A New Frontier

nice discussion guys; I can't wait to get into it after my exams are over.

Originally posted by Fire
nice discussion guys; I can't wait to get into it after my exams are over.

School is for pussy's drop out and spend all your time on the internet, that will make you really rich and popular with the lady's, especially if you also drink lots of coke and eat pizza and nachos.

Damn. I kinda went crazy with this. It's too long to be fit into one post haha. So here's the first part.

Exploration
Exploration is obviously essential when trying to colonize in unknown territory. You don't know what kind of terrain there is, what type of life is there, etc. First thing, after setting up a base of operations, would be to explore and expand. Detailed maps will be made as the exploration happens. I'd (not me personally, those I delegate the responsibility to) explore and build as I explore, building more "bases of operations" as I go. As the exploration is going, I (again, those I delegate this responsibility to) will also monitor the animal life. I want detailed writings of their habits, whether they pose any major threat, and whether or not they can be eaten.

When we have a more or less stable community on land, exploration of the sea will begin. Airplanes (or the future equivalent) will be used to quickly go over the sea to search for any possible islands we may have missed when first landing. When I am satisfied with exploration of the surface, ships will be sent out with deep sea divers to explore the depths close to shore. Then bigger ships will be sent out with submarines to fully explore the lowest depths. By this time I would hope to have made some alliance with the amphibious species (I don't know...lets call them Oceanites so I don't have to keep saying amphibious species 😛). I would ask them to help in this task, exploring their underwater cities and setting up some kind of transportation system to better connect them with us for things like trade, easier diplomacy, and simply making it easier for our to interact.

Colonization
As far as I'm concerned, whatever has not already been built into a society, I can claim as my own. However, I will be mindful of the balance of nature. I won't totally urbanize the entire little island. Pieces of land will be set as National Parks, to preserve the planet's unique plant and animal life. These will be whatever parts are most densely populated with life, my assumption being rain forests or heavily wooded areas. There will also be small parts of mountain ranges and deserts that will be secured to preserve the unique life that will probably be there.

I will also pass ordinances that will restrict development in certain areas. There will be some urban areas but I will make sure that rural areas will always be, because they will be an essential part of this society (more on that later). A small piece of land somewhere in the middle of the island will be set aside for the space port for Brazil, this is to prevent them from doing anything that might accidentally endanger the alliance between the Oceanites.

Political Philosophies
The society will be split into 3 classes. This class system is in no way a caste system. No one class is more important than the other. No one class can prosper without the other two. The absence of even one class would mean disaster for the entire society. This concept is the backbone of the way the society is ran. This idea is loosely based off Plato's "The Republic". Here's how it is set up:

First of all, I'm the head honcho. Call it what you will. I'm the king, the president, the prime minister, the chief, whatever you want. But I am the first and last. I am here to make sure that the society is ran in the way I want it to be. I guess my purpose there would be as a teacher, to teach the people how the society should be ran.

First thing on the agenda is to write a constitution. This constitution would be written by a committee, chosen by me and led by me. It would be pretty much written from my ideals, the committee is there just for brainstorming and to bring me back to reality in case I would start to make it favoring a group of people or limiting rights of a particular group. It would hold the idea of the 3 classes.

First Class
This consists of the working class, the people. The base of the pyramid; this is the largest group by far. Essentially, it consists of everyone not in the second and third class. Without this class, the society would never be born, let alone sustain itself. A society is only as good as its people.
Everyone in this class is meant to do what is in his or her nature to do. One with the capacity of intelligence to be a physician should be a physician, not a butcher. While one had the freedom to choose what they did in life, with the way the education system will be ran, people will be pressed to achieve the best they can.
The concept of specialization will be reintroduced into the working class, or artisans. Mass production and distribution, with the exception of produce (things that can be consumed like food or natural drugs) and major technology (computers, automobiles, things like that), is not allowed. Regions would have their own specialized producers. For example, each region would have its own shoemaker, tailor, and carpenter. When multiple people in one community want to do the same thing, there will be master and apprenticeships.

