eh, Orlando doesn't bother me. I think he's pretty charming, more charming and charismatic than Johnny Depp in real life (my opinion.) which is why it's wierd to see Johnny overshadowing him to such a huge degree. I know what you are saying, Willofthewisp, about him playing the normal guy, but Orlando as a person comes across as very warm and sweet, and that doesn't translate at ALL into Will, who often seems cold, angry, and detatched. He's better in the second film, but despite the dark circumstances and the fact that his poor character doesn't exactly get happy scenes, I wish he could be a bit more winsome.
You know when he's on the pelagostos island, his two lines "i'm not going to eat you" and "jack sparrow! I can honestly say I'm glad to see you!" those two lines are brilliant, and I love Will more in those moments than at any other time in the films.
T and T said on their site they like to let their hero smile frequently, because nothing captivates an audience more. As Will is suppose to be getting more heroic, I hope they take their own advice and let him smile/laugh/be happy for some of film 3.
Will Turner is in general, not a happy character. His dad left the family, leaving Will's mother to raise a son alone, and I assume, did not leave them a great deal of money to do so.
Then Will loses his mum, and after he joins the crew of a ship, it is attacked by pirates, where the slaughter is horrific, and it seems that Will is the only survivor.
Next he gets shuttled off to a man who seems to spend most of his time drunk, and who knows what Will had to go through with that. Having a drunk for a parental substitution is absolutely draining emotionally.
Top it off, in CotBP he's in love with a girl that society deems is so far above him, he might as well love an angel, and then all the stuff he learns about his dad -- the one hope he had that maybe his life wasn't so bad after all -- and you have a character who has to be tough in order to survive.
He doesn't laugh much or let loose like Jack does, because Will simply hasn't had that kind of opportunity. Considering all he's been through, it's rather amazing Will didn't end up a serial killer.
Also, I think Will's character comes across as being vulnerable, but it's more of an angry vulnerability; he meets and covers up that weakness inside himself with defiance and near self-destructive behavior.
At least that's how I read Will's character. 😄
I absolutely agree with you surreal and Kate, you've both put his character across to me the perfect way! I've never thought of his character like that. I wish I had earlier, you're right, I can't believe how brave and tough someone is; and yet he still manages to sort of hide it all ... I'm very sad for him now ...
Originally posted by Surreal_44
Will Turner is in general, not a happy character. His dad left the family, leaving Will's mother to raise a son alone, and I assume, did not leave them a great deal of money to do so.Then Will loses his mum, and after he joins the crew of a ship, it is attacked by pirates, where the slaughter is horrific, and it seems that Will is the only survivor.
Next he gets shuttled off to a man who seems to spend most of his time drunk, and who knows what Will had to go through with that. Having a drunk for a parental substitution is absolutely draining emotionally.
Top it off, in CotBP he's in love with a girl that society deems is so far above him, he might as well love an angel, and then all the stuff he learns about his dad -- the one hope he had that maybe his life wasn't so bad after all -- and you have a character who has to be tough in order to survive.
He doesn't laugh much or let loose like Jack does, because Will simply hasn't had that kind of opportunity. Considering all he's been through, it's rather amazing Will didn't end up a serial killer.
Also, I think Will's character comes across as being vulnerable, but it's more of an angry vulnerability; he meets and covers up that weakness inside himself with defiance and near self-destructive behavior.
At least that's how I read Will's character. 😄
well I agree with all your logic, Jack is a very happy character who has probably had a life doubly as hard as Will's. Jack has been in and out of every bad situation you could imagine, and continues to be cheery, even if only because of the rum.
But there are still enough differences in their lives that make up for it. Whereas Jack has had some amount of a comfortable career, first with the EITC (until he was betrayed), and then as a pirate (until he was betrayed).
Plus, we don't know what Jack's childhood was like. Considering he had a career in the EITC, I would guess it was at least somewhat cushy and more stable than what Will has had.
Not to mention it isn't fair to compare 'tragedies', since the personality make-up is different for each person, so different people are more susceptible to be impacted negatively by certain situations than others.
Also, Jack's cheerfulness has been mentioned as a kind of mask, right? So he's probably just as messed up as Will, but his survival mechanism is just different.
And surfchikpir8fan, you can be a Will fan AND a Jack fan...you can even like Will if you're a J/E shipper. 😆 😆 Will is a great character and he SHOULD be appreciated. 😄
Will is cool i mean he is like one of those characters who you would like to hug! i just love Jack more maybe cuz of his personality he just makes me laugh you just got to love him.
Jack life i think is a bit worse then Wills, but he just knows how to cope with it, he moves on. I think the pearl makes up for his unhappiness the way he talks about her is happiness, and also rum helps with his coping.
You can definitely be a fan of as many characters as you want. Who's on all the dvd covers? Will, Jack, and Liz. They're a trio, each different from the others, but perfectly compatible and equally interesting and heroic.
