Means nothing.
It means that they appealed to the public on a scale much greater than Rush.
So what's the accolade? The fact that he merely played with great guitarists? Big deal, it doesn't mean Journey are better than Rush does it?
Oh, no. The fact that he "merely" played with great guitarists at the age of fourteen, and a year later, was asked by two of those three to join their respective bands.
Guess you missed that though. 😉
The first three are arguable and the last one means nothing. Britney Spears is more popular than Geddy Lee, what's your point?
Arguable? Let's hear the massive rebuttle.
A) They didn't invent the power ballad.
Most "music historians" and musicians seem to think so, if the TV specials on Journey - including Behind the Music - are any indication.
B) That's not something they should be thanked for.
In your opinion.
C) This isn't proving they're better than Rush.
Yeah, and like you're proving otherwise.
I'm waiting for you to prove Journey are better than Rush, a more talented band, not more successful and known.
The bottom line is that, in most cases, talent is usually a prerequisite for a successful band. Especially when you have Steve Perry and Neal Schon (waiting for you to argue that Alex Lifeson is better than him, lol) in the band.
Let's add more:- Better bassist.
- More revered in the art of musicianship and contribution to music, important music, not shit music (Journey allegedly gave us the power ballad, Rush gave us 2112, Moving Pictures etc).
Please. My opinion is crap, but yours is now a God-given fact? Don't work like that. So statements like "Journey gave us shit music" aren't going to hold weight. Especially when more the general public seems to disagree, if record sales are any indication (which they are).
Hardly any bands have a bassist more technically skilled than Geddy Lee, let alone Journey. That's a fact.
That's a fact?
Oh, okay. Then I suppose Neal Schon being a much better guitarist than Alex Lifeson is a fact.
This is about talent and who is the better band, so throw away all your popularity and sales records, also the video game BS. Rush are better musicians creatively (Opinion) and technically (Fact regarding Geddy and Neil). So in a thread about "Who is the most TALENTED band?", Journey shouldn't even be namedropped, much less contesting with Rush.
Rush is the overall better band. Journey's up there, though, in my opinion.
Which, lol, clearly amounts to nothing, right - in comparison to yours? I love the proof by the way "this is a fact".
However, the very fact that you're arguing this point suggests that you're too stupid to see otherwise.-AC
Does calling people "stupid" over the internet make you feel big?
ac, you're anti-beatles thing weirds me out. whatever your feelings may be, paul mccartney is "factually" great, insofar as a songwriter can be "factually" anything. he has very good range vocally (and wonderful at harmonizing), he was a melodic genius, he played a fairly mean bass, and he's written some undyingly good tunes.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Sit down and let me tell you something.You see...Paul McCartney...*Sigh*...he isn't factually anything great. Sorry you had to hear it from me.
-AC
In your eyes who or what makes someone great/talented?
Besides the fact Paul can play bass, guitar, piano, harmonica, can sing, can write also can play the drums to a high standard aswell. Not really talented 🙁
I'm not even a Paul fan tbh much prefer John Lennon but can't fight his case in this thread 😄
Originally posted by KitayI'm not even a Paul fan tbh much prefer John Lennon but can't fight his case in this thread 😄
yes you can fight his case
why...because there are more talented songwriters...more talented bass players...more talented singers...more talented pianists...more talented...well you get my point
jack of all trades...master of none
doesn't make you talented does it?
Originally posted by manorastroman
ac, you're anti-beatles thing weirds me out. whatever your feelings may be, paul mccartney is "factually" great, insofar as a songwriter can be "factually" anything. he has very good range vocally (and wonderful at harmonizing), he was a melodic genius, he played a fairly mean bass, and he's written some undyingly good tunes.
Pardon? I like The Beatles, but just because I'm not tonguing their collective anii doesn't mean I am anti-Beatles.
He isn't factually great unless you can prove beyond all deniability and preference that he is. You can't, it's subjective. We're discussing musicianship, not preference. No preference is factual.
Originally posted by Gideon
It means that they appealed to the public on a scale much greater than Rush.
Means nothing in relation to this thread, at all.
Originally posted by Gideon
Oh, no. The fact that he "merely" played with great guitarists at the age of fourteen, and a year later, was asked by two of those three to join their respective bands.
How does this make Journey a more talented band than Rush?
Originally posted by Gideon
Guess you missed that though. 😉
I missed how it's relevant to one collective band being more talented musicians than another, sure.
