Jack/Liz on the pearl..a sort of marriage?

I know this may be a bit crazy. But was that scene on the pearl a kind of marriage between the two characters...before you call me crazy I'm gonna back what I say up of course.

1. On the Hero's 12 steps Jack is at step 9 during this scene I think and this scene would suggest that its a sort of sacred marriage between the two... a sacred marriage in a movie can be a real marriage or just a scene that suggests the two are bound together forever

9) THE HERO SIEZES THE SWORD.

Having survived death, beaten the dragon, slain the Minotaur, the
hero now takes possession of the treasure he's come seeking.
Sometimes it's a special weapon like a magic sword, or it may be a
token like the Grail or some elixer which can heal the wounded land.

Sometimes the "sword" is knowledge and experience that leads to
greater understanding and a reconciliation with hostile forces.

The hero may settle a conflict with his father or with his shadowy
nemesis. In RETURN OF THE JEDI, Luke is reconciled with both, as he
discovers that the dying Darth Vader is his father, and not such a
bad guy after all.

The hero may also be reconciled with a woman. Often she is the
treasure he's come to win or rescue, and there is often a love scene
or sacred marriage at this point. Women in these stories (or men if
the hero is female) tend to be SHAPE-SHIFTERS. They appear to
change in form or age, reflecting the confusing and constantly
changing aspects of the opposite sex as seen from the hero's point
of view. The hero's supreme ordeal may grant him a better
understanding of women, leading to a reconciliation with the
opposite sex.

2. The curiosity scene.. the discussion turns to marriage..for them to ever be together they have to both be with each other on their own terms..sort of like wedding vows...Liz wants Jack to be the good man..he does by the end, Jack wants Liz to be a pirate, she does by the end

"I always knew you were a good man" - Liz

"pirate" - Jack

She says "I do" by going in to almost kiss him again..in the commentary this is her having to admit she has a desire to be with Jack

he says his "I do" with the look of desire in his eyes and the word "pirate"..THEN she runs..(calypso??)

3. The line " A lady widowed before marriage. Searching for her husband lost at sea"

The definition of the word Widow:

"a woman who has lost her husband by death and has not remarried."

So Liz cant even be a widow before marriage to Will unless she was married to someone else before hand

and who is lost at sea to her and dead at the end? It sure as hell aint Will.

so even she marries Will in AWE..Is she really married to Jack first anyway? Is he the one she will ultimately remain faithful to..because I'm pretty sure she's not as cold hearted as Calypso..

Wow, that's a very interesting theory....I think you might be on to something about Jack and Liz being bound to each other. I think they are and they always will be. Bound together by Fate or something like that...

she's not as cold hearted as calypso..when she leaves him in DMC...all she wants is to bring him back..because he IS a good man..he's a good man that she loves..and in no way is she willing to let this good, honest man be gone from the world forever.

Calypso let Davy and the good man he once was be gone and remain gone it seems

yh.... u might think im dumb but like i dnt rly get who calypso is?

Originally posted by SarahB
yh.... u might think im dumb but like i dnt rly get who calypso is?

she's the one who left Davy Jones and he cut his heart out..

-------------------------------------------------

Here's a greater explanation of the sacred marriage..its interesting because of something that apparently happens to Jack in his purgatory..which I cant really discuss..but it suggests that he needs Liz to make him complete IMO:

This stage is also sometimes referred to "Meeting with the Goddess" or "Woman as the Temptress", these titles can sometimes be misleading since it implies the presence and participation of a female or feminine force. If the hero is a female the SACRED MARRIAGE would be with a male or masculine force. In this stage there may be an actual meeting with the a goddess (Frodo meeting Galadriel, Luke meeting Leia). Or the marriage may be between the two halves of the hero in order to make him or her whole. For instance, the male hero is seeking out the anima, their inner feminine qualities, like intuition, which may have previously remained unrecognized. The female hero will be seeking the animus, the male qualities of reason and authority which she has had to suppress due to society. In either case, the hero will come out of the ordeal whole and complete for the first time in the adventure and it is in this stage that the hero will come to recognize inevitable truths regarding his situation within the scheme of things. It is also at this stage that the "goddess" will grant the hero another boon, that which Nietzsche called amor fati, the love of your fate. This is not fatalism, this is more like taking what is given to you and making the best of it. One of the best ways I've heard it put is in the film adaptation of "The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring" when Gandalf tells Frodo, "So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."

In addition it is a mistake to think that a hero does not need the Goddess. Man is but a half-finished creature. That's why marriage exists. The human animal instinctively seeks out the pair bond because on a subconscious level we know we are flawed half-creatures at best. There is a biological need for the pair-bond when regarding sexual relations, but that is not SACRED MARRIAGE. SACRED MARRIAGE is bringing the two halves together, it is the recreation of the Androgyn. SACRED MARRIAGE is a meeting of souls and not bodies. It is what Yoda is alluding too when he tells Luke, "Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter." It is what people talk about when they claim to have found their soul mate. Myth is the unconscious way of discovering the truth.

Even the stoutest male hero needs the goddess. In "Star Wars: A New Hope", Luke is rash and cocky (ie. "You bet I could, I'm not such a bad pilot myself."😉. He actually thinks that he can succeed at anything he does without calculating the actual risk that goes into the endeavor. It is only after he meets Princess Leia that she adds reason and logic to the adventure. Thus keeping Luke and Han from being completely suicidal. Note that it is Leia that shoots out the wall and leads the escape from the certain death of the detention block hallway. Even though Neo is capable of almost magical feats, when he first battles an Agent, he calls to Trinity for help. It is she who defeats the Agent and strikes him when he is incapable of dodging. The most macho masculine hero I can think of, Conan the Barbarian, needs Valaria to convince the wizard to resurrect him. It is she that pays the Gods, not Subotai. But it works in reverse too. Ripley needs Hicks to remove the Facehugger that is trying to kill her in "Aliens". Although Ripley is a very capable and formidable woman, she and Newt are powerless until Hicks comes to help them.