That's interesting about comparing Jack and Will's lives. They've both had a hard way to go, so Surreal has a point that Will hasn't had much opportunity to smile. Or at least the times he probably did smile a lot (the year between COTBP and DMC) we didn't get to see them. I think he handles things better than Jack actually. Will doesn't run away from anything. He thinks it through, hones in on his skills, and usually wins. Sometimes he needs some help, but he usually gets past whatever obstacle has come his way.
Jack has probably had a tougher life since becoming a pirate, but before that, we don't know anything yet except his dad is alive. Jack, although very VERY smart, has the impulse to first run from his problems. He drinks a lot, and he wears a mask almost all the time and around almost everyone. He will do the right thing, and like Will, he does think about the situation, but he doesn't face it head on. He manipulates it to fit what he needs. Both strategies work, but obviously Jack's takes more brain power and causes more stress.
I think Jack is more amused by his bad luck and clumsiness than Will is, though. That's just a personality difference, not better or worse.
Exactly, Willo. I wasn't trying to imply that Jack is worse than Will; I was simply saying that they handle things differently.
And I think the childhood and what has happened in them is very important, as Willo also pointed out. Jack probably had some bad stuff happen, but I'm not sure it was as...traumatic as what Will had.
Will is also at leat (I assume) 10 years younger than Jack, so the age difference is kind of important too. Will is still working out the best way to handle things, whereas Jack has had time to perfect what he does.
Maybe that's what bothers me. He's sort of pitiable, and i hate that... its like the writers are trying to force me to like him/root for him BECAUSE he has had bad stuff happen and is dealing with it...
whereas with Jack, it's like smelling a hookah ten feet off. no one's forcing you to get closer, you just want to.
Exactimento! if anything all odds say u should stay away from Jack! and I'm just a fool for rebels!!! I actually DO like Will very much...he's everything u look for in a man. (in jack's words🙂 "have u not met will turner? he's barve! heroic...." (not to mention handsome) but I guess the reason I prefer Jack, underneath all the surface stuff (his witt, looks, sense of humor etc.) is that I find his struggle for freedom absolutely fascinating!!! of all characters I mostly relate to Elizabeth. I've always been doing the right thing...getting good grades,wearing nice clothes and living by the rules and now I'm just feel so labored by that...
I guess that's why I love JE (one of the reasons) I see myself in Lizzie and I just need to know what it tastes like...
getting past all that Will is a great person but as kate said...it's like they're forcing me to like him and that makes me like him just slightly less than Jack. He's just too good to be real...TOO falwless...TOO perfect and that's just what I'm trying to run away from. REAL people have flaws and I guess he's not REAL to me. he's like the prince in some kind of a disney fairytail that would never happen except for in story books....on the other hand though what makes me feel for him is his volnerability. he's just so mortal.
ok it's getting long so I'll just leave it at that.
Actually, Will is one of the most flawed characters of the series, and no, I don't think Will is pitiable, or that the writers are trying to force anyone to like him.
Will is just more straight-forward than Jack. Jack HIDES who he is behind a mask, whereas for Will it's all right there; the only time he dissembles is when he's in front of people who have a higher position in society than him, and by the end of CotBP, he has gotten over that need to hide who he is from others.
Has anyone noticed that Jack is the catalyst for ALL the characters to sort of come out of their shells?
The people most changed, I think, are actually Will and Norrington, and not Elizabeth. She's always been stubborn and headstrong, and yeah, now she's kind of thumbing her nose at society, but it wasn't as big a jump for her character to do so.
Will was more constrained by society than even Elizabeth in many ways, and meeting Jack helped him to do things no one in his position would have dreamed of.
Jack is actually more boring to me, because I don't see the development in him that I see in Will. The idea that Jack is just discovering that he's a good man isn't really true; he was already a good man. He needs to accept that he's a good man, but even that isn't as much of a change in character as what we've seen Will go through, and what we will see him go through in AWE.
I beg to differ....the Jack Sparrow that was in DMC was very different from the character in COTBP...Jack was more "carefree" and "happy" in COTBP....in DMc we we him letting his vunerability show..and his softer side...I mean...the way Jack is in that last scene...nothing could have prepared me for that...the way jack looks at lizzie just before the kiss..the way he smiles at her..the way he faces the Kraken....Jack is also smart, clever, brave and a good man...but it's his honest side that gets him into trouble..that's why he tries so hard to hide it....
As for Will...he's okay..but I don't need to see Will to make the Pirates movie complete for me....I liked him in COTBP....but by the end of DMC I'm not so sure....and yes, I'll agree, will has had a hard life and that's probably why he is awkward around Liz in the beginning and why he's so bitter about Pirates, etc. But he is Brave and Heroic..i'll give ya'll that...but I guess Will is boring because orlando plays him...maybe if someone with more electricity played him...I'd be rooting for Will instead of Jack..who knows...all i know is that the character of Jack brought to life by Johnny Depp is the best all time character for me...so it's hard to pit orlando up against that...and that's straight from the critics' mouths who reviewed the movies....
I don't really give a rat's tail what critics say about anything. I rarely agree with them, so whatever they say is kind of pointless to me.