Originally posted by Gideon
Arguable? Let's hear the massive rebuttle.Most "music historians" and musicians seem to think so, if the TV specials on Journey - including Behind the Music - are any indication.
You're judging by TV specials? I laugh at you. TV Specials would have you believe Motley Crue were more talented than Rush.
Originally posted by Gideon
In your opinion.
Yes.
Originally posted by Gideon
Yeah, and like you're proving otherwise.
What? Geddy Lee is a much more revered and respected bassist than most musicians in general, let alone Journey's. I needn't mention Peart. Rush's rhythm section is more instrumentally talented than Journey as an entire band.
If we are NOT discussing technical ability and are discussing preference, then you have a case, cos that's subjective.
Originally posted by Gideon
The bottom line is that, in most cases, talent is usually a prerequisite for a successful band. Especially when you have Steve Perry and Neal Schon (waiting for you to argue that Alex Lifeson is better than him, lol) in the band.
So? Geddy Lee and Neil Peart are far better musicians than all of Journey. They are more respected, they are more revered, and that is what we are discussing isn't it? Instrumental talent. In which Rush are superior.
Geddy Lee walks around playing keyboard and bass at the same time with almost unmatched competence AS he works floor pedals.
Neil Peart performs a drum solo going through every single style of drumming bar metal and actually makes it sound brilliant.
Journey? Power ballads.
Originally posted by Gideon
Please. My opinion is crap, but yours is now a God-given fact? Don't work like that. So statements like "Journey gave us shit music" aren't going to hold weight. Especially when more the general public seems to disagree, if record sales are any indication (which they are).
It's a fact they have a better bassist and it's a fact that when it comes down to MUSICAL RESPECT FROM OTHER MUSICIANS, Rush have much more backing than Journey ever will.
We are not discussing public opinion, we're debating who is the most talented band. Sales do not prove how skilled musicians are, they prove who is popular at the time. Popularity doesn't make Journey more talented, it makes them more popular.
Get it? Good.
Originally posted by Gideon
That's a fact?
It's a fact that he's better than Journey's bassist, yes.
Originally posted by Gideon
Oh, okay. Then I suppose Neal Schon being a much better guitarist than Alex Lifeson is a fact.
How does that tie in to me saying Geddy Lee is better than Journey's bassist? He is because he is. Lifeson probably is better.
Schon was reduced to playing with Michael Bolton as soon as Eddie Van Halen showed up and started showing people who guitar should be played.
Originally posted by Gideon
Rush is the overall better band. Journey's up there, though, in my opinion.
Then why did you continue this?
I'm not discussing subjectivity or music, I'm discussing ability. You can prefer who is better than someone else. Journey are not a factually talented group of musicians in comparison to virtuosos like Rush. Whether or not you think they make the best music ever is up to you, that's entirely opinion. Talent isn't.
Originally posted by Gideon
Which, lol, clearly amounts to nothing, right - in comparison to yours? I love the proof by the way "this is a fact".
Opinion Vs Fact doesn't often go on for too long, unless you happen to be stupid enough not to tell the difference.
Preference: Music, creativitiy = Subjective.
Talent: Ability = Objective.
Originally posted by Gideon
Does calling people "stupid" over the internet make you feel big?
Yeah, makes me feel brutal, like Nathan Explosion (That's a joke, I call you stupid if I genuinely think you're being stupid.).
Originally posted by Kitay
Besides the fact Paul can play bass, guitar, piano, harmonica, can sing, can write also can play the drums to a high standard aswell. Not really talented
I said he's not factually anything that would permit him being put up against the world's best technical musicians.
He's a talented creative musician, at least he was, and he can play bass well. He's not Geddy Lee, he's not Victor Wooten, he's not Trevor Dunn, he's not Les Claypool. These are factually madly talented bass players.
-AC
How does this make Journey a more talented band than Rush?
The point is that, contrary to your belief, each of Rush's members don't outclass that of Journey's. Peart is a better drummer. Geddy Lee is an all around better musician. But, he's not the more talented singer. I'll take the guy who was nicknamed by other singers as "The Voice" - Steve Perry. Alex Lifeson is not more talented than Neal Schon, who was a child prodigy to such a degree that he wasn't even a legal adult when he was recruited by Santana and Eric Clapton - who are, most decidedly, more talented and more influential than Rush.