Second Class
This class is a warrior class, known to all as the Guardians People are chosen for this class instead of people applying for it. Every year, out of the graduating high school class, certain students would be chosen to be in this warrior class. Without this class, the society would probably fall into a cycle of anarchistic self-interest because no one would be there to enforce the law.
Students must be extraordinarily physically fit. Most would probably have joined a sport of some kind during their life, usually a full contact sport, i.e. football, rugby, hockey, or wrestling. Students will also have at least a GPA of 2.5 on a 4.0 scale. A nation's military should have physical strength as well as strength of the mind.
When chosen, students would of course have the option of joining the military class or remain in the working class and follow the vocation of his or her choice. If the student chooses to follow the path of a soldier there will be some major life changes. Soldiers will be removed from their families and will live in military bases, ideally individual communities would have their own. The bases will be co-ed, kind of like Starship Troopers. This is to make it feel like a real community instead of being separated from society. It is also to give the soldiers a sense of togetherness or family. After basic training, soldiers will be allowed to come and go at designated times, as to not totally ostracize them from the rest of society. They will be able to maintain relationships with their family and friends outside of the military.
A soldier will be allowed to have children. At the child's early ages they will be allowed to live with their mate in special quarters set aside for soldiers who become parents and their mates. They will be able to raise their babies to the age of four, the age when children start formal schooling.
If one parent is a soldier, the mate who is not a soldier will move out with the child. If both parents are soldiers the child will go with the family of the mother. The parents will of course be able to visit their child whenever they want, as long as it is within the designated times.
Tests will be given to determine what division of the military one would join (navy, army, or air force). Basic training will determine who are the leaders. After basic training, there will be daily training to keep both the mind and body sharp.
This warrior class will have two responsibilities. To enforce the law and to protect our citizens. They will be the military AND police force. They will be taught a passionate sense of nationalism and loyalty to this society's leaders and people. Great honor comes from being apart of this class, however one's life is ran, up to a point, by his or her commanding officers.

Third Class
This class is the ruling class, a class of philosopher kings. While this name can imply that this class would have a distinct advantage over the other classes, it theoretically doesn't. Like the warrior class, at high school graduation, certain students will be given the opportunity to join this class. Without this class, the society would become a fascist timocracy.
The student must have shown intelligence, wisdom, and integrity consistently throughout his or her life. It would be easier to get noticed if the student has already held a position of authority, like student government or chairperson of some organization, inside or outside of school, for a prolonged period of time.
This class will be broken down into 2 levels. The lower level will be officials voted into office by region. Each region will have one official and only those chosen to join this class can run. In between polls, they are the voice of the people to the higher level of this class. These officials are elected annually and there is no limit to the number of terms one can have.
The higher level will be like a committee, making the laws of this society. The number of committee members will be equal to the number of regions. Originally, this committee is chosen by me. Committee members are members for life. The only way one can lose their position is if the other members vote him or her out because he or she has become unfit to lead. This could be because he or she no longer has the mental capacity (i.e. becoming old and senile or getting a mentally degrading disease like Alzheimer's) or has proven his or herself immoral and no longer working for the best interest of the people. When a member leaves the committee, the official currently in office for that member's region will take his place. This keeps it semi-democratic.
The meetings they have will be held in an open discussion form, so they can debate issues that are of importance to the people (which will be made apparent through polls that will be held once a year along with the elections of the regional officials). Amendments to the constitution will go through this committee.

The rest of the constitution would be written with absolutely no religious influence at all. It would be solely based on the equal rights of all citizens.
Such things would be, NOTHING can be refused to a party because of sex, color, nationality, religion, creed, sexual orientation, or political ideals.
What does this mean? Anybody can marry anybody. No one can be fired because of the criteria listed above. No one can be not hired because of the criteria listed above. I think you get the idea.
Ownership of firearms would be legal but it would be limited to how powerful it can be and you are not allowed to take it outside your home, its use is strictly for defense in your own home when a Guardian cannot be found quickly enough.
Drugs clinically proven to not be physically addicting would be legal. Physically addicting would be classified as after prolonged use when one stops usage, one would experience severe withdrawal symptoms. Legal mind-altering substances would be distributed just like any other product except with certain conditions. Usage will be monitored, to prevent abuse. Different restrictions will be put on different drugs, depending on strength and effects.

dots lol
This is why I have the committee. To brainstorm on what else should be included in the constitution. After the constitution is complete, amendments would be allowed, even encouraged. I know I am not all-knowing and times change. As times change the law should also.

Marxman you need to either found a country or a school of philosiphy

I must have fell asleep while typing this up last night 😂 well without further delay, here it is.

Economic System
Anybody who has been around me for some time, or anybody on these forums that takes a quick glance at my sig, knows I'm a communist. So really, do I need to say what economic system I'd use in my society?

I believe I don't but I know I must defend its ability to work. So here it goes, you capitalist pigs! (no offense 😛)

The economy of Ericland (yea that's right...I shamelessly named this society after myself and added "land" 😄) will be based on one simple rule. From each according to one's ability, onto each according to one's need. It's a very simple concept. If you work to your potential then you will be rewarded. To fully understand how this will work, one must understand the way the education system works.

