Originally posted by Newjak
I'm sorry but before I was being nice because well it is your chosen religion to follow Thor BUT NOW YOU WANT TO CALL ME BEING STUBBORN 😆
This shows your a complete waste of time. Lets see what I said.
Originally posted by AlfheimYou're an argumentative waste of time but IM STUBBORN.
Its no point arguing with you because you constantly twists things around just so you can win an arguement. Not sure if you can read that but I said I was stubborn.
Originally posted by AlfheimWaste or stubborn whatever you wanted to call me I think you got the point of waht I was trying to ssay.
This shows your a complete waste of time. Lets see what I said.Its no point arguing with you because you constantly twists things around just so you can win an arguement. Not sure if you can read that but I said I was stubborn.
And I did no twisting of words or anything I'm just waiting for you to show a good example of Thor's vast intelligence. 🙄
Originally posted by NewjakHonestly your grasping for straws and trying to make loose connections between things. He kept one dwarf answering questions for one night you know how many variables that could have taken place bewtween then and morning. Honestly the dwarf could have lost track of time could have simply been willing to risk it. Saying that Thor completely outsmarted the dwarf is well you know stupid.
Well you decide for yourself. As I pointed out to you dwarves are extremely intelligent. Also dwarves are aware that if the sun come up they will turn to stone, so in other words they will make it their business to know what the time is.
Originally posted by Newjak
As for him matching wits with Odin I've already went ove rthis all he did was say the exact opposite of what Odin said.
I already explained that to you their is a science to intepreting myths. Myths are symbolic there is alot more going on than Thor saying the opposite of what he said. The fact that Thor can actually say the opposite of what he said shows how powerful he is.
Let me try and elaborate again. To truly understand myths you have to try and look at it a deeper and symbolic level, for example Odin is an old man with one eye. Odin is not literially an old man with on eye this is just the form he takes to appear to us mortals. Now pay attention this bit is important......to truly understand Odin you need to understand the symbols. Odin is old, old usually represents wisdom so we can deduce that he is associated with wisdom. Odin has one eye this is symbolic in the sense it shows that Odin makes sacrifices, so Odin represents self-sacrifice.
This is a similar thing that is going on with Thor and Odin. Its not just a simple matter of him saying the opposite of what Odin said. I have already explained that to you.
Originally posted by Newjak
He only got the last word in because despite everything Thor did Odin still got what he wanted.
How do you know that.
Originally posted by Newjak
The hero was remembered throughout history eventually ending up with the Gods in Valhalla so who really outsmarted who?
It was not Thors objective to stop him from going to Valhalla, it was his objective to make his life difficult and thats what he did. Imagine you are trying to draw a picture but somebody keeps altering everytime you do something good, you end up with a picture you didnt want to begin with.
Starkad is not a well known hero, actually.
Originally posted by Newjak
Next as for your he outsmarted a giant with help on planning well let's look at this shall we.
Without help.
Originally posted by Newjak
The fact is yes some gaints are really smart unforuntely Thor never matched wits with those ones.
How do you know that? Name me some stupid giants, so in other words despite the fact that Thor has tricked a dwarf, the giant had to be stupid
Originally posted by Newjak
NO he being helped tricked a stupid giant which believe it or not many giants were stupid and shown to be stupid.
Give me examples.
Originally posted by Newjak
So taking a few of the smart ones which Thor never went against to say all giants are smart therefore Thor must have tricked a smart one is absurd. 😬
Ive actually shown that most giants are intelligent. Logic therefore indicates that the giant must have been intelligent.
Originally posted by Newjak
Also Loki did in fact trick and dupe mutliple gods inlcuding the goddess that made all fo anture take the oath not to hurt Balder. Along with the one blind God 😉
See now your making stuff..again. Loki didnt make anybody take any oath. Frigga made everything take an oath because Baldur was having nightmares.
Its only god who killed Baldur and that was Hod....and Hod was blind
Originally posted by Newjak
Finally as for your 25 points all of them basically try ro make loose connections like Thor traveled with Loki therefore must have gotten some of his knowledge. No where in the Mytos does it ever say Thor learned anything from Loki.
It doesnt have to. If you hang around somebody alot you pick things up. Use your head. Anyway your only saying that because I said you would use this is as an argument against me.
Originally posted by Newjak
Then the rest talk about roles and him using his powers to do things. Maybe he didn't whack anything but he defently used his raw power to overcome and do things like he normally he does. Nothing at all about how smart he is 😬
Im not going over all 25 points again. Everbody else can read for themselves most of the stuff their does not involve wacking things.
Originally posted by Newjak
OK just so we are clear here is what you did.Try to take an arguement between Odin and Thor and try to turn it into an epic battle fo wits.
Well its open to intepretation. Thor was just trying to make his life difficult and thats what he did.
Originally posted by Newjak
You tried to show(with help) how Thor overcame one stupid giant.
No I already explained that. The giant was called Hymir this is a different story where Thor trys to kill the World Serpent. This is not the story you are refering to. You have only come the conclusion that the giant was stupid because Thor tricked him.
Originally posted by Newjak
You tried to showcase one event with Loki where Thor caught Loki when Loki was running for his life from ALL the gods.
Fair enough but ethere are different versions of the story. I will have to find them.
Originally posted by Newjak
Finally he once tricked a Dwarf into talking all night. A dwarf that was A) trying to get Thor's daughter for marriage and B) probably didn't even care about his own life if he was trying to talk to Thor.