So, if your point is that "each of Rush's members are greater than Journey's", your point has just been buried.
I missed how it's relevant to one collective band being more talented musicians than another, sure.
Once again: Rush is the better band. You imply, however, that each of their members just kick Journey's ass. They don't. Journey's got the better singer and the better guitarist.
You're judging by TV specials? I laugh at you. TV Specials would have you believe Motley Crue were more talented than Rush.
TV specials in which experts and other musicians are interviewed. In essence, their peers. Not users named "Alpha Centauri" who pretend to have an opinion that is something God himself would institute.
What? Geddy Lee is a much more revered and respected bassist than most musicians in general, let alone Journey's. I needn't mention Peart. Rush's rhythm section is more instrumentally talented than Journey as an entire band.If we are NOT discussing technical ability and are discussing preference, then you have a case, cos that's subjective
You're trying to dodge the point, aren't you? I'm not saying that Journey is the better band. They're the more popular one, yes, and the more commercially successful one (by a hell of a lot, too). My point is that Rush's members simply don't outclass Journey's - whose guitarist and singer outstrip that of Rush's own.
How does that tie in to me saying Geddy Lee is better than Journey's bassist? He is because he is. Lifeson probably is better.
Lifeson's probably better? Lmao! Why? Because he's in Rush, right?
Or, wait, because you say so?
Yeah... right...
Schon was reduced to playing with Michael Bolton as soon as Eddie Van Halen showed up and started showing people who guitar should be played.
Please. Van Halen > Lifeson, too, and by a mile. Schon was still with Journey when Eddie got big - not with Bolton. But, nice try. Then again, it would help if you understood Eddie Van Halen had the entire band based around him (hence "Van Halen"😉, whereas Journey was based around Steve Perry.
Hagar and Roth don't exactly measure up in comparison as singers.
Then why did you continue this?I'm not discussing subjectivity or music, I'm discussing ability. You can prefer who is better than someone else. Journey are not a factually talented group of musicians in comparison to virtuosos like Rush. Whether or not you think they make the best music ever is up to you, that's entirely opinion. Talent isn't.
Please. Schon is a virtuoso. A child prodigy. What is Lifeson? Perry is a singer who has influenced countless pop singers for the past twenty years - constantly heralded by fans and fellow singers alike as possessing an "incredible voice" according to Jon Bon Jovi.
If you're implying that Journey's members aren't talented, or "factually talented" (where the hell do you come up with these so-called "facts"?), then maybe you deserve the "stupid" moniker that you like to hand out to others who simply don't agree with your pompous declarations of "fact".
Opinion Vs Fact doesn't often go on for too long, unless you happen to be stupid enough not to tell the difference.Preference: Music, creativitiy = Subjective.
Talent: Ability = Objective.
I may be the first to tell you this, man, but because you proclaim it fact doesn't make it so. 😉
Originally posted by Gideon
The point is that, contrary to your belief, each of Rush's members don't outclass that of Journey's.
And you intended to prove this by saying "Journey sell more" how?
Originally posted by Gideon
Peart is a better drummer. Geddy Lee is an all around better musician. But, he's not the more talented singer. I'll take the guy who was nicknamed by other singers as "The Voice" - Steve Perry.
You can take him all you want, the fact is Geddy Lee's vocals have incredibly high note register. What does Perry have? Crooney vocals that make people think he's good. Where have I heard that before?
Originally posted by Gideon
Alex Lifeson is not more talented than Neal Schon, who was a child prodigy to such a degree that he wasn't even a legal adult when he was recruited by Santana and Eric Clapton
WAS a child prodigy. What did he become? Michael Bolton's guitarist. I'll leave you there.
Originally posted by Gideon
who are, most decidedly, more talented and more influential than Rush.
Hahahahahahahaha. Clapton and Santana more talented and influential than Rush. Nobody in Santana tops Peart or Lee, Clapton isn't better than Peart or Lee, but he's probably better than Lifeson. Rush are better musicians, they are more talented instrumentalists.
As for saying Rush are less influential, pfft. Influential bands were influenced by Rush.
Originally posted by Gideon
So, if your point is that "each of Rush's members are greater than Journey's", your point has just been buried.
Buried by what? "Schon was a guitar prodigy."? So what? How revered is he now? Do a poll among revered musicians ABOUT revered musicians, and in the guitarist section we'll see how Schon rates. Do one of bassists and we'll see how Geddy Lee rates, shall we? Geddy Lee is lauded by people who don't even like Rush, or his voice.
