"Mindless Hulk" was completely devoid of Banner's mind.
No humanity in him at all.
Nothing but pure mindless never-ending rage....
...and the madder Hulk gets.....you know the rest.
I thought this was a good story. It really showed just how strong
Hercules is. He was clearly the one leading the charge.
His shots at Hulk were awesome.
Originally posted by Accel
So what, that's it? I had to debate this in an inane cycle and no one who believes it was PIS or jobbing wants to debate their points as to why they believe so?How disappointing.
And you was the one who was leading this inane circle.
"Plot Induced Stupidity, or PIS, is when characters don't use their abilities or skills to the fullest extent as shown before, even within their personality ranges, for the sake of the story plotline..."
Ironman didn't use a single weapon his armour had, only once tried rays. Doesn't look like him. Namor wasn't using his superior speed, flight and 100 year of experience to avoid attacks but was charging like an idiot. And the team never tried to attack him all together. Only once. Doesn't this sound like a stupidity to you?
Anyway, i didn't felt like debating this because you already know my arguments and my opinion didn't changed since then.
And what was the point of the thread anyway? You thought that voting would somehow prove you right? If so then, this is stupid. In Hulk vs Juggernaut thread majority voted for Hulk, but it doesn't make it truth.
So creating this thread and saying "how disappointing" that i don't give a **** looks like a desperate, childish try to prove something.
All right, now we’re getting somewhere.
Originally posted by Sam Z
Ironman didn't use a single weapon his armour had, only once tried rays. Doesn't look like him.
Originally posted by Sam Z
Namor wasn't using his superior speed, flight and 100 year of experience to avoid attacks but was charging like an idiot.
Originally posted by Sam Z
And the team never tried to attack him all together. Only once. Doesn't this sound like a stupidity to you?
Originally posted by Sam Z
And what was the point of the thread anyway? You thought that voting would somehow prove you right? If so then, this is stupid. In Hulk vs Juggernaut thread majority voted for Hulk, but it doesn't make it truth.
The poll’s just there for the people who are too lazy to write an explanation but not lazy enough to answer a yes or no question.
Originally posted by Sam Z
So creating this thread and saying "how disappointing" that i don't give a **** looks like a desperate, childish try to prove something.
Originally posted by AccelNo we are not. We are running circles around same old stuff. And everything we will discuss here we already discussed on another thread, so i still don't see the rpoint why you made this thread, especially on the vs forum.
All right, now we’re getting somewhere.
Originally posted by Accel
What would it matter? His rays never affect Hulk any way. Hell, recently they didn’t even affect Namor.He was dehydrated due to the desert heat. What, you expect him to judo toss Hulk into submission?
He keeps hitting them away every time they get near. Attacking him at once would just get the same results.
This fight is completly built on stupidities and noone except Hulk was fighting at their full potential, not even half of their potential only to allow Hulk give them a fight.
Originally posted by Accel
That’s why I asked people to explain the reasoning behind their opinions. Overall, I wanted to see a general consensus of the issue and maybe have a little discussion about it.
And we have some logical arguments going on here.
Originally posted by AccelFor somereason i got feeling that this poll made for another purposes... But no comments.
The poll’s just there for the people who are too lazy to write an explanation but not lazy enough to answer a yes or no question.
Originally posted by Accel
That’s nice. Y’all come back now real soon, y’hear.
Originally posted by Sam Z
No we are not. We are running circles around same old stuff. And everything we will discuss here we already discussed on another thread, so i still don't see the rpoint why you made this thread, especially on the vs forum.
Originally posted by Sam Z
The point is that IM didn't use any weapons excpet for the rays, and he tried them only once. [B]And he didn't even tried to use anything else. That's not like him, especially when he fights powerfull oponnents, so i call that stupidity. Namor was shown to stay fresh for long time on the ground and for someone who can lift a building to judo Hulk was not supposed to be a problem. And being out of water doesn't effects years of his fighting exp but he was still charging like a dumb bull. That i call stupidity also.[/B]
Originally posted by Sam Z
This fight is completly built on stupidities and noone except Hulk was fighting at their full potential, not even half of their potential only to allow Hulk give them a fight.
If the lineup included someone like Thor or Sersi, you’d have a point, but it didn’t, so you don’t.
Originally posted by Sam Z
You said you'd [B]appreciate opinions, but when i don't respond because i see this thread pointless you make childish post that you are dissapointed. What kind of appreciation is that and what kind of way to debate is that? From what i know you made this thread to hear other's people's opinion, and not to argue them. So here, i posted my opinion, I say it's PIS because team wasn't using their ussual powers and abilities to fight Hulk, just to let him give them a fight. and instead of listening to it and respect my opinion you start pointless debates that eill not get us anywhere. [/B]
That's basically the point of every thread posted on this forums.
