Jaime Braddock vs Scarlet Witch vs James Jaspers vs Franklin Richards Full Potential

Originally posted by guy222
Mr M, do u think Braddock has the potential to surpass Jaspers

I'm investigating Jamie more indepth as of late, he has shown immense power, on a rediculous scale.

But Jaspers' potential is to Warp the entire Omniverse,

whatelse is there?

Unless we take into account Wanda's Chaos Wave that threatened the so called "Ascension" mentioned by Roma,

a place beyond the Omniverse itself, Heaven? (i don't know)

"If the breach is not sealed, the Chaos Wave will continue to expand, perhaps to the ASCENTION itself"

Originally posted by Mr Master
I'm investigating Jamie more indepth las of late, he has shown immense power, on a rediculous scale.

But Jaspers' potential is to Warp the entire Omniverse,

whatelse is there?

Unless we take into account Wanda's Chaos Wave that threatened the so called "Ascension" mentioned by Roma,

a place beyond the Omniverse itself, Heaven? (i don't know)

"If the breach is not sealed, the Chaos Wave will continue to expand, perhaps to the ASCENTION itself"

He's quite powerful. Thank u

Originally posted by Mr Master
I'm investigating Jamie more indepth as of late, he has shown immense power, on a rediculous scale.

But Jaspers' potential is to Warp the entire Omniverse,

whatelse is there?

Just speculation from Merlyn. Nothing to say he could or would have lived up to this alleged potential if he wasnt taken out.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Unless we take into account Wanda's Chaos Wave that threatened the so called "Ascension" mentioned by Roma,

a place beyond the Omniverse itself, Heaven? (i don't know)

"If the breach is not sealed, the Chaos Wave will continue to expand, perhaps to the ASCENTION itself"

You seem to be talking about the wave as if it was a direct manifestation of Wandas power as opposed to just something her actions merely set off. If youre not then dont worry yourself with responding. If you are then please prove the point.

Romas saying "perhaps the ascension" shows she is unsure. It is not proof that if unchecked the chaos wave would certainly have reached beyond realitys borders.

We'll discuss this tomorrow gotta go. Work in the morning!! 🙂

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Just speculation from Merlyn. Nothing to say he could or would have lived up to this alleged potential if he wasnt taken out.

Merlyn the Omniversal Guardian, but who's counting.

If his word isn't reliable...

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
You seem to be talking about the wave as if it was a direct manifestation of Wandas power as opposed to just something her actions merely set off. If youre not then dont worry yourself with responding. If you are then please prove the point.

Wanda's power generated the Chaos Wave, she didn't control it, she made it possible.

She breached the walls of Causality which is in her power to do, so she's responsible for the Chaos Wave.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Romas saying "perhaps the ascension" shows she is unsure. It is not proof that if unchecked the chaos wave would certainly have reached beyond realitys borders.

I agree, not certainly.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Merlyn the Omniversal Guardian, but who's counting.

If his word isn't reliable...

Its his opinion that Jaspers had the potential to be an omniversal threat. However that is just word of mouth unsupported by on panel feat of a similar degree to said speculation. Jaspers did nothing on panel to make us say oh thats conceivable.

On top of that Merlyn was just talking about potential. As we all know potential does NOT equate to power. Merlyn speculated about a possibility, thats all, so to use Merlyns word on a future possibility (Jaspesr omniversal threat level) as reason to place him higher than beings with higher level feats than him is flawed logic.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Wanda's power generated the Chaos Wave, she didn't control it, she made it possible.

She breached the walls of Causality which is in her power to do, so she's responsible for the Chaos Wave.

Wandas power never generated the chaos wave. Wandas tamperings with reality caused a breach in the walls of reality which resulted in the chaos wave unbeknownst to her or anyone outside of the Uncanny X-men story arc. It wasnt a manifestation of her power, just something her actions proved a catalyst for. Therefore all of this talk of Wanda with control of the chaos wave is ridiculous.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I agree, not certainly.

Cool. So no little value in referencing it.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Its his opinion that Jaspers had the potential to be an omniversal threat. However that is just word of mouth unsupported by on panel feat of a similar degree to said speculation. Jaspers did nothing on panel to make us say oh thats conceivable.