Originally posted by Gideon
Once again: Rush is the better band. You imply, however, that each of their members just kick Journey's ass. They don't. Journey's got the better singer and the better guitarist.
Better singer in what way? Technique and ability? Geddy Lee has a higher range. Alex Lifeson is STILL regarded as a master guitarist, Schon WAS a child prodigy. So what? He was good at 14. Live in the moment all you want.
Originally posted by Gideon
TV specials in which experts and other musicians are interviewed. In essence, their peers. Not users named "Alpha Centauri" who pretend to have an opinion that is something God himself would institute.
I'm not pretending to have a godly opinion, but thanks for saying so.
Secondly, being a musician doesn't make you an expert. Vince Neil is a musician, but the day his opinion on INSTRUMENTALISTS is more valid than the likes of Dream Theater, I'll agree with you. All those specials are is mostly ageing rockers who have nothing better to do than talk about the era that made them famous.
Rush don't. Rush are still around, still revered, still loved.
Originally posted by Gideon
You're trying to dodge the point, aren't you? I'm not saying that Journey is the better band. They're the more popular one, yes, and the more commercially successful one (by a hell of a lot, too). My point is that Rush's members simply don't outclass Journey's - whose guitarist and singer outstrip that of Rush's own.
But conversely you are suggesting Journey outstrip Rush by having a better singer (they don't) and guitarist (they don't). You are claiming Steve Perry is a better singer, why? "Range". What range? Geddy Lee hits amazingly high notes, that's ability. I've never heard Steve Perry doing anything besides hold notes and croon, and yes, I've heard a lot of Journey.
As for Schon, all you have is "He was a child prodigy.". So what? He was really good at 14. That's the problem with prodigies, you're no prodigy if you can't back it up. Good at 14, then what? Where did his talent go? He didn't get better, he got older, then he got with Michael Bolton.
Alex Lifeson developed a bone condition in his fingers and he can still play full gigs of technically brilliant fretwork.
Originally posted by Gideon
Lifeson's probably better? Lmao! Why? Because he's in Rush, right?
No, cos he's a better guitar player. I like Matt Bellamy of Muse, but he's not better than Lifeson. You liking Schon doesn't make him better. Schon better? Why? Cos he's was good when he was 14?
Originally posted by Gideon
Please. Van Halen > Lifeson, too, and by a mile.
Wasn't denying it.
Originally posted by Gideon
Schon was still with Journey when Eddie got big - not with Bolton. But, nice try. Then again, it would help if you understood Eddie Van Halen had the entire band based around him (hence "Van Halen"😉, whereas Journey was based around Steve Perry.
Eddie Van Halen showed everyone up because he was better, including Schon. Unless you are claiming Schon is better than Van Halen...
Originally posted by Gideon
Please. Schon is a virtuoso. A child prodigy.
I'm starting to think you have a fixation with the fact that he was a child...because you keep bringing it up without proving anything.
Originally posted by Gideon
What is Lifeson?
A still-playing, still revered, still influential guitarist who can still play excellently.
Schon? He's not a 14 year old prodigy anymore.
Originally posted by Gideon
Perry is a singer who has influenced countless pop singers for the past twenty years
Hardly an accolade. He's an accessible singer, that's why.
Like Dairy Milk chocolate, it's just chocolate, no effort required to like it or get used to a different taste, so it's the best selling.
Originally posted by Gideon
constantly heralded by fans and fellow singers alike as possessing an "incredible voice" according to Jon Bon Jovi.
Hahahahaahaahaha.
"According to Jon Bon Jovi.". Says it all. When did Jon Bon Jovi become an instrumental and technical barometer in music?
Originally posted by Gideon
If you're implying that Journey's members aren't talented, or "factually talented" (where the hell do you come up with these so-called "facts"?), then maybe you deserve the "stupid" moniker that you like to hand out to others who simply don't agree with your pompous declarations of "fact".
You're the one ignoring fact, you're the one with the age-fetish.
Originally posted by Gideon
I may be the first to tell you this, man, but because you proclaim it fact doesn't make it so. 😉
I know. What's your point?
-AC
And you intended to prove this by saying "Journey sell more" how?
By proving that the general public seems to disagree with your rather distorted assumption that Journey isn't talented in the face of bands such as Rush.
