Elizabeth

theres something that has been on my mind for awhile I frequent Fanfiction a lot and there are always two kinds of J/E fics the ones that make them "pea's in a pod" and the one's that make them completely opposite but opposites attract right? this is also a topic of discussion between my friends and I.

so a lot of my friends when hearing them called Pea's in a pod say they are too much alike and would fight all the time and be absolutly miserable because they are both stubborn but they are both equally emotional and love each other soooo much they overcome all their fights and still love each other I mean IMO you arent very good friends with someone if you dont fight everyonce in awhile.

but some of my other friends say nononono they aren't peas in a pod they are exact opposites because they are attracted to each other and she is a high society governors daughter and he is a pathetic pirate and that why they are drawn together.

keep in mind ALL of my friends are J/E shippers but whenever we go out and the topic swithes to POTC this is always a bit of an argument and I would like to see some of yall's opinions

Any thought?

I try to keep in mind that even though he's a pirate and she's of nobility, Jack at one time was probably an aristocrat too, or at least from a blood line. From listening to him, you can tell he's very educated and informed of rich people's customs. And somewhere he threw it away to be a pirate, which is what Liz in a sense is doing. There was someplace they both rather would have been and that's somewhere they can be free.

They arent COMPLETE opposites. and they aent exactly alike. Thats what brings them together as such a wonderful couple. Their similarities are what make them love each other and learn how they match up so perfectly well together. But, now, see the differences are what stop them from fighting over eveyrhitng because they are too much alike. The differences also let them learn more about each other. And their always has to be a few differences between a couple for a relationship to work. Because otherwise they are too much of a 'perfect couple' whihc is FAKE. becasue if you pretend to be the perfect couple *cough*WILL/LIZ*cough* then you arent TRULY happy. But since Jack and Liz understand this then their similarities and differences mesh together.<<i have no idea if anything i just said made any sense. LOL i tend to ramble with no point

Exactly. Well said. They have a lot in common, but enough differences to be compatible.

YAY! i actually made sense! (i dont do it that often. lol)

You do plenty. Differences make relationships interesting. Opposites attract, but similarities keep it together and the perfect balance of both does that. I think Will and Liz are too different about important things, like decision-making and stuff.

Yes exactly. Will and Liz are too different but try and make it seem like its the perfect match because of that when they arent. They try to hard to be the bets couple and it doenst work. even though they are too different, the one thing they have in common is wanting a "perfect" relationship that will work. When deep down inside they know it cant (well at least Liz does)

Yeah, Will's still in denial, I think. I had to sympathize with Will when it cuts to him seeing Liz kiss Jack, but the expression he gives when he climbs down the ladder is a thoughtful one. It doesn't even cross his mind that she did it to keep Jack there. He places it on Liz wanting to kiss Jack and he can't trust her now. Then there's that cold "Where's Jack" line that Orlando delivers really well.
But here's what I don't get. It's obvious he's mad at Jack, but it's also obvious Jack did not have the chest. So why would Will even care about going back? It was his idea, and some people have suggested Will's going to kill him, but if Jack is already "dead," why go kill him? You know? If I were Will, I would think "problem solved. Liz and he are done."

okay going along with that, in the script by t and t, there is a line after Elizabeth says "He elected to stay behind to give us a chance," and it says, Will thinks he understands the kiss now.

does that mean Will understands she tricked him, or that Will believes Jack is in love with her and stayed to save her?

Originally posted by willofthewisp
Yeah, Will's still in denial, I think. I had to sympathize with Will when it cuts to him seeing Liz kiss Jack, but the expression he gives when he climbs down the ladder is a thoughtful one. It doesn't even cross his mind that she did it to keep Jack there. He places it on Liz wanting to kiss Jack and he can't trust her now. Then there's that cold "Where's Jack" line that Orlando delivers really well.
But here's what I don't get. It's obvious he's mad at Jack, but it's also obvious Jack did not have the chest. So why would Will even care about going back? It was his idea, and some people have suggested Will's going to kill him, but if Jack is already "dead," why go kill him? You know? If I were Will, I would think "problem solved. Liz and he are done."

ok well to continur the conversation about Will wanting to kill Jack. i know he is already dead an all but maybe...just maybe....Will wanted the "glory" of having killed Jack personally rather than just letting t happen. He wants to be able to give Jack pain himself, because Jack is the reason his heart feels pain because of Liz betraying him and eveyrhitng. its hurting him inside...he probably thinks "well if i save Jack then ill have the wonderful honor of making him feel the way i felt"

^^ make sense?

I see the point, and Will is impulsive enough to do something like that. Maybe I just wouldn't go to all that trouble to kill the already dead rival of my fiancee. Will's "understanding" of the kiss as Kate pointed out could mean multiple things.

well yea sure he understands it but he still felt horrible pain...i mean how u feel if your finacee jsut made out with someone...even if it was to ensure that he stayed away. i mean he probably thought their were other ways it could have happened..i mean yes of course there are but she decided not do those..she chose the kiss instead...hes hes hurt about that....hes beginning to doubt their relationship a bit.