At four years old, children begin formal schooling. All schools, up until college, will be public schools. This means all citizens will be able to get the same education, which will be an outstanding education. The first 9 years of schooling will cover a wide variety of subjects. The higher the years, the more advanced and the more in-depth it will be. For example, science will advance into basic biology, chemistry, and physics. Social studies will eventually turn into history and political science. English will end up being the study of different eras of literature. Physical education will be required. The health of the body is just as important, if not more important than, the health of the mind. The arts will also be available, visual arts and performing arts.
All of this is required in these early schooling years as preparation for high school. In high school one begins to narrow down what it is he or she wants to do. It by no means restricts a person. There is a core curriculum which every student will be required to complete. But in addition, students must pick a certain discipline they want to study and are given extra classes for that discipline. If a student finds they don't like that, they can change their discipline the next trimester (school years, which are 9 months out of the year, is split into 3 3-month trimesters).
After high school there is two options. One can continue formal schooling by applying for college or pursue their vocation. If one is chosen to join the Guardians and decides to pursue that vocation, he or she leaves for basic training within 3 months of graduation. If one is chosen to be a part of the ruling class, he or she would be able to continue onto college majoring in economics, political science, or some other appropriate field. He or she could also sign up and help on a regional official's campaign and learn about politics first hand.

The education system is set up like this so it is easier for everyone to find what it is they want to do in life. Happiness in what one does is essential for multiple reasons. When people are happy with what they do, they do it well. The work becomes its own reward. With specialization, people who love their job will make products of the best quality, and will be more willing to teach others how to do it too. Also, all people are required to work to his or her potential. People who don't go against the fundamental rule "From each according to one's ability". It is unlawful and he or she is subject to punishment.

Now, even though this is communism, currency will still be used. Why would a communist society have use for currency when there is communal ownership of property? Well for starters, the idea that communism means communal ownership of all things is a bit misleading. "Property" means necessities. This includes shelter, food, clothing, etc. The simple comforts of life. Now communal ownership does not mean everyone owns everything, but rather nobody owns anything. All these necessary comforts of life belong to the government and is distributed out to the people "according to one's need". Those who produce these necessary comforts of life are technically civil servants. They work directly for the government. They are payed by the government for their services and the government takes care of the distribution.

House makers don't sell houses to people but make houses for the government to give to people. Different size houses are made because of different size families. As a family grows, they apply to the government for a larger house. Houses will always be equipped with climate control systems and running water.

Clothing and food work the same way. As people grow they will need new clothing. Families will be supplied with the necessary clothing as they need it, while they give back clothing they no longer use because it no longer fits anyone in the family. When people have finished growing, clothing will still be needed on a somewhat regular basis. People will be able to get new clothes but on a limited basis. People will receive checks annually to go get clothes. This idea has to be perfected but that's the basics of it.

Another reason why currency will be used is quip pro quo is far too difficult of a concept for some people to grasp, and even when the concept is understood, it may prove difficult to implement since the value of certain products are ever changing. The value of a pair of shoes would increase in the winter or in a mountain village while decreasing in the summer or in the desert.

Now, when I say basic human comforts I don't mean the people are given the absolute minimum necessary for survival. They are given what they need to live comfortable lives. Houses will be roomy, food will be plentiful, families will be given necessary means of transportation (i.e. mid-size sedans for smaller families and minivans for larger families, multiple vehicles for mates that work on different schedules or in different locations, all vehicles will be environment friendly 😄). A few indulgences will be given like televisions, radios, and things like that. Larger families will get more.

The purpose of currency in this society will be for recreational use. Legal, recreational drugs are not necessary, therefore one would have to pay for that. Vacations to other parts of the island or back to Earth will cost something. The transportation to get there, accommodations while staying there, will all have a price. Currency will NOT be used for purchasing over indulgences like 4 televisions, 6 cars, more than one house, etc. That is hording and breaks the fundamental rule of "to each according to one's need".

Originally posted by Marxman
As far as I'm concerned, whatever has not already been built into a society, I can claim as my own. However, I will be mindful of the balance of nature. I won't totally urbanize the entire little island. Pieces of land will be set as National Parks, to preserve the planet's unique plant and animal life. These will be whatever parts are most densely populated with life, my assumption being rain forests or heavily wooded areas. There will also be small parts of mountain ranges and deserts that will be secured to preserve the unique life that will probably be there.

What if it's a mobile civilization that moves throughout the continent and considers everything their own?

The society will be split into 3 classes. This class system is in no way a caste system. No one class is more important than the other. No one class can prosper without the other two. The absence of even one class would mean disaster for the entire society. This concept is the backbone of the way the society is ran. This idea is loosely based off Plato's "The Republic". Here's how it is set up:

First of all, I'm the head honcho. Call it what you will. I'm the king, the president, the prime minister, the chief, whatever you want. But I am the first and last. I am here to make sure that the society is ran in the way I want it to be. I guess my purpose there would be as a teacher, to teach the people how the society should be ran.

