fighting him, and fight like an untrained monkey.
Sometimes but that happens with other characters as well. Hell I just saw some scans were Spiderman got beaten up but he should have died
Originally posted by Alfheim
Please use you're head and dont use extreme examples like that. You use some common sense if Rhino loses all the time how are you going to tell wether its a good feat for somebody to beat him? Please stop wasting my time and use a better example.Cap has been able to hurt Abomination, thats PIS, but its not PIS for him to beat Crossbones. Again apply some common sense
Mantis can knock out people beings as strong as Thor, her bio says so! Therefore its not PIS those are her capabilities, it also means that other humans can do it with enough training.
So what? Therefore that means that Peak humans can lift over a ton. You want to compare humans in the real world to those in the MU, when people like Dr Doom can build a time machine but you want to get upset because Cap can lift over a ton?
This is what I mean you obvoulsy dont understand the concept of peak human.
achually, one of my main points was that the idea of Peak Human is PIS, it seems we agree on this, if through differant language
but, the brunt of what I was saying has to do with the fact that you said "The Rhino doesn't count because he always looses".
Well, like many other things, the fact that the Rhino always loses is PIS. There are many people who should have not lost to him, one such being the Phil Urich Green Goblin.
You are right that it is a bad example, I was just trying to tie what I knew into the argument, as I am way more familiar with GG Phil than GG osborn
in the end, as i said before, the fact that Phil can dodge projectiles from the Rhino has nothing to do with the weather Osborn can dodge the caps shield.
Achually, there is no way for us to know weather osborn can dodge the shield, because it has never occured in the comics, and even if it did it is subject of the bias and scrutiny of the editors, artists and writers.
What we can do however, is look at past examples from other comics to try and make comclusions.
So, GG dodging a rhino projectile. Says nothing about osborn vs Cap, however, it shows a feat about the mobility and dodging capabilities of THE WORST Goblin.
I haven't read such stupidity in a long time. It takes all of Spidey's skill, agility, precog sense and weapons to dodge/disarm Cap's shield. Green Gobber's got no chance. Pure projectile-speed wise, Cap has thrown his shield to destroy attack choppers and ICBM missiles from BEHIND.
This is a four panel fight at best. Goblin zooms in on Cap and throws a pumpkin bomb, with his finger laser ready to followup. Cap blocks the explosion with his shield but the blast from the debris obscures Goblin's view of Cap. Instead of just throwing another bomb knowing that it'd be useless with Cap's indestructible and force dampening shield, Goblin makes a pass with his glider to clear away the dust cloud to gain a better view. As he makes his pass, Cap leaves his shield behind, jumps on Osborn's glider, digs into its circuitry with supersoldier strength causing him to crash. If this happens in a Cap comic, Cap leaps straight onto the glider behind Osborn, grabs a pumpkin bomb, arms it and stuff it back in his bag before Osborn knocks him off. Osborn goes boom and crashes again... this time in flames.
Cap's jobber aura works because nearly all his opponents underestimate him and that's why they fight like idiots. First half of everybody's fight with Cap is them thinking in thought bubbles, "Zounds. how can a mere man strike with such force?!" or "Good lord. What kind of inhuman speed is this?!" or "Blast! How can one man be so skilled with such a simple weapon?!" By that time, Ccap has set up his manuever and goes on to win. It ain't PIS, it's the arrogance of his opponents and Cap always capitalizes. Only way Osborn wins is if he considers Cap to be much more threatening than Spidey and starts raining bombs down on innocents forcing Cap to save people and then whacking him from behind while he's distracted. That's cheating, but Osborn's thrown dem b1tches off of bridges so I woouldn't put it above him.
Cap 8/10