You can take him all you want, the fact is Geddy Lee's vocals have incredibly high note register. What does Perry have? Crooney vocals that make people think he's good. Where have I heard that before?
You proclaimed in this "accolade" that you've listened to a lot of Journey. I'm pretty much doubting that at this point. Are you judging talent by sheer high note register? Then Axl Rose must be a living god in your eyes. But, I'll humor you. Pop in some "Infinity", "Evolution", or "Departured". Perry's got an incredible high register - and, what's more, he can go lower than Lee can as well.
He has such a control over his voice that he was able to modulate it to go from singing with the angels in the '70s to metal-esque songs in the '80s.
Even implying that Lee is on par with Perry in vocal ability is absurd.
WAS a child prodigy. What did he become? Michael Bolton's guitarist. I'll leave you there.
He played on a studio album for Michael Bolton as a guest musician, due to Journey's Jonathan Cain producing Bolton's album and persuading him to play on it.
He's still playing for Journey now, but he also played for Hardline, Bad English, and HSAS (with Sammy Hagar). Hell, Hagar said in an interview that Schon can play as good as Eddie.
It'd help if you actually knew what you were talking about.
Hahahahahahahaha. Clapton and Santana more talented and influential than Rush. Nobody in Santana tops Peart or Lee, Clapton isn't better than Peart or Lee, but he's probably better than Lifeson. Rush are better musicians, they are more talented instrumentalists.
It is absurd to say that Clapton and Santana were more talented and influential than Rush? Dude, are you high? Lifeson was inspired by both of these guys. But, yeah, you're the guy proclaiming that McCartney isn't "factually talented" either.
Carlos and Eric are both more talented than any member of Rush, especially Lee and Lifeson.
Buried by what? "Schon was a guitar prodigy."? So what? How revered is he now? Do a poll among revered musicians ABOUT revered musicians, and in the guitarist section we'll see how Schon rates. Do one of bassists and we'll see how Geddy Lee rates, shall we? Geddy Lee is lauded by people who don't even like Rush, or his voice.
Your point?
David Lee Roth and Hagar (who couldn't stand Journey as a band) lauded Schon and Perry as musicians. Bon Jovi, Brett Michaels, Josh Groban, so on and so forth.
Lifeson wasn't a child prodigy, anyways.
As for saying Rush are less influential, pfft. Influential bands were influenced by Rush.
Better singer in what way? Technique and ability? Geddy Lee has a higher range. Alex Lifeson is STILL regarded as a master guitarist, Schon WAS a child prodigy. So what? He was good at 14. Live in the moment all you want.
No.
The higher range includes the difference between the low notes and high notes. Perry can go lower than Geddy Lee, and higher. He's got the better range. Schon is also regarded as a skilled guitarist, even by people who can't stand Journey - whom critics hated for the longest time.
I'm not pretending to have a godly opinion, but thanks for saying so.
Constantly spitting out "this is a fact" doesn't help your case. 😉
Secondly, being a musician doesn't make you an expert. Vince Neil is a musician, but the day his opinion on INSTRUMENTALISTS is more valid than the likes of Dream Theater, I'll agree with you. All those specials are is mostly ageing rockers who have nothing better to do than talk about the era that made them famous.
Please. Your attempts to discredit the interviews and opinions of the peers of these musicians are laughable. If that's the best you've got, maybe we should agree to disagree.
Rush don't. Rush are still around, still revered, still loved.
Journey's tour with Def Leppard has been the most successful this year. Again: the public seems to enjoy Journey more than Rush, if record sales are indication (which they are).
But conversely you are suggesting Journey outstrip Rush by having a better singer (they don't) and guitarist (they don't).
Like I said before, you claim that Lee has a better range (he doesn't) and that Lifeson is a better guitarist (he's not), by just saying so. I've put more on the table than you have, and you seem to just rely on your opinion - which means what, exactly?
You're either lying about Lee or you are simply ignorant of Perry's skills, and your constant boasting of Lifeson's superior ability means jack when Schon was a virtuoso and a child prodigy, and Lifeson was neither.
You are claiming Steve Perry is a better singer, why? "Range". What range? Geddy Lee hits amazingly high notes, that's ability. I've never heard Steve Perry doing anything besides hold notes and croon, and yes, I've heard a lot of Journey.
