Obession Ventress, Kar Vastor and ROTS Obi-Wan vs. ROTS Anakin and Dooku
Who wins? Mace said Vastor had power on Anakin or Yoda's level but it would remain untrained. Ventress was one amazing powerhouse who got even more powerful with the implants and Obi-Wan's no slouch. The trio take on Anakin and Dooku as we saw them at the beginning of Revenge of the Sith.
Mace also said that he wouldn't have been able to beat Vastor on his best day. I'm not sure who'll win this. It really depends on the location. If it's in the Harrun Kal jungles, he could beat Dooku. Let's say that Anakin and Obi-Wan are held at a stalemate for some time. I'm sure that Ventress had gotten much better than from the time that the CW cartoons depict her. With Vastor, they could take on Dooku (if on Harrun Kal). Vastor's superior strength and younger age could play a crucial role in this fight.
Meh, I'm not sure at all! 😖 This is one hard fight to decide.
Kar was only better than Mace because they were on Harrun Kal basically, although good and probably a match for anyone here, he is not as good as the top dogs here IMO.....
I bet Dooku could fight both Ventress and Kenobi, especially if he mangaed to pull of a kick-choke-toss thing. He is above both of them in force abilities and saber abilities, and we saw that even with Anakin (who is superior to Assaj) they couldn't team kill Dooku, so I doubt these will. And neither can take him alone.
Anakin would beat Kar after a hard duel.
That's only one way, but I'm to tired to write anymore.
Originally posted by kamikz
Kar was only better than Mace because they were on Harrun Kal basically, although good and probably a match for anyone here, he is not as good as the top dogs here IMO.....I bet Dooku could fight both Ventress and Kenobi, especially if he mangaed to pull of a kick-choke-toss thing. He is above both of them in force abilities and saber abilities, and we saw that even with Anakin (who is superior to Assaj) they couldn't team kill Dooku, so I doubt these will. And neither can take him alone.
Anakin would beat Kar after a hard duel.
That's only one way, but I'm to tired to write anymore.
Yeah, Once again...as usual Kamkiz speaks nothing but the truth.
Brilliant Debator. 😉
Kar's Shields and agility can give him good time against Dooku. I don't believe Dooku can handle Kar and someone else. That leaves Anakin against his former master and Ventress is extra. Anakin will be hard-pressed by Kenobi and Dooku will be fighting a good fight against Vastor. I see Ventress helping Kar.
From the way I see it, I see Dooku getting killed and then the duo wtf pwning Kenobi.
Of course, that's only assuming Count Dooku takes on Kar Vastor. If, like in kamikz's account, he were to take on Asajj and Obi-Wan instead, then Count Dooku can tool Asajj Ventress with comical ease if he were to utilize the Force, as was displayed in Dark Rendezvous:
"Her face went pale. Dooku lifted that one finger, and this time he tapped it in the air, as if pushing a needle into a pincushion. Ventress crumpled to her knees. Her voice came out clotted with pain. Dooku made another little patting motion, and Ventress slammed to the tile floor."
This would indicate extreme dominance, and superiority over Asajj Ventress in terms of the Force. Count Dooku is also the better duelist, so I'd say were Obi-Wan and Asajj to take on Count Dooku, she'd be tooled. Likewise, Obi-Wan would also lose to the power of Dooku, whether it's a prolonged duel, or with the Force. Most likely the latter given that his experience with facing Obi-Wan would dictate that it's Obi-Wan weakness.
As for Vastor and Skywalker, I'd agree with kamikz that it'd be a hard fought duel, but Anakin would more than likely emerge the victor if it's not on Haruun Kul. Even if the duel is still going on, Count Dooku would thus be free, and aid Anakin. Together, the RotS duo would more than likely win in that scenario.
Originally posted by Prodigal Knight
From the way I see it, I see Dooku getting killed and then the duo wtf pwning Kenobi.
Why would the "duo" [Asajj and Vastor] attack Obi-Wan? He is on their team, you know. 😛
And if perhaps, Kar engaged Dooku instead, and Asajj helped - I'm not sure. Anakin should be able to defeat Obi-Wan by quite a considerable amount of time less than their duel in RotS was, depending on the setting. The more important thing is the mindset of Anakin.
When the OP said that Anakin and Dooku were as we saw them in the beginning of RotS, I'd assume he meant the phrenic state, as well, which was described as being "clear as a crystal bell". In that case, then he would definitely defeat Obi-Wan, albeit through a decent duel.
I don't even know much about Kar Vastor to make an accurate assumption towards this scenario (mainly the time), but I can only gauge that he's not as powerful as Count Dooku while not on Haruun Kul. Nonetheless, from what is said, he'd apparently give him a good duel. If Asajj could add in strength to Vastor, and defeat Count Dooku than Anakin will probably go down to the remaining duo (assuming Obi-Wan's dead at this point).
However, if Obi-Wan is dead, and Dooku is still fighting Vastor and Asajj - I can see Team Skywalker taking it, as Anakin would come to the rescue.
Originally posted by darthsith19
As we saw in ROTS Kenobi ios capable of holding off Anakin for a long time, if not win.
As we saw in RotS, Obi-Wan was capable of holding off Anakin for numerous reasons, which may or may not be inclusive of this duel:
- Lava skating.
- Platform jumping.