Originally posted by Sam Z
No we are not. We are running circles around same old stuff. And everything we will discuss here we already discussed on another thread, so i still don't see the rpoint why you made this thread, especially on the vs forum.The point is that IM didn't use any weapons excpet for the rays, and he tried them only once. [B]And he didn't even tried to use anything else. That's not like him, especially when he fights powerfull oponnents, so i call that stupidity.
Namor was shown to stay fresh for long time on the ground and for someone who can lift a building to judo Hulk was not supposed to be a problem. And being out of water doesn't effects years of his fighting exp but he was still charging like a dumb bull. That i call stupidity also.
When they attacked him together they were not using their personal advantages and abilities to take him down, they were always jumping at him at once like an idiots or attacking him 1 on 1 while others were standing and watching.This fight is completly built on stupidities and noone except Hulk was fighting at their full potential, not even half of their potential only to allow Hulk give them a fight.
You said you'd appreciate opinions, but when i don't respond because i see this thread pointless you make childish post that you are dissapointed. What kind of appreciation is that and what kind of way to debate is that? From what i know you made this thread to hear other's people's opinion, and not to argue them. So here, i posted my opinion, I say it's PIS because team wasn't using their ussual powers and abilities to fight Hulk, just to let him give them a fight. and instead of listening to it and respect my opinion you start pointless debates that eill not get us anywhere.
For somereason i got feeling that this poll made for another purposes... But no comments.😆 So now it's not "your opinion is appreciated" but "you b!tch will respond on this. like it or not"? Man, grow up already. [/B]
Dude before you started to reply, and call it pis and all.
Question do you know what's wrong with this hulk you see in those pics???
He is missing something, but what???
Something very important.
And wenn you figured it out, you see why this is not pis.
Originally posted by AccelI don't think so. We already had a thread to debate this, so there was no point to create another one.
Better here than the other thread then, right?
Originally posted by Accel
All right, Tony blasts him. Nothing changes. Namor gives him a flurry of punches in his dehydrated state. Nothing changes.
Now, don't take this fight to hard. I simply gave one out of 100s examples of what could happen. And my point is that if they fought at their REAL abilities then avoiding Hulk's attacks and defeating him wouldn't have been a problem.
Originally posted by AccelBrawlers and streetlevelers?😬 Wonderman, IM and Namor are just another streetlevelers and brawlers? They are EXTREMLY powerfull being and fighting geniuses if you ask me, with years of exp and unbelievable gadgets.
It was a bunch of brawlers and street levelers. All they could really do was punch him.
Originally posted by AccelOh yes I do have a point, you know you should check respect threads sometimes. Hercules is another streetleveler to you?
If the lineup included someone like Thor or Sersi, you’d have a point, but it didn’t, so you don’t.
Originally posted by AccelWell there are other people that have different opinions except me, so why you felt like saying that you are "dissapointed". People do not say such things if they just interested in someone's opinions and want to debate opinions they appreciated to hear.
I wanted to see the general consensus, but of course I wanted to debate with any differing opinions. Otherwise, this thread wouldn’t be very interesting, now would it?That's basically the point of every thread posted on this forums.
Originally posted by BrutacusDude, I started replying on this like a week ago, so you are a bit late.
Dude before you started to reply, and call it pis and all.
Originally posted by Brutacus
Question do you know what's wrong with this hulk you see in those pics???He is missing something, but what???
Something very important.
And wenn you figured it out, you see why this is not pis.
Originally posted by Sam Z
Dude, I started replying on this like a week ago, so you are a bit late.What? He lost his pants or something? lol Missing what? If you have something important to say then say it. No need to play hide'n'seek.
Euh yeah sure yesterday is a week ago 🙄 .
Second that's mindless hulk.
Originally posted by Brutacus
Euh yeah sure yesterday is a week ago 🙄 .Second that's mindless hulk.
Firstly I started debating this fight almost a week ago on another thread, and that was the reason why Accel created this one. So yes, week ago.
And second, that Hulk is missing something and there is something wrong with him because he is Mindless? Man, what are you taling about?
Originally posted by Sam Z
I don't think so. We already had a thread to debate this, so there was no point to create another one.
Originally posted by Sam Z
So you want scenario? Ok.