You claim to listen to a lot of Journey. Clearly you don't. Perry hits even higher notes than Lee.
As for Schon, all you have is "He was a child prodigy.". So what? He was really good at 14. That's the problem with prodigies, you're no prodigy if you can't back it up. Good at 14, then what? Where did his talent go? He didn't get better, he got older, then he got with Michael Bolton.
Yeah... you don't know what you're talking about, do you?
Alex Lifeson developed a bone condition in his fingers and he can still play full gigs of technically brilliant fretwork.
Oh, and Schon can't? Yeah... Journey's infamous for rigorous touring and 3+ hour concerts. My Dad went to Rush's 30 year anniversary concert, and it lasted shy of two hours with the band taking two 15 minute breaks.
Please. When it comes to melodics and speed, few guitarists can match Schon.
No, cos he's a better guitar player. I like Matt Bellamy of Muse, but he's not better than Lifeson. You liking Schon doesn't make him better. Schon better? Why? Cos he's was good when he was 14?
Yeah, you've done so well, proving Lifeson's better, lmao. Schon was recognized as good enough to play with Clapton and Santana when he was a young teen. That proves his skill. Lifeson's the guitarist for a progressive rock band that never achieved any noteworthy commercial success.
Wonder why.
Eddie Van Halen showed everyone up because he was better, including Schon. Unless you are claiming Schon is better than Van Halen...
Sammy Hagar and David Lee Roth certainly seem to think that Schon is as good as Eddie.
I'm starting to think you have a fixation with the fact that he was a child...because you keep bringing it up without proving anything.
I keep forgetting that you're dishing out facts like they're party favors. Please. You've brought less to the table. Schon = prodigy. Lifeson = not a prodigy.
A still-playing, still revered, still influential guitarist who can still play excellently.Schon? He's not a 14 year old prodigy anymore.
Yeah. Schon's a 50-something year old prodigy still fronting a band who has done much better than Rush. He's still playing, too, but clearly you don't know what you're talking about.
Hardly an accolade. He's an accessible singer, that's why.Like Dairy Milk chocolate, it's just chocolate, no effort required to like it or get used to a different taste, so it's the best selling.
Wow! Glad to see that you know why these singers are influenced by Perry. You can read minds, can't you?
There's the alternative that maybe, just maybe, the guy's a talented singer, and moreso than Lee.
Hahahahaahaahaha."According to Jon Bon Jovi.". Says it all. When did Jon Bon Jovi become an instrumental and technical barometer in music?
Since he was an extremely successful person fronting an extremely successful band (unlike Rush). Better yet, when did you become an instrumental and technical barometer in music?
You're the one ignoring fact, you're the one with the age-fetish.
No. I'm the one proving that Schon, at age 14, was regarded as a better guitarist than Lifeson is in his 50s. 😉
Originally posted by Gideon
By proving that the general public seems to disagree with your rather distorted assumption that Journey isn't talented in the face of bands such as Rush.
How? Sales dictate popularity, not talent. Sales don't prove anything, because Rush are the more talented band.
Originally posted by Gideon
You proclaimed in this "accolade" that you've listened to a lot of Journey. I'm pretty much doubting that at this point.
Of course you are. I knew you'd say that when I said it.
Originally posted by Gideon
Are you judging talent by sheer high note register? Then Axl Rose must be a living god in your eyes. But, I'll humor you. Pop in some "Infinity", "Evolution", or "Departured". Perry's got an incredible high register - and, what's more, he can go lower than Lee can as well.
Many people have high note registers if they can hit high notes, but it's the pinnacle of Lee's range that you should focus on.
Originally posted by Gideon
He has such a control over his voice that he was able to modulate it to go from singing with the angels in the '70s to metal-esque songs in the '80s.
Wow, a singer with control over his voice. Let's give the man a trophy!
Originally posted by Gideon
Even implying that Lee is on par with Perry in vocal ability is absurd.
To a Journey fanboy, clearly. Rush aren't even close to being my favourite band, but it doesn't take a genius to notice they are better instrumentalists.
Originally posted by Gideon
He played on a studio album for Michael Bolton as a guest musician, due to Journey's Jonathan Cain producing Bolton's album and persuading him to play on it.
So he lacks perception enough to see that Bolton is a whore also? Man, Schon isn't looking good right now.
Originally posted by Gideon
He's still playing for Journey now, but he also played for Hardline, Bad English, and HSAS (with Sammy Hagar). Hell, Hagar said in an interview that Schon can play as good as Eddie.