On top of that Merlyn was just talking about potential. As we all know potential does NOT equate to power. Merlyn speculated about a possibility, thats all, so to use Merlyns word on a future possibility (Jaspesr omniversal threat level) as reason to place him higher than beings with higher level feats than him is flawed logic.

Well I disagree.

Jaspers 238 warped his whole Universe and 616 Jaspers was far more powerful.

And Merlyn is not speculating, he's letting it be known what WILL happen if Jaspers 616 is not stopped. (notice he's speaking in definite terms)

Besides the fact that Cobweb, who's power is to See the Future, was depicted showing us Jaspers' finality if he's not stopped.

"But if this Game is Lost, I see a Universe eaten alive by Chaos, and ANOTHER Universe, and ANOTHER, like Dominos, Tumbling...I see the Future"

Jaspers was an Omniversal threat.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Wandas power never generated the chaos wave. Wandas tamperings with reality caused a breach in the walls of reality which resulted in the chaos wave unbeknownst to her or anyone outside of the Uncanny X-men story arc. It wasnt a manifestation of her power, just something her actions proved a catalyst for. Therefore all of this talk of Wanda with control of the chaos wave is ridiculous.

Wanda caused the Chaos Wave, the only reason the Chaos Wave existed, was because of Wanda.

That's where I stand.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Well I disagree.

Jaspers 238 warped his whole Universe and 616 Jaspers was far more powerful.

And Merlyn is not speculating, he's letting it be known what WILL happen if Jaspers 616 is not stopped. (notice he's speaking in definite terms)

Besides the fact that Cobweb, who's power is to See the Future, was depicted showing us Jaspers' finality if he's not stopped.

"But if this Game is Lost, I see a Universe eaten alive by Chaos, and ANOTHER Universe, and ANOTHER, like Dominos, Tumbling...I see the Future"

Jaspers was an Omniversal threat.

Your point remains unproven.

Merlyn says that Jaspers has the potential to be an omniversal threat if he isnt stopped. Once again potential is different to power. Potential isnt necessarily realized. Potential can be left unfulfilled and just remain potential.

On top of that that potential was only if he was left unchecked as stated. If Jubilee was allowed to run around on a destructive spree unstopped by anything then she could eventually blow up every major city on the planet. Does that mean she has global scale power? If Silver Surfer was allowed to run around blowing stuff without being stopped he could eventually destroy the universe. Does that mean he has universal scale power? If Galactus was allowed to go on a rampage unchecked with nothing stepping in to stop him then he could destroy the multiverse. I think you get the point.

The fact is it was just potential and it could only be met if left unchecked. It wasnt. 616 Jaspers got stomped before he could even reach the universal.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Wanda caused the Chaos Wave, the only reason the Chaos Wave existed, was because of Wanda.

That's where I stand.

Where you stand doesnt justify speaking of the chaos wave as if it was a part of Wandas repertoire to have at her disposal as and when she pleases.

The Chaos Wave was merely something she brought about by accident. Something she didnt even know about. It wasnt something she generated, it was something she indirectly caused by ripping a hole in the walls of reality through her amateur tamperings with causality.

Legion caused a similar wave to smash through reality by messing about with time/space causing a tear in the fabric of reality:

Does Legion causing such a wave as a side effect of doing something else then give anyone justification to say Legion is top tier of Marvel he can unleash a reality warping wave that can destroy all the multiverse?

What next on the versus forums? " Legion with reality destroying crystal wave VS Living Tribunal"? 😬

Ridiculous logic.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Wanda caused the Chaos Wave, the only reason the Chaos Wave existed, was because of Wanda.

That's where I stand.

Originally posted by King Kandy
If I remove a rock which starts an avalanche, it doesn't give me the power of the avalanche.

Simple and concise.

Beautiful. 🙂

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Your point remains unproven.

Merlyn says that Jaspers has the [B]potential to be an omniversal threat if he isnt stopped. Once again potential is different to power. Potential isnt necessarily realized. Potential can be left unfulfilled and just remain potential.