Also here is something else that happens once the hero faces his supreme ordeal the sacred marriage happens after this usually. Before the sacred marriage there is Apotheosis:

APOTHEOSIS begins with the hero's recognition of of the divine within himself. It is the beginning of the Hero (with a capital "H"😉. It is the beginning of the HERO being able to accomplish that which ordinary men and women cannot. APOTHEOSIS means 'exhaltation to divine rank or stature; deification'. The Hero becomes god like...like unto a god...in the sense that afterwards they are capable of feats and acts which surpass their old selves and other normal beings. The best example I can think of in recent films is in "The Matrix", once Neo comes to recognize the divinity within himself, the power that he already has contained within him, once he believes that he is indeed "the One", then he literally becomes unstoppable. Another APOTHEOSIS story (to a certain extent) is "Harry Potter: And the Sorcerer's Stone", once Harry comes to the realization of the Wizard within him, nothing seems to stand in his way, he wins victory after victory with only minuscule setbacks.

we saw that when Jack came back after his black moment of leaving them all on the pearl..that was the moment where everyone thought Jack as a character had died on them..he comes back and is like a god even with a halo of light there..we then see him fight the kraken with the gun and with the sword

LOL no one is ever interested when I post these kinds of things about the hero's typical journey in a movie 😂

PS thanks Alina and SarahB for replying 😂 😛

Originally posted by LovelyOne
LOL no one is ever interested when I post these kinds of things about the hero's typical journey in a movie 😂

PS thanks Alina and SarahB for replying 😂 😛

No, I think it's very interesting - but unfortunately, TnT said at wordplayer that there is no such thing as a hero's journey in AWE.

im interested 😄

it does make sense 🙂

those two are meant to be with eachother and THAT is the way of it 🙂
Your right when you say that a marriage doesnt technically need to be 'real' ...

what is 'real' though is the obvious tension and chemistry within that scene...love that scene 😄

T&T SAID WHAT?!!?!?!?!?!

AWE is not going to follow the hero's steps?! NO, impossible.

But...that would just shatter alot of our theories, Jack's already gone through most of it, why would they not use it.

Originally posted by Swann&Sparrow
AWE is not going to follow the hero's steps?! NO, impossible.

But...that would just shatter alot of our theories, Jack's already gone through most of it, why would they not use it.

They really did say that, sorry. I remember it so clearly because the hero's journey has been discussed here at length and I was pretty surprised to read they are not going to follow the traditional steps.

Originally posted by Swann&Sparrow
T&T SAID WHAT?!!?!?!?!?!

Ok I apologize before hand, if this sounds rude
But are TnT dumb? Did they went to school to take writing classes???
There's always a hero in a movie and that hero always has to have a journey, the hero always fights for something there is always a main goal that the hero has to accomplish in a movie. I'm sorry but this sounds stupid. Are they retarded. I just cant believe they said that.

By the way Lovely I always enjoy reading your posts. I love them

Originally posted by ladyofthesilent
No, I think it's very interesting - but unfortunately, TnT said at wordplayer that there is no such thing as a hero's journey in AWE.

well its not even a Hero's journey..its just the basic structure of a story..they are bein silly saying that..all characters face a supreme ordeal..Will hasn't yet and I bet he does..I dont think Liz has

they must be following it because they have also said they are splitting the two movies into the 3 acts..and these 3 acts tie in with the typical steps..

I think he might mean no hero as in the noble hero..well he's right its a pirate movie..they all are anti-heros...people who's motives are often for the greater good yet their means to achieve them are against the morals of society

He also said by the end of movie 3 the hero has to win and that the hero smiles in each act...so this is based on heros (anti-heros)

and it also suggests that Jack is their hero not Will..Jack smiles in every act of movie 1..he's smiled in DMC in act 1 and 2 all thats left is act 3

have TnT deffinately stated that they have made one character a 'hero'?

for some reason i get the feeling that there are no no 'heros' in these films...just 'ordinary' peple being taken on journeys that test their strengths and weaknesses...

Technically they are their own hero's...

...and i realise im officially talking crap...so i shall shut up now lol

What if they try to make Will the hero in AWE, would that be possible?

I got the feeling that TnT were specifically talking about the concept of the "hero's journey" and the steps we're all familiar with, not about whether there's a hero or not.

LOL if thats the case they must be insane...this is a blockbuster not a independent movie where they can mess around with what people are familiar with..if they mess around with it there is a large chance that AWE will flop spectacularly...

movie 2/3 are one story spilt into 2 movies..they are half way through and they are just gonna stop with the steps?

maybe not..maybe 3 is separate from DMC??

confused!

😂

AWE is just gonna confuse the hell out of people if they don't follow those steps in some way..

well people never really follow them to a tee, often things get jumbled but they are insane to mess with a typical structure of a story..if its a blockbuster.

this is Will's story so maybe thy are not really making him follow the steps properly and are going to bend the rules a little bit when it comes to the ending.

did they say that on wordplayer ladyofthesilent? was it a reply to a comment someone made?

aha...they may have used the reset button technique with Jack dying like that..

Yes how long ago was that posted? It wasn't recently was it..