Don't know if you all have seen this, but this is what Terry had to say about the dvd commentary:
I have no idea what you're talking about, re: the DVD commentary.
>> There is nothing between Jack and Elizabeth aside from a fleeting bit of lust?
I won't sit here and listen to you downgrade fleeting bits of lust! Entire wars have been fought for same.
i think no matter how much we want to be positive what will happen, we will never know until the movie is released and we sit down to watch it *biting our nails the whole time* it sounds like ted and terry did an amazing job of rocking both sides of the boat, giving each hope and fear... which was their intent im sure...
Re: Grey Skies are gonna clear up...put on a happy face
Originally posted by savvysparrow
SHEESH! The commentary wasn't even that bad people! Surely all of you know that you have to read what the writers say, think about and then re-read it. What were you expecting from them anyway? For them to admit that J/E was and always was there intention, that in AWE they'll have a lavish ceremony and will eventually have 4 pirate children? No, they don't admit anything like that. Nor do they give any sort of hope to W/E either for that matter. If anything they make some sly comments that hint at what is that plagues the relationship in the first place.Here is my take on the commentary:
Most of the commentary deals with Elizabeth's actions and emotions. There's very little said about Jack, which makes me suspicious. All they in fact did confirm was that Jack cares for her more than he's willing to admit. And another thing, they did very little to confirm or clear up what the compass actually means. Which tells me that it will come into play in AWE and it will finally be explained.
But let me clarify a few of the statements that they make. First of all, the whole thing with the compass. I think what they revealed in the commentary is SOOOOOO importatant and kind of cool. First of all, they as much implied that Jack knows that the compass points to Elizabeth, and that it will always be so. Secondly, they implied that Jack knows that the compass points to the chest the entire time for Elizabeth, insinuating that Jack still cares for Elizabeth, even though there is no hope in his mind, of her ever returning those sentiments. Essentially, his love is a very unselfish, quiet and pure love. It's unwavering and steadfast, wouldn't you say? So, when you compare that kind of love to Will's love, you get a very telling picture. His love is not as steady, even though he says that it is. That is incredibly important!
Elizabeth's action in DMC are meant to be callous because I still believe that though it's not an exact parallel, the story is meant to be similar to Calypso and Davy Jones. Spoilers that I've heard on the net seem to confirm this suspicion. This doesn't mean however that Jack will rip out his heart, but I think that's part of what's going to be at the center of importance in AWE. They have to increase the dramatic tension between the two characters in AWE because so much of the tension was already resolved with the kiss in DMC.
Now, Elizabeth and the compass. My opinion is that the compass is essentially void. Forget about the compass and where it points, whether it points to the chest or not. The writers said something that is VERY interesting. They said that on the island, Elizabeth believes that she has betrayed Will. She'd done nothing much at that point to betray him, and yet that is what she believes. Interesting, isn't it? Essentially, she's projecting her emotions onto the compass, and thus misinterprets what she's seeing. The fact that she's believes herself capable of betraying Will insinuates that she doesn't trust herself with Jack, and that she kills Jack because he'll essentially always be this horrible temptation.
That says a lot about their relationship and Will. Like I've been saying, even if she was only lusting after Jack, there are some massive issues with her relationship with Will.There are other comments that are equally as interesting. They talked about how J/E's relationship is built around challenge. They challenge each other in this game they play at outwitting one another. The kiss is yet another example of that game. The writers very clearly pointed out that her chaining him to the mast was a call back of how they first met in POTC 1. If you think about the way that the writers used call back with Jack, the scene has a very different undertone. They said that they used the why is the rum gone line to imply that Jack has Elizabeth on his mind. The moment she burned the rum was when he was first attracted to and infuriated by her. So, why can't the same be said of Elizabeth? In chaining him to the mast in a way that's similar to the way that Jack uses Elizabeth to escape in POTC 1, the writers admitting that Jack has been on her mind. The moment of their first meeting, and his using her to escape, was a moment in which Elizabeth has thought about and in which she was first attracted/infuriated with him.
Also, the commentary brings up an idea. Each of the characters has to lose the false ideal that they cling to in order to truly live. The writers have said that Jack sold his soul for the Pearl, and in doing so lost his identity. For him to get it back, he has to let go of the Pearl, aka his false ideals regarding what freedom is. In order for Will to acheive balance he has to let go of something that is essentially the equivalent of the Pearl in terms of importance in his eyes, i.e. Elizabeth. His love of her is a false ideal, and I think this will be shown in AWE. It is a love based on an illusion and not who she really is. Which brings us to Elizabeth. The end of DMC and the choice she makes is more deeply symbolic than her simply choosing Will over Jack. What she essentially did when she sent Jack to his death was attempt to murder her Pirate self. She sold her soul for a false ideal. (Will's love) and in doing so, her character cannot achieve balance.
Might I also ask you to recall what the writers have said about the resolution of the triangle. The triangle will resolve itself in such a way that we'll applaud the most correct choice. At the moment, if you also take the AWE script into consideration, who's love seems to be the most correct choice? The man who can speak the words, and go through the motions of love, or the man who loves without any hope of earning love in return?
this whole post followed impecable logic, excellent references, and a very refreshing sense of perspective. awesome. thanks so much for cheering me up and enlightening me a bit. 🙂
My whole problem with this entire thread is that you defend J/E, once again, by making Will into something he isn't. That drives me crazy. I appreciate how you have defended me, but I don't really see much from you on the subject of Will...except when you try to analize him, and then you're usually far off the mark.
I don't think you purposely set out to do a bad characterization of Will, but regardless of intent, you still do it.
ladyofthesilent's post was better, simply because it focused on J/E, without bring Will into it except to mention him as a side character.
If you cannot defend your ship without attempting to ruin another character, then you have nothing to stand on. That's all I'm trying to say.
To prove to you that I can see both points of view, I'm working, as we speak, on a post that defends J/E...but it has nothing to do with Will, how he feels or what he does wrong. That's how you are supposed to defend a ship.
Originally posted by Surreal_44
My whole problem with this entire thread is that you defend J/E, once again, by making Will into something he isn't. That drives me crazy. I appreciate how you have defended me, but I don't really see much from you on the subject of Will...except when you try to analize him, and then you're usually far off the mark.I don't think you purposely set out to do a bad characterization of Will, but regardless of intent, you still do it.
ladyofthesilent's post was better, simply because it focused on J/E, without bring Will into it except to mention him as a side character.
If you cannot defend your ship without attempting to ruin another character, then you have nothing to stand on. That's all I'm trying to say.
To prove to you that I can see both points of view, I'm working, as we speak, on a post that defends J/E...but it has nothing to do with Will, how he feels or what he does wrong. That's how you are supposed to defend a ship.
all of these characters are pretty much completely subjective to people's opinions. we have very few hard facts about them, so i dont think its safe to say people are mis-interpretting any characters. perhaps the third film will clear up some character questions. until then, i think people can judge what a bad characterization is.