On top of that that potential was only if he was left unchecked as stated. If Jubilee was allowed to run around on a destructive spree unstopped by anything then she could eventually blow up every major city on the planet. Does that mean she has global scale power? If Silver Surfer was allowed to run around blowing stuff without being stopped he could eventually destroy the universe. Does that mean he has universal scale power? If Galactus was allowed to go on a rampage unchecked with nothing stepping in to stop him then he could destroy the multiverse. I think you get the point.

The fact is it was just potential and it could only be met if left unchecked. It wasnt. 616 Jaspers got stomped before he could even reach the universal. [/B]

Actually your point remains not only unproven but bordering fallacy.

The difference is that Juilee, Silver Surfer and Galactus have to travel to their targets in order to eventually destroy a City (Jubille), or the Universe (Silver Surfer) or the Multiverse (Galactus)

Jaspers can gradually wipe out the Omniverse while sitting drinking tea on Earth 616

I think you now get my point.

I already showed you Cobweb seeing an unchecked Jaspers Warped Future:

"But if this Game is Lost, I see a Universe eaten alive by Chaos, and ANOTHER Universe, and ANOTHER, like Dominos, Tumbling...I see the Future"

It's not just potential.

Cobweb SAW Japspers "potential" realized.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The Chaos Wave was merely something she brought about by accident. Something she didnt even know about. It wasnt something she generated, it was something she indirectly caused by ripping a hole in the walls of reality through her amateur tamperings with causality.

Legion caused a similar wave to smash through reality by messing about with time/space causing a tear in the fabric of reality:

Does Legion causing such a wave as a side effect of doing something else then give anyone justification to say Legion is top tier of Marvel he can unleash a reality warping wave that can destroy all the multiverse?

The Chaos Wave was generated by Wanda,

the Chaos Wave is Chaos magic, what Wanda's power derives from.

Wanda was subconsciously driving the Wave.

The Chaos Wave was born on Earth 616 ... Roma said,

"a trans-temporal Tsunami. Originating from Earth 616"

Well if it "Originated in 616, HOW did it miss 616, when Other Universes were affected by the Chaos Wave?

"Your Dimension is a Cancer, bringing DEVASTATION to BRANES (Universes) ALL ALONG the SIDEREAL STRING"

"Sparing Yours condemns the REST"

hum

It seems that coincidentally the Chaos Wave CAN'T destroy the 616 Universe which just happens to be where Wanda is ... 😉

Originally posted by King Kandy
If I remove a rock which starts an avalanche, it doesn't give me the power of the avalanche.

Nice logic,

too bad it has nothing to do with Wanda and the Chaos Wave.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Actually your point remains not only unproven but bordering fallacy.

The difference is that Juilee, Silver Surfer and Galactus have to travel to their targets in order to eventually destroy a City (Jubille), or the Universe (Silver Surfer) or the Multiverse (Galactus)

[B]Jaspers can gradually wipe out the Omniverse while sitting drinking tea on Earth 616

I think you now get my point.[/B]

Considering you completely missed my point, your rebuttal isnt as relevant as you would like.

The point is, that threat level doesnt necessarily translate directly into power level. Thanos is a universal scale threat as stated, however that isnt because he is the equal of the abstracts in power. Factors come into play to get him that status. It isnt necessarily about power.

As stated stated Jaspers was a "potential" omniversal threat IF HE WAS LEFT UNCHECKED.

If he wasnt stopped then his reality warp could spin out of control and go on to consume all reality. However the crux of the matter is that that is a future possibility, a future potential that doesnt correspond to his standard status.

Jaspers as he was on panel never got to achieve this potential because he got stopped before he could do anything beyond warping the planet. Therefore you cannot in any debate credibly try and use a future possibility that was far from realised, a future possibility that you DONT KNOW the determining factors of (i.e. exactly how it came about) as evidence of what present Jaspesr could do.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I already showed you Cobweb seeing an unchecked Jaspers Warped Future:

"But if this Game is Lost, I see a Universe eaten alive by Chaos, and ANOTHER Universe, and ANOTHER, like Dominos, Tumbling...I see the Future"

It's not just potential.

Cobweb SAW Japspers "potential" realized.

