HA! The Confederacy Of Independant Systems crippled your corrupt Republic and very nearly toppled it completely. Your pathetic Clones were out numbered hundreds to one by the Droid Army and would have been wiped out had Sidious not ordered the Droid Facilities to be shut down. Even with the whole Jedi Order on the Republics side, they still couldnt stand up to Count Dooku and his affiliates.
The CIS was power hungry and arrogant, although I would hardly call them corrupt. The Republic however was under the lead of a sith lord who wanted to turn the Government into a dictatorship, thousands of systems against the war while at the same time thousands for it, and a Jedi Order who was blatantly arrogant and wanted to remove the Chancellor anyway (and at that point in time they had no knowledge of him being a sith). So the Republic was in mayhem in dissaray within their ranks, whereas despite being power hungry tyrants, the CIS had one clear goal in mind.
I would say that if something was 'corrupt', it would have a person(s) within the establishment working for personal gain and/or against the fundamental values the establishment upholds. The Republic is a prime example of this, as it has Darth Sidious leading it to destruction. The CIS however, despite having questionable values, all work for the same end result - therefore are not 'corrupt' as such.
Originally posted by Rampant ox
I would say that if something was 'corrupt', it would have a person(s) within the establishment working for personal gain and/or against the fundamental values the establishment upholds. The Republic is a prime example of this, as it has Darth Sidious leading it to destruction. The CIS however, despite having questionable values, all work for the same end result - therefore are not 'corrupt' as such.
I hope you are not so biased and so blind as to suggest that the founding members of the Confederacy - as well as Count Dooku and Sidious themselves - weren't corrupt. Gunray is a perfect example of someone within the establishment working for personal gain. It was the single reason he joined the CIS. Count Dooku was persuaded to think that this was working for his personal gain as well - by Darth Sidious, hence why he was willing to use the council and Grievous as pawns for his master.
The entire CIS philosophy was founded on "personal gain" under a guise of democracy and justice.
They were as just as corrupt as the Republic they battled, and that was the irony to them. They were equally corrupt, and pawns to the one person who was responsible for decaying the galaxy's governments.
Originally posted by Rampant ox
I would say that if something was 'corrupt', it would have a person(s) within the establishment working for personal gain and/or against the fundamental values the establishment upholds. The Republic is a prime example of this, as it has Darth Sidious leading it to destruction. The CIS however, despite having questionable values, all work for the same end result - therefore are not 'corrupt' as such.
The end result being their personal empowerment.
The republic on the othoer hand has elements not functioning for their own benefit.
Your analysis sucks. Don't confuse corruption in the Senate to be a Republic wide cancer. THe CIS was born a tumor of corruption and it died one when it was blasted into hell.
Originally posted by Gideon
I hope you are not so biased and so blind as to suggest that the founding members of the Confederacy - as well as Count Dooku and Sidious themselves - weren't corrupt. Gunray is a perfect example of someone within the establishment working for personal gain. It was the single reason he joined the CIS. Count Dooku was persuaded to think that this was working for his personal gain as well - by Darth Sidious, hence why he was willing to use the council and Grievous as pawns for his master.The entire CIS philosophy was founded on "personal gain" under a guise of democracy and justice.
They were as just as corrupt as the Republic they battled, and that was the irony to them. They were equally corrupt, and pawns to the one person who was responsible for decaying the galaxy's governments.
Fair enough. Sidious himself played both sides of the war, lied to both sides, and used both sides as pawns for personal gain. On that front then yes, I guess you could say that the CIS was corrupt. However everyone below Sidious in the hierachy was working for the same cause - the collapse of the existing Government.
Count Dooku was the CIS' political figure head, and it was his ambition to destroy the corrupt Republic and form his own. The Trade Federation, Techno Union, Banking Clan etc were their for personal gain, I wont deny that, but were still working for the same end result. The CIS and all of its members were not their plotting to take each other over and they had not lost trust in their leaders (at least not while Dooku was alive). Therefore the CIS ranks, excluding Sidious, were not corrupt.
So yes, while almost everyone withing the CIS had personal benefit on their mind, they all wanted the same result. There wasnt anyone within their ranks working against them (bar Sidious), therefore are not corrupt (at least not to me). However I guess the point is that they werent nearly as corrupt and unstable as the Republic they sought to destroy.
You imply that the global good is the Republic. But the Republic was no longer the immaculate Government the galaxy looked up to. It was arrogant and flawed in many ways, for example the fact that all decisions had to be debated endlessly before a decision was made. They try solving this by appointing Palpatine as Chancellor and giving him emergency powers, but this did nothing but esculate the problem. The Government was crumbling, and they try stopping it by giving one corrupt manipulator full control.
So if you look at it from that view, the CIS was fighting for a new Government, a Government that was not falling apart and could essentially prove more effective than the existing system. Therefore the CIS would not be corrupt at all, in stark contrast to what the Republic had become.
The govenment was crumbling becase some arrogant b@stards decided to attack it. It was not crumbing before. It needed a clean-up.
The Republic was corrupt, no question, EVERY government is. However, its a whole of a hell lot less corrupt that the CIS. EVERY memeber of the CIS joined for their personal gain. That is blatant corruption on the highest magnitude.
The CIS was not more effective than the Republic. IT was a military terrorist organization headed at every level by the most corrupt organizaitons in the galaxy.
Being out for personal gain does not make one corrupt. However if you try to achieve something for your own personal benefit, and in doing so directly work against the establishment in which you are a part of, then yes you would be corrupt. However nobody in the CIS falls into this category.
Arrogant and greedy they might be, but they all worked in unison to achieve a single goal. Despite their questionable methods and values, nobody within the CIS ranks was corrupt, and depending on how you look at it, the CIS as a whole was not corrupt either. They were merely working to form a better Government than what already existed.
However I personally wont deny that the CIS would have been the 'antagonist' of the two factions. But I do always enjoy the darker side of politics.
Thats the most cr@ptastic definition of corruption I ever heard. THe CIS is out for nothing but its own personal enrichment. The people and the organization. Its a friggin parasite.
They're unified goal was mass-corruption. To put themselves at the head of the galaxy.
There is NOTHING, NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING more corrupt than that.
Their unified goal was not "mass corruption," but to make themselves the new government of the galaxy, in their minds, they were doing good by getting rid of the Republic and instilling their ways. Yeah, they were trying to put themselves at the head of the government, but how does that make someone corrupt? And if it weren't for Sidious shutting down the droids, the CIS would have won.