Re: The Punisher is Superhuman. It's official!!!!
Originally posted by Alfheim
I got this from Marvel.com about The Punisher. This is for all you who say The Punisher cant hit Spiderman (This does not mean he can beat Spiderman by the way):
1) Marvel.com, along with handbooks are not definitive sources. It is heartbreaking, totally asinine that they dont have accurate info on their sites or in their books, but thats the way it is.
It is WAY more likely that people like us on these boards have a greater ammount and diversity of knowledge about these characters, and we have set our own criteria for how to deem certain things, outside of the official word.
Now, the ONLY reason we do this, is because, in MANY MANY cases, the info on the site or in the books is not reliable. Basically, the comics contridict the handbooks and vice-versa. Here there is more importance placed upon in book feats, though to try and eliminate certain writer biases we use handbooks or official statements. There is a balance that is needed, but failing any in book reason to assume that the Punisher is not human, he is human.
2) The reason that Punisher CAN'T hit spiderman has nothing to do with either his classification of human or with his aim. a)In comics, guns always job and b) Spiderman has a spidersense.
Basically, punisher or any other gunman cannot hit spiderman because he knows he is going to be shot before he is and it thus, able to react before the shot is fired. This means, that even if frank had god like aim, it is redundant, because he can never get a clear shot at spidey (This is the explination of how the SS works, I don't necessarily buy this, but it is one of those maxims in comics, it has to be true that this is how spiderman works).
Realistically, you wouldnt even need increadably accurate aim to shoot spidey. Provided he starts far enough away, and you know how to fire a weapon at a moving target. In a real world version of the Marvel U, Punisher would be one of the most powerful characters.
Basically, even if frank was the greatest marksman in the universe, physics in the marvel universe, as they pertain to spiderman, basically state that he can avoid bullets indefinatly. It also says this for characters like Daredevil and Captain America, however this is normally pushed aside as the PIS it is.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Additionally, he is a preternaturally-precise marksman.This is from a dictionary site:
preternatural
[B]1. out of the ordinary course of nature; exceptional or abnormal: preternatural powers.
2. outside of nature; supernatural.
[/B]
To begin with, your argument is ridiculous. The site DOES NOT USE THE WORD SUPERHUMAN.
In fact, it uses a word like preternatural
now, ill let this definition stand, though recommend people look up a more explicitive description of the word, especially why it is not the same as SUPERnatural.
Preternatural, like supernatural, deals with things that are not "natural". Whereas supernatural deals with things like the divine or magic, preternatural deals with more plausable, almost more of the "extremeties" of real.
For instance, someone with the same ability to smell as well a dog can, would be said to have a beyond natural sense of smell. While supernatural CAN be used, it is MORE correct to use preternatural (unless you are saying that it is a God given super power or something for this person to smell at beyond human levels).
Now, why would Marvel go out of their way to use an obscure word that means ALMOST the same thing as supernatural? BECAUSE THEY DIDNT WANT TO USE SUPERNATURAL.
Yes, they wish to imply that the punisher has better aim than any human, they wish to say that it is so good it shouldn't be human. However, the fact that they use the "preter" rather than "super" shows that they are specifically stating that there is no real unhuman signifigance to this. By not using "super" they are trying to say that Frank really is human, if capable of doing things beyond human capacity.
Originally posted by Alfheim
I keep telling you clowns that talents can be a substitute for powers with humans
I dont think anyone is arguing this with you.
talents and powers should be synonimus, especially in human level characters.
However, this says nothing for the degree of the power, and more importantly, words like "superhuman" are normally given because of the origin of the powers and not their proficency.
Punisher has had no super soldier serums, no injuries that have effected has aiming capacity, no cybernetic augmentations. He is a human. That doesnt mean he can't aim like a badass mofo, it just means he is human.
Achually, your argument doesnt follow to your thesis here. If the punisher is human, then yes, sure, his aiming talent can be a "power", but if he is superhuman as you suggest, then why even include this? Certainly he isnt a superhuman BECAUSE of his talent, since that would be akin to me saying Wayne Gretzky or Micheal Jordan are superhuman simply because there are no other people out there that are as talented as they are (or were).
Punisher is preter-human, not super-human. He is a human capable of doing things naturally that normal humans can only dream of, but he is no more than a human.
Originally posted by Alfheim
and heres the proof!
wow, you went to all the trouble to look up preternatural but not proof
makes me think you have never had to use logic in an argument.....