First thing on the agenda is to write a constitution. This constitution would be written by a committee, chosen by me and led by me. It would be pretty much written from my ideals, the committee is there just for brainstorming and to bring me back to reality in case I would start to make it favoring a group of people or limiting rights of a particular group. It would hold the idea of the 3 classes.

So you would be a dictator desiring equality between the classes?

This consists of the working class, the people. The base of the pyramid; this is the largest group by far. Essentially, it consists of everyone not in the second and third class. Without this class, the society would never be born, let alone sustain itself. A society is only as good as its people.
Everyone in this class is meant to do what is in his or her nature to do. One with the capacity of intelligence to be a physician should be a physician, not a butcher. While one had the freedom to choose what they did in life, with the way the education system will be ran, people will be pressed to achieve the best they can.
The concept of specialization will be reintroduced into the working class, or artisans. Mass production and distribution, with the exception of produce (things that can be consumed like food or natural drugs) and major technology (computers, automobiles, things like that), is not allowed. Regions would have their own specialized producers. For example, each region would have its own shoemaker, tailor, and carpenter. When multiple people in one community want to do the same thing, there will be master and apprenticeships.

Lets split this up in a few things.

1.) You are going to specialize the classes yet you are still going to let people decide what they want for themselves. It is common these days for schools and classes to become bigger and fuller because of a shortage of teachers. How would you battle that problem? As specialized classes with of course specialized teachers would only end up costing more teachers?

2.) No mass production would mean that there will be room for a huge illegal market from earth to get things cheaper. Who would want to buy hand made carpet that will cost you a thousand dollars when you canget more, a better looking, better quality carpet for less money?

3.) Two questions here, would the master make more money then the apprentice? And does the master have more responsibility like for instance responsibility for the apprentice or teaching the apprentice?

This class is a warrior class, known to all as the Guardians People are chosen for this class instead of people applying for it. Every year, out of the graduating high school class, certain students would be chosen to be in this warrior class. Without this class, the society would probably fall into a cycle of anarchistic self-interest because no one would be there to enforce the law.
Students must be extraordinarily physically fit. Most would probably have joined a sport of some kind during their life, usually a full contact sport, i.e. football, rugby, hockey, or wrestling. Students will also have at least a GPA of 2.5 on a 4.0 scale. A nation's military should have physical strength as well as strength of the mind.
When chosen, students would of course have the option of joining the military class or remain in the working class and follow the vocation of his or her choice. If the student chooses to follow the path of a soldier there will be some major life changes. Soldiers will be removed from their families and will live in military bases, ideally individual communities would have their own. The bases will be co-ed, kind of like Starship Troopers. This is to make it feel like a real community instead of being separated from society. It is also to give the soldiers a sense of togetherness or family. After basic training, soldiers will be allowed to come and go at designated times, as to not totally ostracize them from the rest of society. They will be able to maintain relationships with their family and friends outside of the military.
A soldier will be allowed to have children. At the child's early ages they will be allowed to live with their mate in special quarters set aside for soldiers who become parents and their mates. They will be able to raise their babies to the age of four, the age when children start formal schooling.
If one parent is a soldier, the mate who is not a soldier will move out with the child. If both parents are soldiers the child will go with the family of the mother. The parents will of course be able to visit their child whenever they want, as long as it is within the designated times.
Tests will be given to determine what division of the military one would join (navy, army, or air force). Basic training will determine who are the leaders. After basic training, there will be daily training to keep both the mind and body sharp.
This warrior class will have two responsibilities. To enforce the law and to protect our citizens. They will be the military AND police force. They will be taught a passionate sense of nationalism and loyalty to this society's leaders and people. Great honor comes from being apart of this class, however one's life is ran, up to a point, by his or her commanding officers.

So let me get this straight you force people to become police officers and law enforcers or to join the army. This is their choice right?

Then you force people to live in camps and be with the people there making them form community's, this is certainly effective I will grant you that. However it would also limit their social contacts, when they go outside of the base they will probably want to visit their family and partner. Their mates will have to come from the classes, seeing as you are looking for physically fit people before training starts you will by the very nature of the human body have more man then woman. Ergo soldiers will not get a lot of children.

Not to mention that them not seeing their partners often is going to piss them off and will not make anybody really happy with a soldier, and if both are soldiers they will not be happy with the child being taken away either. You would need to create a huge amount of nationalism and it would have to have been around for years for something like this to work. And even then I would doubt it.