Ironman blasts him with rays in the eyes and blinds him for few seconds. Hercules and Wonderman grab his arms, Namor kicks him in the balls. And Ironman performs his suit-energy-draining punch to really hurt Hulk (and IM himself falls uncouncios). If Hulk isn't koed yet then all together they beat the crap outta him while he's on the ground.
And if they start beating him up when he’s down, he’s just going to get back up and they start from square one.
Originally posted by Sam Z
Now, don't take this fight to hard. I simply gave one out of 100s examples of what could happen. And my point is that if they fought at their REAL abilities then avoiding Hulk's attacks and defeating him wouldn't have been a problem.
Originally posted by Sam Z
Brawlers and streetlevelers?😬 Wonderman, IM and Namor are just another streetlevelers and brawlers? They are EXTREMLY powerfull being and fighting geniuses if you ask me, with years of exp and unbelievable gadgets.
Originally posted by Sam Z
Oh yes I do have a point, you know you should check respect threads sometimes. Hercules is another streetleveler to you?
And Hercules is one of the previously mentioned brawlers. When I say “street-leveler,” I’m referring to Captain America, Tigra, and Black Knight. They were there too.
Originally posted by Sam Z
Well there are other people that have different opinions except me, so why you felt like saying that you are "dissapointed". People do not say such things if they just interested in someone's opinions and want to debate opinions they appreciated to hear.
Originally posted by Sam Z
Firstly [B]I started debating this fight almost a week ago on another thread, and that was the reason why Accel created this one. So yes, week ago.
And second, that Hulk is missing something and there is something wrong with him because he is Mindless? Man, what are you taling about? [/B]
Like I'm going to look on the forum, for you're posts?????
Dude I'm not in love with you so that I will read all you're post like a stalker. 🙄 .
I got better things to do.
Second iff you don't know mindless hulk than why bother to come in to this thread and start debating????
I mean you're debating a character you don't know???
Kind off strange iff you ask me. 😕
Originally posted by AccelOk, whatever.
It wasn't on topic. Here, it is.
Originally posted by AccelYeah, IM blasted him once with rays and then started whining. Wonderman ALONE tried to wrestle Hulk, Namor tried the same. They are not dumb, Accel. But they clearly fought as dumb as never before, so I have reasons to say that this fight was PIS. If they fought as a team at their full abilities everything would've happend just like in scenario i described above.
Tony already blasted him in the face in that fight with no effect. Wonderman did grab his arm at least once and was just thrown off. Heck, Namor even attacks him from behind at one point to get the upper hand and just gets backhanded.
Originally posted by AccelNot after IM's suit's-energy-draining punch. This alone might have worked, plus weapons and 3 class 100 character would've finished him for sure.
And if they start beating him up when he’s down, he’s just going to get back up and they start from square one.
Originally posted by AccelObviously they weren't using any of them. Namor used flight only to charge at Hulk and that is plain stupid. IM only ONCE tried rays, instead of blasting him with everything he got. That's stupid as well. And instead of punching Hulk all together they tried to wrestle him 1 by 1. That's also stupid.
Their real abilities were flying, punching, and blasting. Obviously, it wasn’t enough.
Originally posted by AccelOh my bad, i thought you said Hercules is a streetleveler. As for Captain and others, i didn't really counted their presence. There is nothing they could do to Hulk in well written story. But i was talking about powerhouses like IM, WM and Herc. Respect threads pretty much show characters at their full potential.
Essentially they are brawlers, meaning with the exception of Iron Man, they weren’t very versatile. All they could do was blast him and punch him. Nothing more.I’ve seen them all. Respect threads only hold some much weight in a debate or else each top-tier would be able to go up against upper-cosmic threats on a daily basis.
And Hercules is one of the previously mentioned brawlers. When I say “street-leveler,” I’m referring to Captain America, Tigra, and Black Knight. They were there too.
Originally posted by AccelC'mone man, i'm not dumb. That was clearly adressed to me.
And they are also welcome to debate their points as well. And I was disappointed when no one wanted to do so.
Originally posted by BrutacusAnd who's asking you to read my post or reply on them? You quoted me when i said that i was debating this topic for week, and it's not my problem that you haven't read my posts. Nobody asks you to do that.
Like I'm going to look on the forum, for you're posts?????
Dude I'm not in love with you so that I will read all you're post like a stalker. 🙄 .
I got better things to do.
Originally posted by BrutacusJust in case, I clearly know about mindless Hulk more than you do. You asked me if there is "something wrong" with Hulk, and there was nothing "wrong" with him. So it's about your question, not my knowledge.