- Wire fighting.
- Climb fighting.
- Giving constant ground (more or less, strategically running away).
In addition, Anakin's mind was nigh completely warped. The Dark side had overrun his train of thought, and instead of using his anger as a weapon as he did against Dooku earlier in the movie, in essence, he choose to just attack with blind rage.
As Anakin was in the beginning of RotS, and if the duel setting is somewhere like the Invisible Hand (rather somewhere with nowhere to run, no obstacles, etc.) - then Obi-Wan more than likely cannot beat Anakin, and he will not be able to hold him off that long dependant upon the location. Even if it were to be the Mustafar duel revisited, Anakin more than likely wouldn't let his arrogance overcome him in the sense he did at the end of the battle. And nevertheless come out the victor in a singular sense.
True, but Obi-Wan totally KNOWS Anakin, from his personality to fighting style. I believe he can hold him off for about 2 minutes or around that time. Anakin would want to go for somebody superior since he's arrogant and such.
Kar Vastor is extremely skilled in Vibroshieds. He would give Dooku a good fight, and with Ventress enough to overwhelm.
Of course, it depends on who's fighting whom. I mean ROTS Anakin could go fight Ventress and kill her in like thirty seconds and attack Obi-Wan. But then during that time, Kenobi and Vastor would fight Dooku and might kill him.
It's all a big puzzle, but I am going with the trio after a hard fight from Ani and Tyrannus.
Originally posted by darthsith19
Nope, GL says the reason is Obi-Wan knew Anakin's moves almsot as well as he knew his own, which will make him able to hold off Anakin for a long time no matter what the terrain is or what's going through Anakin's mind.
Firstly, quote and source. Secondly, does George Lucas say this is the only reason the duel lasted as long as it did? Because that's what I was arguing, as you seem to imply that the duel would last that long (and that he'd possibly win, too).
Thirdly, show me where I ever said that Obi-Wan will be obliterated in a matter of seconds if the setting or mindset were changed as you seem to imply. All I said is that the duel would not last as long as it did in RotS, and Anakin would win in a shorter amount of time ("considerably less" was what I said, and I'd surmise 2 minutes is considered less than 6). I'd submit what Prodigal came to the conclusion of time is around what I would say, however, where does George Lucas say that "even if it weren't for the setting of Mustafar, Obi-Wan would last five minutes!"?
I see Obi-wan taking out Anakin. Don't give me crap about mindset; it was Anakin's mindset that gave him his huge raw power on Mustafar. Without the mindset he isn't that much better than Obi-wan and would still lose to him in a fight.
And I really can't see Dooku taking on Kar and Ventress at the same time. Kar just has to much raw power.
Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
I see Obi-wan taking out Anakin.
Perhaps you should remove the blindfold then, and tell how you see this happening.
Don't give me crap about mindset; it was Anakin's mindset that gave him his huge raw power on Mustafar.
Well, for one thing: I never gave you any crap about "mindsets" so far, nor have I ever even talked to you about it, but here it is anyways:
It was that very same mindset which got the remaining limbs he had left strewn across the banks of Mustafar. As you can see earlier in RotS, his mindset was using his anger, his hate, his fear - his emotions - as a weapon. Which obviously made a difference, as he was able to defeat one of the best swordsmen of the era in a straight out lightsaber duel (one who's greater than Obi-Wan, mind you).
During the Mustafar duel, he was hardly utilizing them properly, much less the supposed "huge raw power" (which actually, during the duel with Dooku was more impressive), but instead attacking with blind rage and fury. There's obviously a slight difference between the two mindsets, I'd say.
Even so, had the duel continued on an even setting on Mustafar, where do you come to the conclusion that Obi-Wan would even win then? He didn't seem to be fairing supremely well, considering the near 20 second long Dragon Sleeper, and kicks - which by Anakin - had a more apparently devastating feel to them, as opposed to the small boot slips Obi-Wan would hand out (save for tripping him after being missile dropkicked).
In addition, Anakin isn't nearly as rash as he is in the beginning of RotS, commenting twice on using teamwork (something not inclusive of arrogance), and would rather employ "patience" when Obi-Wan, Palpatine, and himself were trapped in the ray shields. So, again, his thoughts were clearly blinded, and even the arrogance of him was provoked by the Dark side (he saved Sidious for Padme, you know, but ended up nearly killing her, and probably assumed his best friend, his proverbially brother, and master ****ed her).
Without the mindset he isn't that much better than Obi-wan and would still lose to him in a fight.
Lose to Obi-Wan? Prove it.
Dooku could last long enough against any one or two of these to realize he has to change his tactic to force attacks. If it were Asajj and Kar that came after him, their speed and youth may give him trouble in finding a way to isolate one with the force. Force lightning would do the trick, though, to either of them, while Anakin and Obi Wan battle it out. Once alone, he could separate himself from his enemy if lightsaber combat was too difficult and use an array of tricks with the force. I say Anakin and Dooku after a tough fight. It would be close, though, and could go either way.
Originally posted by darthsith19
Nope, GL says the reason is Obi-Wan knew Anakin's moves almsot as well as he knew his own, which will make him able to hold off Anakin for a long time no matter what the terrain is or what's going through Anakin's mind.
Anakin knew all of Obi-Wan's as well...
Double. Edged. Sword. 😉