This class is the ruling class, a class of philosopher kings. While this name can imply that this class would have a distinct advantage over the other classes, it theoretically doesn't. Like the warrior class, at high school graduation, certain students will be given the opportunity to join this class. Without this class, the society would become a fascist timocracy.
The student must have shown intelligence, wisdom, and integrity consistently throughout his or her life. It would be easier to get noticed if the student has already held a position of authority, like student government or chairperson of some organization, inside or outside of school, for a prolonged period of time.
This class will be broken down into 2 levels. The lower level will be officials voted into office by region. Each region will have one official and only those chosen to join this class can run. In between polls, they are the voice of the people to the higher level of this class. These officials are elected annually and there is no limit to the number of terms one can have.

And you would criticize my idea? 😛 The lower class of intelligent people in fact is useless class. They would have a thankless job and because they are equal to the other classes little to no advantage.

Why would people want to join that class? So they could talk to the higher class and ask them a few things and tell them what the other two classes think? Yeah woohoo real important meaning of life, if you let them do this they are basically doing nothing.

The higher level will be like a committee, making the laws of this society. The number of committee members will be equal to the number of regions. Originally, this committee is chosen by me. Committee members are members for life. The only way one can lose their position is if the other members vote him or her out because he or she has become unfit to lead. This could be because he or she no longer has the mental capacity (i.e. becoming old and senile or getting a mentally degrading disease like Alzheimer's) or has proven his or herself immoral and no longer working for the best interest of the people. When a member leaves the committee, the official currently in office for that member's region will take his place. This keeps it semi-democratic.
The meetings they have will be held in an open discussion form, so they can debate issues that are of importance to the people (which will be made apparent through polls that will be held once a year along with the elections of the regional officials). Amendments to the constitution will go through this committee.

Seems dangerous to me, unless you keep the power to throw out the comity they can easily create some form of government where they are in control and the rest are not. Kicking people out when they feel like it. Because that person doesn't agree with them. Also I don't see how this keeps it democratic seeing as the people don't vote them in. It makes the comity a group of sorts, where friends will likely stay together.

The rest of the constitution would be written with absolutely no religious influence at all. It would be solely based on the equal rights of all citizens.
Such things would be, NOTHING can be refused to a party because of sex, color, nationality, religion, creed, sexual orientation, or political ideals.
What does this mean? Anybody can marry anybody. No one can be fired because of the criteria listed above. No one can be not hired because of the criteria listed above. I think you get the idea.
Ownership of firearms would be legal but it would be limited to how powerful it can be and you are not allowed to take it outside your home, its use is strictly for defense in your own home when a Guardian cannot be found quickly enough.
Drugs clinically proven to not be physically addicting would be legal. Physically addicting would be classified as after prolonged use when one stops usage, one would experience severe withdrawal symptoms. Legal mind-altering substances would be distributed just like any other product except with certain conditions. Usage will be monitored, to prevent abuse. Different restrictions will be put on different drugs, depending on strength and effects.

lol
This is why I have the committee. To brainstorm on what else should be included in the constitution. After the constitution is complete, amendments would be allowed, even encouraged. I know I am not all-knowing and times change. As times change the law should also.

Most of this I actually like.

The one thing I want to know though is this:

How do you plan to get people to learn and take jobs with more responsibility if they don't get the reward. The way it sounds to me the only thing with power is the committee and you. Meaning anything less does not matter, also I see no good reason for people to join the military unless they are stupid, which they can't be because you set intelligence limits. Or unless they are fiercely nationalistic which most highly educated people are not. There will be exceptions but they will be few.

And you would have a huge chance of them wanting to join the police force or whatever rather then the military because the military has a lot of downsides.

Economic System
Anybody who has been around me for some time, or anybody on these forums that takes a quick glance at my sig, knows I'm a communist. So really, do I need to say what economic system I'd use in my society?

So in this society you would be using an economical system that has never ever in the history of this world worked because of simple human nature.

Now please explain to me, how would you want to attract intelligent educated people to your new world if you are telling them they will have the same power and riches as the poor bastards that clean their shoes when walking through the streets? Why would they want to go back in salary, very few would. Meaning what you would attract is likely the farmers and the lower working class of this world. A.K.A. nothing to build a new prospering planet on.

Now I read further to your education system and you know what, the way it's set up. It sounds just like the Dutch system and guess what

The education system is set up like this so it is easier for everyone to find what it is they want to do in life. Happiness in what one does is essential for multiple reasons. When people are happy with what they do, they do it well. The work becomes its own reward. With specialization, people who love their job will make products of the best quality, and will be more willing to teach others how to do it too. Also, all people are required to work to his or her potential. People who don't go against the fundamental rule "From each according to one's ability". It is unlawful and he or she is subject to punishment.

That certainly isn't the result of the Dutch schooling system, finding what people like and then telling hem to do it, doesn't make them happy for the rest of their lives. Opinions change you know.