Hagar was wrong, Eddie is a much better guitarist, to even speak of Schon as being close is pathetic, and if that's what you're suggesting I'm going to write you off.
Originally posted by Gideon
It'd help if you actually knew what you were talking about.
When you haven't just suggested Schon and Van Halen are equal, we'll chat about who knows what.
Originally posted by Gideon
It is absurd to say that Clapton and Santana were more talented and influential than Rush? Dude, are you high? Lifeson was inspired by both of these guys.
So? How does that mean they were more influential? Metallica were influenced by some obscure metal bands. Are they more influential than Metallica simply because they are their influences? No.
Originally posted by Gideon
But, yeah, you're the guy proclaiming that McCartney isn't "factually talented" either.
I know it's shocking that people have the ability to NOT bow down and lick the very penis of Paul McCartney just because he's a former member of The Beatles, but it's possible. Try it.
Originally posted by Gideon
Carlos and Eric are both more talented than any member of Rush, especially Lee and Lifeson.
Carlos Santana is better than all of Rush? You're right, your opinion doesn't mean anything. Not anymore.
Originally posted by Gideon
Your point?David Lee Roth and Hagar (who couldn't stand Journey as a band) lauded Schon and Perry as musicians. Bon Jovi, Brett Michaels, Josh Groban, so on and so forth.
And who are they? Two average singers, two shit singers and a pseudo-tenor. Dream Theater hold Rush in highest regard, Dream Theater being a collective that is arguable the most technically talented in the world. Compared to your little hair metal examples, that's counting for something.
Originally posted by Gideon
Lifeson wasn't a child prodigy, anyways.
What's with the child worship? Do you still think Schon is 14? Don't answer that, actually...
Originally posted by Gideon
The higher range includes the difference between the low notes and high notes. Perry can go lower than Geddy Lee, and higher. He's got the better range. Schon is also regarded as a skilled guitarist, even by people who can't stand Journey - whom critics hated for the longest time.
You don't have a credible opinion Mr. Santana is better than all of Rush. Secondly, I didn't say he wasn't regarded as skilled, I said he's not better than Lifeson.
Originally posted by Gideon
Constantly spitting out "this is a fact" doesn't help your case. 😉
I don't need it to. I'm not going to sit here trying to make you stop being ignorant of fact, I know it's a fact. It's not deniable, realistically. Only if you're ignorant who refuses to accept.
You will never agree with me, but unlike subjective debates, I don't need you to. It's like debating who's better: Schon or Hendrix. I don't need to debate it.
Originally posted by Gideon
Please. Your attempts to discredit the interviews and opinions of the peers of these musicians are laughable. If that's the best you've got, maybe we should agree to disagree.
Why should we agree to disagree? It's the truth, you know it as well as I do. VH1's The Story of Metal, right? Who was on it?
Tedd Nugent, DeVille, members of Quiet Riot, Brett Michaels, Sebastian Bach, Ace Frehley...do I have to continue? Why weren't Mastodon there? Metallica? Slayer? Because they're not shackled to an era, they're not shit, they're not in need of exposure.
All those specials are is as I said, ageing rockers hanging on to past glories.
Originally posted by Gideon
Journey's tour with Def Leppard has been the most successful this year. Again: the public seems to enjoy Journey more than Rush, if record sales are indication (which they are).
The public enjoy Fall Out Boy more than Rush, so if we apply your rationale there...Fall Out Boy are better? You don't know how to perceive correctly, and your examples prove it.
Originally posted by Gideon
Like I said before, you claim that Lee has a better range (he doesn't) and that Lifeson is a better guitarist (he's not), by just saying so. I've put more on the table than you have, and you seem to just rely on your opinion - which means what, exactly?
You've put VH1 specials on the table. Like I said, I realised before that you are not going to yield, and where as I might try to make you yield if this were a subjective debate, I've also realised you're sheer ignorance personified, nor do you know what you're on about (Schon equal to Van Halen, Santana better than all of Rush).
So then I realise that me knowing it's a fact is enough. You don't need to agree, you can't actually disagree, you're just trying to.
Originally posted by Gideon
You're either lying about Lee or you are simply ignorant of Perry's skills
Interesting. "You're either lying about Lee or you are simply ignorant of Perry's skills.". If you knew enough of Lee to judge, you'd know if I was lying or not, but you're not sure...which means you're probably ignorant to Lee's skills.