I think kate made a really good point....IMO Will is going back for the ship..for the promise he made to his father and the only way to keep it is if he gets the pearl and THAT'S why in the original version of the script(AWE) he trades Jack for the pearl but he also says(DMC) "It doesn't matter now..the pearl is gone, ALONG WITH IT'S CAPTAIN." which I think is really a POINT there either : A) as much as he hates Jack he didn't want him to die.
B) he really DID understand the kiss but how did he understand it? Did he maybe think it was a goodbye kiss, maybe he thought Jack asked he a favour...or maybe he was ACTUALLY smart enough to know what lizzie did?

see, according to the FIRST leaked script, Will was assuming Elizabeth loved Jack (and dont get me started on how passive aggressive, untrusting, and irritating it is when people assume something based on one crazy action and dont bother to ASK the other person). So if that's the case, Will "Understanding" the kiss would be Will assuming Elizabeth has changed her fiance again and forgot to tell him.

But i think that's changed hugely since the original draft, and from what i hear now, Will may be thinking more along the lines of a kiss as a last favor before Jack met his doom.

But Will doesNOT know Elizabeth tricked Jack, because Jack makes that announcment later on in film 3.

Counting on the betrayals,

In film 2

Elizabeth has betrayed Will by kissing Jack and lying to him.

Jack betrayed Elizabeth by lying to her about Will

Will betrayed Jack by lying to him about the EITC and who he was working for

Elizabeth betrayed Jack by killing him

SOOOO... film 3 comes around, and from what we know

Will betrays ELizabeth by secretly making an alliance with Sao Feng and the EITC to obtain the pearl and get rid of Jack

Will betrays Jack by having plans to trade him for a ship (which is ironic, considering Wills behavior in film 1)

Jack betrays Elizabeth by trading her to Sao Feng for his freedom

Jack betrays Will by trading his fiance and Will's freedom for his own

that's all i've got. So we still need a massive betrayal for Elizabeth to give to Will, one for Elizabeth to give to Jack, and then all the minor characters.

its going to be so good and intense. i cant wait.

I would never go so far to say that Jack and Elizabeth are 'peas in a pod' and exactly alike, because they aren't. The context of that particular line seems to be about whether they trust each other, and at that particular time, they don't.

Assuming that I am looking at this from a J/E point of view, Elizabeth and Jack simply balance each other out, and actively seek to push the other one to their limits, which is where the excitement builds. Not only is it fun to watch, but the fact that they know how to push each other's buttons is interesting to watch.

So it isn't solely a matter of Jack and Elizabeth being exactly the same or total opposites; it's really more of a combination of their differences and similarities that make them interesting.

I can't ever call them hot, though, no matter how hard I try, because I don't see them as being hot together. 😄

In DMC, Will didn't betray Jack with the EITC; he just didn't tell him that that was who he was working for. That's not exactly a betrayal, that's just Will playing his cards close to his vest and being cautious.

Since the scripts have changed so much, I'm not sure how big the betrayals are actually going to be on Elizabeth's part, because I think her role will be to reconcile all the males together, because they are more than likely too stubborn and stupid to do it on their own. 😆

That's a good thought, surreal. I can't see Liz betraying anyone in AWE. I think her betraying Jack in DMC really did her in. Whether she's in love with him or not (let's not argue that for the moment), that kiss is the worst thing she ever did: she left someone to their death. Without discussing her motives, you can tell it's eating away at her and she's had her fill of betrayal.

I would also argue that Jack and Liz balance each other out. Liz is a little disenchanted with pirates by the end of DMC, don't you think? She's seen the dark side of piracy-- betrayal, death, solitude. I think neither she nor Jack are real "pirates." They want to be free and crave adventure. They're not in it for the reasons someone like Barbossa is. She probably will try to play more a peacemaker role in AWE.

Exactly, although, of course, we generally disagree on how much of an attraction Elizabeth and Jack have toward each other. 😉

One other thing I'd like to address is why Will hasn't spoken to Elizabeth about the kiss. My friend's husband cheated on her for years, but she never confronted him, because she was afraid of what she'd hear. Perhaps that is Will's problem; he doesn't want to confront her, because he doesn't want to hear that he was never good enough for Elizabeth after all.

I mean, think about it. He's nearly died for her how many times now, and has stood by her side through her father's obvious distaste of him, (and though it's not in the movie, I assume that Will has had to fight to find a place in high society, who would scorn him), not to mention she had kissed him not that long before...having Elizabeth tell him that what happened between them was nothing would probably hurt too much, so it's better to leave it unsaid.

Does that make any sense at all? I'm rambly today. 😄

It makes sense. I would say why he hasn't talked to her about it is simply that they haven't had time. They were abandoning ship and are just now recovering at Tia Dalma's. I'm sure we'll see him confront her about it when they have a quiet moment alone. Will's usually pretty reserved, and it's just not the time or place to say "why did you just kiss that other guy" in front of a crew of pirates.

I agree with everyone.