The education system is set up like this so it is easier for everyone to find what it is they want to do in life. Happiness in what one does is essential for multiple reasons. When people are happy with what they do, they do it well. The work becomes its own reward. With specialization, people who love their job will make products of the best quality, and will be more willing to teach others how to do it too. Also, all people are required to work to his or her potential. People who don't go against the fundamental rule "From each according to one's ability". It is unlawful and he or she is subject to punishment.

and how would you know if somebody works to his full ability, what is the reason? The reward isn't really there. You would be working a dead end job without chances of promotion which is one of the things that studies show most people hate. So that leaves you with what? Unenthusiastic school kids coming into the real world to quickly enough find out that working long days of hard work isn't all that fun at all. Especially not if they get the same with doing far less.

After all proving somebody doesn't work to their full potential is impossible.

also, how are you going to treat unemployment?

Now, even though this is communism, currency will still be used. Why would a communist society have use for currency when there is communal ownership of property? Well for starters, the idea that communism means communal ownership of all things is a bit misleading. "Property" means necessities. This includes shelter, food, clothing, etc. The simple comforts of life. Now communal ownership does not mean everyone owns everything, but rather nobody owns anything. All these necessary comforts of life belong to the government and is distributed out to the people "according to one's need". Those who produce these necessary comforts of life are technically civil servants. They work directly for the government. They are payed by the government for their services and the government takes care of the distribution.

House makers don't sell houses to people but make houses for the government to give to people. Different size houses are made because of different size families. As a family grows, they apply to the government for a larger house. Houses will always be equipped with climate control systems and running water.

Clothing and food work the same way. As people grow they will need new clothing. Families will be supplied with the necessary clothing as they need it, while they give back clothing they no longer use because it no longer fits anyone in the family. When people have finished growing, clothing will still be needed on a somewhat regular basis. People will be able to get new clothes but on a limited basis. People will receive checks annually to go get clothes. This idea has to be perfected but that's the basics of it.

Another reason why currency will be used is quip pro quo is far too difficult of a concept for some people to grasp, and even when the concept is understood, it may prove difficult to implement since the value of certain products are ever changing. The value of a pair of shoes would increase in the winter or in a mountain village while decreasing in the summer or in the desert.

Now, when I say basic human comforts I don't mean the people are given the absolute minimum necessary for survival. They are given what they need to live comfortable lives. Houses will be roomy, food will be plentiful, families will be given necessary means of transportation (i.e. mid-size sedans for smaller families and minivans for larger families, multiple vehicles for mates that work on different schedules or in different locations, all vehicles will be environment friendly big grin). A few indulgences will be given like televisions, radios, and things like that. Larger families will get more.

So currency has nothing to do with the basics of life, everybody will live in a same sort of house, will have the same amount of clothing the same amount of cars the same this the same that.

Tell me honestly why would you work hard in school and do your best in life when your next door neighbor who is a moron and can't understand how to tie his shoelaces and has no responsibility at all drives the exact same care as you the director of a company that makes more money a day then your entire neighborhood costs to build? What's the purpose.

your idea is nice but it assumes communism can work and you are deluding yourself into thinking that. The closest thing we could ever come to communism is socialism. Anything more then that is insane, it has never worked in any country ever.

The purpose of currency in this society will be for recreational use. Legal, recreational drugs are not necessary, therefore one would have to pay for that. Vacations to other parts of the island or back to Earth will cost something. The transportation to get there, accommodations while staying there, will all have a price. Currency will NOT be used for purchasing over indulgences like 4 televisions, 6 cars, more than one house, etc. That is hording and breaks the fundamental rule of "to each according to one's need".

Which pretty much destroys the reason you have for working hard. Using drugs or going on vacation is nice, but that is just a few weeks a year or some things at night. You said it yourself the drugs are not addictive so nobody needs them and the vacation well you can stay as home as well. It's a minimal loss, besides you with your 25 years of studying hard every day and having no social life at all besides it could still be judged as less worthy then your next door neighbor who creates sidewalks for a living, so he could go to New Zealand or Hawaii when you are stuck in the next door town in your freaking ugly city.

This society would fail because of a few simple reasons.

1.) You wouldn't motivate smart people to come
2.) You wouldn't motivate people to become smart
3.) You wouldn't motivate people to work hard
4.) You wouldn't reward people for working hard
5.) There is no difference between people

When countless of studies show that people want to get ahead in life make more money live in better houses and what not and when smart people often work so hard because there is a huge reward you are still going to start a communistic nation when there hasn't been one in the history of this world that managed to survive.

This is long overdue but I haven't had the opportunity to sit down and write a thought out response until now.

Originally posted by Fishy
What if it's a mobile civilization that moves throughout the continent and considers everything their own?