Oh and how the tables turn.
Originally posted by Gideon
and your constant boasting of Lifeson's superior ability means jack when Schon was a virtuoso and a child prodigy, and Lifeson was neither.
Lifeson IS a virtuoso NOW, he doesn't NEED to be a 14 year old prodigy. Nobody looks at Lifeson and says "He's no good, he wasn't that good when he was 14!". That's all Schon's famous for besides being in a famous band, being a child prodigy. He's not famous for continuing it, Lifeson is.
Originally posted by Gideon
You claim to listen to a lot of Journey. Clearly you don't. Perry hits even higher notes than Lee.
And we see the genius logic of Gideon.
I clearly don't know Journey because I simply disagree. I don't listen to them cos they're shit, I have listened to them because my aunt is an immense fan. I don't judge unless I've listened.
Originally posted by Gideon
Yeah... you don't know what you're talking about, do you?
You said: Santana > Rush.
Schon = Van Halen.
I'd suggest you hide. Nothing I ever say will look as bad.
Originally posted by Gideon
Oh, and Schon can't? Yeah... Journey's infamous for rigorous touring and 3+ hour concerts. My Dad went to Rush's 30 year anniversary concert, and it lasted shy of two hours with the band taking two 15 minute breaks.
Yeah, because it's harder when you're actually playing hard, complex, technical music for two hours, especially when you've been doing it since the late 70s.
Originally posted by Gideon
Please. When it comes to melodics and speed, few guitarists can match Schon.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Anyone can noodle around on guitars and make it sound dazzling, metal guitarists do it all the time. Whether or not you're actually playing technically hard material is another matter.
Malmsteen is fast, faster than Schon, but he's nowhere close to Paul Gilbert technically. Speed doesn't mean a whole lot without backing.
-AC
Originally posted by Gideon
Yeah, you've done so well, proving Lifeson's better, lmao. Schon was recognized as good enough to play with Clapton and Santana when he was a young teen. That proves his skill. Lifeson's the guitarist for a progressive rock band that never achieved any noteworthy commercial success.
Let's run down your core defenses:
- He was a child prodigy.
- He played with Clapton at 14.
- Journey were more popular.
Plan to come up with anything that...you know, works?
As for your last line, that proves that YOU are the one ignorant to the skills of Rush. Not me being ignorant to the skills (or lack thereof) of Journey.
Originally posted by Gideon
Sammy Hagar and David Lee Roth certainly seem to think that Schon is as good as Eddie.
He's not, though. Eddie Van Halen invented new ways of playing and Schon was left standing in the dust going "I CAN STILL PLAY FAST!", but nobody gave a shit.
Why are you even suggesting that Schon is equal?
Originally posted by Gideon
You've brought less to the table.
Originally posted by Gideon
Schon = prodigy. Lifeson = not a prodigy.
...for the ?th time. Yeah, you're serving gourmet.
Your basis for Schon being better is because he was good at 14. Lifeson is better now, he has been better for ages. It doesn't matter who was good at 14.
Originally posted by Gideon
Yeah. Schon's a 50-something year old prodigy still fronting a band who has done much better than Rush.
It doesn't matter if they've "done better". Commercial success doesn't equal talent.
Originally posted by Gideon
He's still playing, too, but clearly you don't know what you're talking about.
I do, unfortunately for you.
Originally posted by Gideon
Wow! Glad to see that you know why these singers are influenced by Perry. You can read minds, can't you?There's the alternative that maybe, just maybe, the guy's a talented singer, and moreso than Lee.
Maybe...but probably not.
Originally posted by Gideon
Since he was an extremely successful person fronting an extremely successful band (unlike Rush).
Why, oh why do you keep mentioning success? Please tell me. Why does success count? Britney Spears is successful, more than Rush. Put it out of you mind. Success = Nothing.
Bon Jovi fronted a majorly successful band, right? Right. When did he become someone, like John Petrucci for example, who is madly revered for his skills? He didn't, did he?
Originally posted by Gideon
No. I'm the one proving that Schon, at age 14, was regarded as a better guitarist than Lifeson is in his 50s. 😉
Right. Schon in his 50s isn't, though.
Who's better now? Lifeson. Why does it matter how good he was almost four decades ago? Now he's not as good as Lifeson.
-AC