Indeed. We were shown the future if Jaspers was left unchecked. Jaspers wasnt left unchecked and he was stopped before he could do anything but warp Earth 616, therefore trying to use that future possibility as a representation of what current Jim Jaspers is capable of now is incredibly flawed logic. Thats like me creating a match up with baby Nathan Summers and then using scans of Cable telekinetically lifting up "Providence" or telepathically synching with everyone on earth as evidence of what the lil tykes capable of.

Again, poor logic. It was a future possibility. Jaspers did nothing of that scale on panel and got stomped way before he did.

On top of that you dont know all the factors which lead to that future possibility. All you know is the current and that future, but nothing in between.

Originally posted by Mr Master
The Chaos Wave was generated by Wanda,

the Chaos Wave is Chaos magic, what Wanda's power derives from.

Wanda was subconsciously driving the Wave.

All speculation, with none of it stated on panel. The chaos wave was set off by Wanda when her tamperings with reality tore a hole in the dimensional wall. That point is actually stated in that scene you have taken that cropped scan from.

Theres no evidence to say it was generated directly by Wanda nor any to say it was controlled even subconsciously by Wanda so dont present that here as fact. Its just your opinion.

Originally posted by Mr Master
The Chaos Wave was born on Earth 616 ... Roma said,

[B]"a trans-temporal Tsunami. Originating from Earth 616"

Well if it "Originated in 616, HOW did it miss 616, when Other Universes were affected by the Chaos Wave?

"Your Dimension is a Cancer, bringing DEVASTATION to BRANES (Universes) ALL ALONG the SIDEREAL STRING"

"Sparing Yours condemns the REST"

hum

It seems that coincidentally the Chaos Wave CAN'T destroy the 616 Universe which just happens to be where Wanda is ... 😉 [/B]

Just before we get started allow me to correct a few errors. By branes she means dimensional walls, not the universes directly. As illustrated in that very issue the chaos wave eroded dimensional walls which would in turn cause that universe to collapse on itself. It removed reality support, bring about chaos!!! lol The points actually stated on panel so if you have the issue as opposed to just a few scans from it then please read it prior to posting a response to that point.

The Chaos wave originated from Earth 616 which is true as that is where Wanda warped reality and unwittingly tore a hole in the dimensional brane. The wave was caused by the interaction of the warped reality of Earth 616 with the normal reality beyond the tear which allowed them to react to one another sparking off the chaos wave. It was the tear that caused the wave just as Roma actually stated, which is precisely why the heroes were offered the choice of closing the tear or having their universe destroyed.

As for your attempt to support your theory about the wave being generated and controlled by Wanda because the wave didnt affect 616 itself. Thats really not the case. Observe:

The wave was travelling on a collision course with 616 anyway and after the last scan after Meggan slowed down the wave, the heroes bound together the tear to stop the wave breaking through, thus ending the threat of the wave.

Just to summarize, as stated on panel the wave was just something set off by the dimensional tear Wanda unknowingly brought about. The interaction between the warped reality of Earth and the reality beyond the tear resulted in the wave. In support of this point the threat of the wave could be stopped merely by closing the tear or by destroying 616. It wasnt something directly generated and controlled by Wanda, it was just the interaction of alternate realities with the warped 616 one as a result of the tear.

No tear, no chaos wave. Chaos wave was topped by closing the tear.

That will suffice.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Jaspers can win this fairly easily.

meh. jaspers is overrated. it is verified frankie's potential far exceeds that nut, sidious says. frankie is psi lord. meh jaspers ain't **** to the PF

Originally posted by Mr Master
Nice logic,

too bad it has nothing to do with Wanda and the Chaos Wave.

Your premature cockiness has always been your downfall. Hav epatience son and wait to see how things pan out prior to firing off.

Have a good day. 🙂

Originally posted by LORDSIDIOUS01
meh. jaspers is overrated. it is verified frankie's potential far exceeds that nut, sidious says. frankie is psi lord. meh jaspers ain't **** to the PF

When was Franklin Psi Lord?

Originally posted by guy222
When was Franklin Psi Lord?

looking for the issue

Originally posted by LORDSIDIOUS01
looking for the issue

did u find it