I know that sounds selfish or greedy, but hey, sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. right?

Originally posted by Fishy
So you would be a dictator desiring equality between the classes?

Originally posted by Fishy
Lets split this up in a few things.

1.) You are going to specialize the classes yet you are still going to let people decide what they want for themselves. It is common these days for schools and classes to become bigger and fuller because of a shortage of teachers. How would you battle that problem? As specialized classes with of course specialized teachers would only end up costing more teachers?

In the working class, one's profession is one's own decision. I will not force anything on anyone, because for my system to work, everyone must enjoy what they do.

Originally posted by Fishy
2.) No mass production would mean that there will be room for a huge illegal market from earth to get things cheaper. Who would want to buy hand made carpet that will cost you a thousand dollars when you canget more, a better looking, better quality carpet for less money?

Masters of a certain craft would be allowed to have "underlings" or apprentices.That's about as far as mass production would get. I may have been a little overzealous when saying "no mass production". I just want to avoid the wasting of resources just so they can have more than the other craftsman. I want the working class to work together for the benefit of the entire society, instead of competing to gain more capital for themselves.

Originally posted by Fishy
3.) Two questions here, would the master make more money then the apprentice? And does the master have more responsibility like for instance responsibility for the apprentice or teaching the apprentice?

When training is complete the master would pronounce the apprentice an artisan. Then this person can go to another community that may need his or her skill or stay under this master and work in his shop.

Originally posted by Fishy
So let me get this straight you force people to become police officers and law enforcers or to join the army. This is their choice right?

Originally posted by Fishy
Then you force people to live in camps and be with the people there making them form community's, this is certainly effective I will grant you that. However it would also limit their social contacts, when they go outside of the base they will probably want to visit their family and partner. Their mates will have to come from the classes, seeing as you are looking for physically fit people before training starts you will by the very nature of the human body have more man then woman. Ergo soldiers will not get a lot of children.

Also they aren't on lock-down in these communities. As long as they fulfill their daily duties and are present for physical training when they need to be, they'll be able to leave the bases and be apart of normal society. Admittedly, they won't have the time to be as sociable as the working class would be because of their responsibilities.

Originally posted by Fishy
Not to mention that them not seeing their partners often is going to piss them off and will not make anybody really happy with a soldier, and if both are soldiers they will not be happy with the child being taken away either. You would need to create a huge amount of nationalism and it would have to have been around for years for something like this to work. And even then I would doubt it.

Originally posted by Fishy
And you would criticize my idea? 😛 The lower class of intelligent people in fact is useless class. They would have a thankless job and because they are equal to the other classes little to no advantage.

Why would people want to join that class? So they could talk to the higher class and ask them a few things and tell them what the other two classes think? Yeah woohoo real important meaning of life, if you let them do this they are basically doing nothing.

However, the job of this low tier is to work more closely with the common people, understanding what issues are important to them and asking the questions on what needs to be worked on.

Originally posted by Fishy
Seems dangerous to me, unless you keep the power to throw out the comity they can easily create some form of government where they are in control and the rest are not. Kicking people out when they feel like it. Because that person doesn't agree with them. Also I don't see how this keeps it democratic seeing as the people don't vote them in. It makes the comity a group of sorts, where friends will likely stay together.

Originally posted by Fishy
Most of this I actually like.

Originally posted by Fishy
The one thing I want to know though is this:

How do you plan to get people to learn and take jobs with more responsibility if they don't get the reward.

Originally posted by Fishy
The way it sounds to me the only thing with power is the committee and you. Meaning anything less does not matter, also I see no good reason for people to join the military unless they are stupid, which they can't be because you set intelligence limits. Or unless they are fiercely nationalistic which most highly educated people are not. There will be exceptions but they will be few.

And you would have a huge chance of them wanting to join the police force or whatever rather then the military because the military has a lot of downsides.

Originally posted by Fishy
So in this society you would be using an economical system that has never ever in the history of this world worked because of simple human nature.

Originally posted by Fishy
Now please explain to me, how would you want to attract intelligent educated people to your new world if you are telling them they will have the same power and riches as the poor bastards that clean their shoes when walking through the streets? Why would they want to go back in salary, very few would. Meaning what you would attract is likely the farmers and the lower working class of this world. A.K.A. nothing to build a new prospering planet on.

Originally posted by Fishy
Now I read further to your education system and you know what, the way it's set up. It sounds just like the Dutch system and guess what

[B]The education system is set up like this so it is easier for everyone to find what it is they want to do in life. Happiness in what one does is essential for multiple reasons. When people are happy with what they do, they do it well. The work becomes its own reward. With specialization, people who love their job will make products of the best quality, and will be more willing to teach others how to do it too. Also, all people are required to work to his or her potential. People who don't go against the fundamental rule "From each according to one's ability". It is unlawful and he or she is subject to punishment.

