Forgiveness

Started by Symmetric Chaos4 pages
Originally posted by Nellinator
You missed that you have to ask for forgiveness. If you ask though, God is always willing.

"God can I be forgiven?"
"Of course"
"Thanks. Can I still not believe in your power?"
"Sure."

That doesn't quite work. You have to be seeking God with all your heart according to Jeremiah 29:13 if he is going to listen to you.

"God why do you hate people that don't believe in you"
"I'm just a vindictive *******"

I don't have a problem with god, it's just his followers..

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
"God why do you hate people that don't believe in you"
"I'm just a vindictive *******"

If God hated you He would not want to forgive you, or send his son to die for you. Whoever told you that God hates you is probably come under harsher wrath than any nonbeliever. I think God truly hates it when people twist his message.

Originally posted by Nellinator
If God hated you He would not want to forgive you, or send his son to die for you. Whoever told you that God hates you is probably come under harsher wrath than any nonbeliever. I think God truly hates it when people twist his message.

God didn't say he hates me he said he's "a vindictive *******"

But really I'm just trying to make a point
If you try to define the qualities of God it becomes a deity in the image of man

By the way what counts as twisting Gods message?

Indirect implication, so don't play semantics with me please. I hate semantics.

This may be partially true, but if we define God's qualities based solely on the Bible we avoid man made images of God.

The belief that Jesus was not divine would be a prime example.

Originally posted by Nellinator
Indirect implication, so don't play semantics with me please. I hate semantics.

but I love semantics

Originally posted by Nellinator

This may be partially true, but if we define God's qualities based solely on the Bible we avoid man made images of God.

except that it is people that wrote the bible

especially the gospels Mathew, Mark, Luke, John etc were all people not God

secondly everyone must interperet the bible in some way which leads to redefinition of God for every individual

I know this is tautological but (in my view) there is no objective uninfluenced image of God

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
but I love semantics

except that it is people that wrote the bible

especially the gospels Mathew, Mark, Luke, John etc were all people not God

secondly everyone must interperet the bible in some way which leads to redefinition of God for every individual

I know this is tautological but (in my view) there is no objective uninfluenced image of God


You are right there is no uninfluenced image of God, but there are many things that are clear enough that we can understand the nature of God and then determine what amongst the grayer areas fit the nature of God and those that don't. If we don't understands something we must fall back on what we do understand and work from there. As to your critique of the gospels I will simply say that I actually learned more about Jesus from the OT than from the NT, but that's probably because I love the OT as I was Jewish before I was Christian.

Originally posted by Nellinator
You are right there is no uninfluenced image of God, but there are many things that are clear enough that we can understand the nature of God and then determine what amongst the grayer areas fit the nature of God and those that don't.

unfortunately contradictions can make that kinda hard

even the simple stuff like does god love athiests or even the Jews is really tough to figure out

Originally posted by Nellinator

As to your critique of the gospels I will simply say that I actually learned more about Jesus from the OT than from the NT, but that's probably because I love the OT as I was Jewish before I was Christian.

I was not critiqing the Gospels most of them have very interesting musings on the nature of God and Jesus

all I meant was they don't come straight from god

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
unfortunately contradictions can make that kinda hard

even the simple stuff like does god love athiests or even the Jews is really tough to figure out

I was not critiqing the Gospels most of them have very interesting musings on the nature of God and Jesus

all I meant was they don't come straight from god


If you follow the whole fall back on the stuff that you know thing and then look at the perceived contradiction, the contradictions are no longer contradictions, but simply harsher point within the nature of God.

God loves everybody, I think thats pretty simple. Though God sometimes gets angry there is no evidence that God ever hated anyone.

I know, but that is really a critique, not necessarily a bad one though. Critiques like consequences can be good, bad, or neutral.

Originally posted by Nellinator
If you follow the whole fall back on the stuff that you know thing and then look at the perceived contradiction, the contradictions are no longer contradictions, but simply harsher point within the nature of God.

thats an intersting way to look at it

Originally posted by Nellinator

God loves everybody, I think thats pretty simple. Though God sometimes gets angry there is no evidence that God ever hated anyone.

you say that, JIA says that, the preacher at my church says that but then their are people like marchello who argue almost the exact opposite

If Marchello said that God hates any person, then he is wrong. However, God hates sin, but that applies to the sins of both believers and non-believers and is, therefore, a neutral amongst all people.

Love the sinner, hate the sin?

Originally posted by Fatima
I read in the Quran that people who belive in god and judement day will go to heaven ..christians and jews too .. 🙂

Yeah well what about pagans and heathens? 😒

Originally posted by Storm
Love the sinner, hate the sin?

Yep.

It is a rather arrogant and condescending thing to say.

Originally posted by Storm
Love the sinner, hate the sin?

Nellinator, maybe we shouldn't hate period.

Hatred is a major problem, and is just as dangerous and cruelty and sadism.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Nellinator, maybe we shouldn't hate period.

Hatred is a major problem, and is just as dangerous and cruelty and sadism.


If you understand the context of it, it is not necessarily a bad thing. People lie all the time. I hate lying which is a good thing because by hating the lying I will not lie (as long as I'm not a hypocrite). If I hated the people that lied I would hate everyone and be a lonely bitter person which I am not. Just like you hate hypocrisy, I hate sin. It is not a bad thing as it motivates us to become above the sin.

Originally posted by Nellinator
If you understand the context of it, it is not necessarily a bad thing. People lie all the time. I hate lying which is a good thing because by hating the lying I will not lie (as long as I'm not a hypocrite). If I hated the people that lied I would hate everyone and be a lonely bitter person which I am not. Just like you hate hypocrisy, I hate sin. It is not a bad thing as it motivates us to become above the sin.

You beleive lying is an absolute evil ?

If I lied to an assassin as to your whereabouts, you would say I did the wrong thing ?

If a girl I think is ugly asks me If I think she is pretty, and I lie and say she is very pretty, it would be wrong for me to say that ?

Yeah I hate hypocrisy, but i don't try and justify my hatred for it.....that hatred is toxic. My anger towards self-righteous hypocrisy only hurts me, and does NO GOOD....

My hatred and anger for the corruption I see in mainstream Christianity is NOT a positive thing.....it truly eats away at me, i would be much happier if i simply ignored it. It causes me great anger, and with this anger I tend to cause further negativity by bashing Christianity and making fun of the Faith.....thereby promoting more conflict....

Likewise, your hatred of "sin", your hatred of lying, homosexuality, etc. is just as toxic, and can do no more good than my hatred for hypocristy and injustice can.......