Second iff you don't know mindless hulk than why bother to come in to this thread and start debating????I mean you're debating a character you don't know???
Kind off strange iff you ask me. 😕
Originally posted by Sam Z
Yeah, IM blasted him once with rays and then started whining. Wonderman ALONE tried to wrestle Hulk, Namor tried the same. They are not dumb, Accel. But they clearly fought as dumb as never before, so I have reasons to say that this fight was PIS. If they fought as a team at their full abilities everything would've happend just like in scenario i described above.
When they started fighting him, what would you have expected them to do? Get into a huddle and come up with a plan while Hulk just sits there waiting for them? And I already explained why that scenario wouldn’t have worked.
The main problem is, the team only had super-strong brawlers, which unless they were vastly stronger than Hulk form the start, isn’t the best way to go when fighting him.
Originally posted by Sam Z
Not after IM's suit's-energy-draining punch. This alone might have worked, plus weapons and 3 class 100 character would've finished him for sure.
Originally posted by Sam Z
Obviously they weren't using any of them. Namor used flight only to charge at Hulk and that is plain stupid. IM only ONCE tried rays, instead of blasting him with everything he got. That's stupid as well. And instead of punching Hulk all together they tried to wrestle him 1 by 1. That's also stupid.
What else could Namor do? Go in with a flying kick? Would have had the same results.
Originally posted by Sam Z
Oh my bad, i thought you said Hercules is a streetleveler. As for Captain and others, i didn't really counted their presence. There is nothing they could do to Hulk in well written story. But i was talking about powerhouses like IM, WM and Herc.
Originally posted by Sam Z
Respect threads pretty much show characters at their full potential.
Originally posted by Sam Z
C'mone man, i'm not dumb. That was clearly adressed to me.
Originally posted by Accel
IM blasted him and then was jumped upon. Had his armor peeled as well.When they started fighting him, what would you have expected them to do? Get into a huddle and come up with a plan while Hulk just sits there waiting for them? And I already explained why that scenario wouldn’t have worked.
The main problem is, the team only had super-strong brawlers, which unless they were vastly stronger than Hulk form the start, isn’t the best way to go when fighting him.
That same punch wouldn’t have worked on a more durable Hulk that wasn’t already stunned. And as I’ve said before, Hulk’s more than durable enough to take that. Getting pounded upon and he would have thrown them off and had gotten up.
Blasting him with every thing wouldn’t have done any thing either. And Tony only used them once because after he used them, his armor was ripped to pieces.
What else could Namor do? Go in with a flying kick? Would have had the same results.
Which is why I brought up the point that the team was only brawlers and stree-levelers, instead of there being versatile powerhouses like Thor.
Well, Hulk’s respect thread shows him holding his own against the Avengers on multiple occasions, so…
Well, duh. But apparently some people agree with you, according to the poll, if even only a few.
Sorry for not responding long. I had some problems to deal with and had no time to write a proper answer. I know you wanted it to be a discussion but I'll be busy further as well and won't have time to debate in two threads at the same time, so I'll just sum up my personal opinion.
IMO this fight was PIS.
My reasons:
Both WM and Hercules are experienced fighters, Namor has century of fighting experience, IM is plain genius. And each of them proved that many times over and over. But in this fight IMO they weren't fighting at their full potential, not even at half of their potential. They weren't using team advantage, nor speed advantage, IM wasn't using his technology.(one stupid rays blast doesn't count). So IMO if they were fighting at their best and using their advantages properly they would've won the fight without much trouble. Once again, this is only my personal opinion, and i hope you'd respect it and won't start arguing it again to drag me into making further responds, because I really have lack of spare time lately.
Thank you.
That second match was bad writting all around. Plain and simple.
- Hercules virtually stalemates a more fresh Hulk one on one but with backup doesnt do better.
- And while it can be explained that Hulk gets stronger as it gets going (making him stronger in the second match than the first), it was stated by Samson, before he went against the Bi-Coast Avengers that Hulk was...dying. So still, they cant take with superior numbers a Hulk that is dying.
- Hulk didnt knocked out a single soul. None. Nada.
- Hulk, the "strongest Hulk to date" as its practically sold by some of the fanbase, took 6 straigth hours to lay Samson down and the man wasent even out.
- Streeth Leverers? They all survive.
- That chinese woman from the Hulk hunters or some hack? She did better in laying Hulk down with a single move than most Avengers.
- Avengers forgot everything about teamwork until the last moment.
Not one person outside that chinese (?) whatshername had a good showing in that one.
Well, Samson did, in fact that arc gave him pretty much one of his best showings ever.