Jack showed vulnerability in CotBP. So nothing Jack did surprised me in DMC. *shrug* Jack is a rather predictable character, and the only real way he could surprise me is if he turned out to be ~EVIL~.
What's so interesting about Pirates of the Caribbean is that the three main men (I'm including Norrington in this, yes 😄 ) are very different, and yet are all similar.
They're all clever, brave, selfless in some respects, selfish, good men...the list goes on. 😄 It's rare to have characters like them in a film like this, because they all are heroic, but have a small streak of the villain in them.
It'll be interesting to see how the end plays out for all of them, and who will make the biggest sacrifices...and hopefully we'll see someone get rewarded for their sacrifice for once. 😄
lovethemtigers:"and his softer side...I mean...the way Jack is in that last scene...nothing could have prepared me for that...the way jack looks at lizzie just before the kiss..the way he smiles at her..the way he faces the Kraken....Jack is also smart, clever, brave and a good man...but it's his honest side that gets him into trouble..that's why he tries so hard to hide it...."
I REALLY think so too. that´s exacty what i felt when i first saw the movie!
Okay, maybe this will explain my views of Jack And Will and why I like one better than the other. I know there was another thread but this is pretty much the sum up of why i love them:
Jack:
Heart of the Ocean
Candlelight dies at the window
And the night wind blows soft from the sea
Though I lie in your arms, I'm a thousand miles away
On the waves sailing fast, sailing free
Now I'm bound for the heart of the ocean
I'm riding the sea in my soul
In the dark and the deep
She will rock me to sleep
Down below... where the black waters roll
When the sea birds cry out in the morning
And the sun lays its kiss on the sand
I'll be drawn to the shore
Like so many times before
As I long to be far from the land.
Now I'm bound for the heart of the ocean
I'm riding the sea in my soul
In the dark and the deep
She will rock me to sleep
Down below... where the black waters roll
I can still hear your voice on the trade winds
I can still taste your tears on the foam
But the lure of the tide that I'm feeling inside
Will not rest till my heart finds its home
Now my heart is the heart of the ocean
There are storms from the sea in my soul
I'm restless and deep
And before I can sleep
I must go... where the black waters roll
Will:
Backstreet Boys - Just Want You To Know Lyrics
Looking at your picture from when we first met
You gave me a smile that I could never forget
And nothing I could do could protect me from you that night
Wrapped around your finger, always on my mind
The days would blend 'cause we stayed up all night
Yeah, you and I were everything, everything to me
I just want you to know that I've been fighting to let you go
Some days I make it through and then there's nights that never
end
I wish that I could believe that there's a day you'll come back
to me
But still I have to say I would do it all again
Just want you to know
All the doors are closing I'm tryin' to move ahead
And deep inside I wish it's me instead
My dreams are empty from the day, the day you slipped away
I just want you to know that I've been fighting to let you go
Some days I make it through and then there's nights that never
end
I wish that I could believe that there's a day you'll come back
to me
But still I have to say I would do it all again
Just want you to know
That since I lost you, I lost myself
No I can't fake it, there's no one else
I just want you to know
That I've been fighting to let you go
Some days I make it through and then there's nights that never
end
I wish that I could believe that there's a day you'll come back
to me
But still I have to say I would do it all again
Just want you to know
That I've been fighting to let you go
Some days I make it through and then there's nights that never
end
I wish that I could believe that there's a day you'll come back
to me
But still I have to say I would do it all again
Just want you to know
And that's pretty much it. I love boy bands for getting ready to go out at night, or driving to the beach or whatever, but I dance under the moon to Gaelic Storm and thats the music of my soul. know what I'm saying? gah I dont know. I dont really care who has had a harder life.
I do agree that the three main men are really, really similar. 🙂
Something obvious - putting Will's character alongside Jack's, at least at first glance, you're going to pick Jack for the more interesting. He's more entertaining. Just watching Jack WALK is fun.
I agree that Will was rather... stoic through DMC. There's only so much I can relate to when a character's jaw is set with determination for two hours straight. I also agree that my favorite line of his was, "Jack Sparrow, I can honestly say I'm glad to see you!" It was said with lots of humanity, not to mention a great smile. 😄
Perhaps some of it lies with Orlando Bloom, as well. I don't really think he's had the role that will make him blossom as a "good" actor yet, and Will seems to have a kind of blandness that again, makes him unlikeable.
But of course, it can't be easy playing solid, dependable Will against flamboyant Jack. There's no doubt which character I would choose to play...
yeah I agree whith that....Orlando really is a good actor. he's actually pretty cool and his charcter is really the oposite of him. He's shy, brave and he's not so happy. and Orlando does a really good job on that cause even in the special features on the COTBP dvd Gore said that he has toremind Orlando "not to be so cool and piraty" and keeping it down is as hard as letting it all out so Orlando did a really good job.
He just hasn't had "THAT role" yet. the one that makes his career. he's had a lot of good characters but I think he's still looking for the one that will make him shine. You know like Jack was Johnny's.