That certainly isn't the result of the Dutch schooling system, finding what people like and then telling hem to do it, doesn't make them happy for the rest of their lives. Opinions change you know.[/b]

Originally posted by Fishy
and how would you know if somebody works to his full ability, what is the reason? The reward isn't really there. You would be working a dead end job without chances of promotion which is one of the things that studies show most people hate. So that leaves you with what? Unenthusiastic school kids coming into the real world to quickly enough find out that working long days of hard work isn't all that fun at all. Especially not if they get the same with doing far less.

After all proving somebody doesn't work to their full potential is impossible.

I've address the "what is the reason question" before. Love of their job, the betterment of society, the fact that they're living comfortably and not in the slums, and the fear of punishment if they try and get over is, theoretically reason enough.

As for measuring production, I guess monthly reports and a show of a sudden decrease in production could show this. Of course, things like bad harvest, shortage in labor, or other variables would be taken into consideration to make sure someone isn't wrongly accused. That's the best I can come up with.

Originally posted by Fishy
also, how are you going to treat unemployment?

Originally posted by Fishy
So currency has nothing to do with the basics of life, everybody will live in a same sort of house, will have the same amount of clothing the same amount of cars the same this the same that.

Tell me honestly why would you work hard in school and do your best in life when your next door neighbor who is a moron and can't understand how to tie his shoelaces and has no responsibility at all drives the exact same care as you the director of a company that makes more money a day then your entire neighborhood costs to build? What's the purpose.

your idea is nice but it assumes communism can work and you are deluding yourself into thinking that. The closest thing we could ever come to communism is socialism. Anything more then that is insane, it has never worked in any country ever.

Originally posted by Fishy
Which pretty much destroys the reason you have for working hard. Using drugs or going on vacation is nice, but that is just a few weeks a year or some things at night. You said it yourself the drugs are not addictive so nobody needs them and the vacation well you can stay as home as well. It's a minimal loss, besides you with your 25 years of studying hard every day and having no social life at all besides it could still be judged as less worthy then your next door neighbor who creates sidewalks for a living, so he could go to New Zealand or Hawaii when you are stuck in the next door town in your freaking ugly city.

This society would fail because of a few simple reasons.

1.) You wouldn't motivate smart people to come
2.) You wouldn't motivate people to become smart
3.) You wouldn't motivate people to work hard
4.) You wouldn't reward people for working hard
5.) There is no difference between people

When countless of studies show that people want to get ahead in life make more money live in better houses and what not and when smart people often work so hard because there is a huge reward you are still going to start a communistic nation when there hasn't been one in the history of this world that managed to survive.

This is long overdue but I haven't had the opportunity to sit down and write a thought out response until now.

Can't say I was really quickly in replying either so no real worries...

Anyways your entire post comes down to you motivating the people enough to actually love their work. My question here is this though, if it has been shown to not work in schooling systems that try to employ something similar like for instance the Dutch schooling system what would make you believe it would work for you?

My second question is, how would you get managers, educated and successful people to come to your planet? Look at the rich people we have in most nations on earth, they live far above what they need and they could easily give it all up. Yet for some reason they never do, why would they want to give that up to come work for you and your planet? I'm guessing very few except for the most idealistic of them would. And those really idealistic people wouldn't be enough to manage your planet or whatever. Meaning you would have to train people there, but it's going to be heard training people when you can't get the proper workers for it.

Not to mention that the trainers would need to start working as well, meaning that all learning at least at first would come from practice and not theory a nice system but highly ineffective for many occupations. And it also heavily limits your ability to chose anything.

Another question, you heavily rely on the people to love your nation. How would they do so at first? Why would an immigrant that just came there want to join the army and die for your nation? Why would they want to?

At the same time I would ask how would you breed this nationalism, at this moment in time it sounds like you want to indoctrinate everybody you can.

The form of government is also somewhat surprising if you ask me, you say you want to be the supreme ruler to combat all kinds of corruption. The problem here is though that your nation would likely or at least in the situation you sketched become to big to handle on your own (something easily done when you deal with more then a 1000 people). Those groups you appoint to talk with the people and to stand close to the people would have gotten some power, even with you. They would advise you and before you know it you would be at risk at being so involved in everything that all you would see is papers and advisor's talking to you asking for your opinion. Meaning you would indeed be very easy to manipulate.

Not getting into that situation however would require a different form of ruling at the very least, or if not that then just a drain on your country seeing as it would work far to slow. You would run a great risk of becoming to bureaucratic or the exact opposite of it. And you would need others to rule certain things in your stead no matter what. Leaving room for corruption all the same.