Why would he not care about his own life. If the sun comes up he turns to stone. So you're telling me if you knew that sunlight could turn you to stone you would not check up on the time constantly?
Originally posted by Newjak
So unless you can actually show me where Thor puts together some elaborate plan I'm saying it now you've busted 😬
I have already the dwarf. I also explained that dwarves can be considered to be more intellignet than the gods baecuse they created the treasures of the gods. Odin did not, neither did Loki.
The giant. I repeat this is the giant HYMIR. This is not the giant that Thor killed with help. Give me examples of stupid giants. I have already explained how most giants are intelligent therefore this giant must have been intelligent.
Thor and Odin. Thor's objective was to make his life difficult he achieved that aim.
There is also the issue of viking law. I showed you how complicated it could be you did not address any of my points.
Furthermore according to the Barlams saga Thor is the father of the norns. I repeat its not just an issue of him just being the father myths are also symbolic . In some myths the Norns are more powerful than the gods.
and theres this:
http://www.thorshof.org/patthor.htm
However, in the eleventh century account by Adam of Bremen of the great temple at Uppsala, the Statue of Thor is described as being in the centre between Odin and Fricco (Freyr) and when plague or famine threatened a sacrifice would be offered to Thor by his priests.
You can see there that Thor was given more importance than Odin was, but you will probably tell me that the people who made the temple were thick, the same way you said that viking law was simple.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Ok heres a couple of things I just want to addWhen I posted this in the religon forum this is what you said. Now lets think about this for a second. Every man and his dog knows what im trying to get across. How is that you who were born heathen doesnt know what im trying to get across. Maybe you dont want to. Its just an opportunity for you to shoot your mouth off and tell me what to do because you have some complex.
The intersting thing as well is that im the only one in the religon forum who has spoken about heathenism. Ive never seen you there once but now all of a sudden you want to tell me what to do.
Are you serious? Do you really think I'm trying to argue against you, trying to provoke you? Where have I once "told you what to do?" I was trying to give you support.
What I was trying to prevent was you getting offended by a majority of people not understanding why you're getting upset when someone makes a "rude and insensitive" comment about one of your gods. They don't realize that it's no different than looking a graphic novel of the Bible with a Christian and telling him, "lolz, that newb got nailed to a cross!" I wanted to preempt the imminent arguments that would start, like the one you and Newjak are currently having, by trying to make you realize people wouldn't have the heart to try and look at it from your own perspective before they say something that offended you.
Where did I mention I was better than you? When did I once display an elitist attitude? I was trying to APPEAL to a common cause by relating my background to the situation, and once more I'll do it again.
I won't try and pretend I know you or your background, but from my own experience, whenever a topic comes up between a heathen and a non-heathen like comparing Marvel Thor to Thor, it always turns out badly, usually with the heathen pissed off and the other not really caring.
The intersting thing as well is that im the only one in the religon forum who has spoken about heathenism. Ive never seen you there once but now all of a sudden you want to tell me what to do.
These are the types of reasons I avoid the Religion forum. What good could come from discussing it constantly with a group of (for the most part) ignorant atheists and christians? As I said, I have my own reason, but it's not really on this topic, I just thought I'd reply at it because it seems like you're just trying to take shots at my credibility. Seriously, how was that anything other than an attack?
Thats interesting. So in other words because you were raised heathen that means your better than me. What does that say about you?
What is that supposed to mean? Where did I once state I was better than you?
Please dont tell me you're a folkist heathen.
Again, what's that supposed to mean? You're the on one with the chip on your shoulder now. I make a few comments, try to give you support, and all you come back with is "Don't tell me what to do!!" and comments like the once quoted above. You're obviously the elitist now, trying to stack things by who's better. This is no different then brooding Christians getting pissed at other denominations. To relate to something I saw a few days ago here:
Emo PhillipsI was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump off, so I ran over and said, "Stop, don't do it!"
"Why shouldn't I," he asked.
I said, "Well, there's so much to live for!"
"Like what," he asked
I said, "Well, are you religious or atheist?"
He said, "Religious."
I said, "Me too! Are your Christian or Buddhist?"
He said, "Christian."
I said, "Me too! Are you Catholic or Protestant?"
He said, "Protestant."
I said, "Me too! Are your Episcopalian or Baptist?"
He said, "Baptist!"
I said, "Wow, me too! Are your Baptist Church of God or Baptist Church of the Lord?"
He said, "Baptist Church of God!"
I said, "Me too! Are your Original Baptist Church of God or are you Reformed Baptist Church of God?"
He said, "Reformed Baptist Church of God!"
I said, "Me too! Are you Reformed Baptist Church of God, Reformation of 1879, or Reformed Baptist Church of God, Reformation of 1915?"
He said, "Reformed Baptist Church of God, Reformation of 1915!"
I said, "Die, heretic scum," and pushed him off.
Same damn thing.
Originally posted by MightyEInherjar
Are you serious? Do you really think I'm trying to argue against you, trying to provoke you? Where have I once "told you what to do?" I was trying to give you support.What I was trying to prevent was you getting offended by a majority of people not understanding why you're getting upset when someone makes a "rude and insensitive" comment about one of your gods. They don't realize that it's no different than looking a graphic novel of the Bible with a Christian and telling him, "lolz, that newb got nailed to a cross!" I wanted to preempt the imminent arguments that would start, like the one you and Newjak are currently having, by trying to make you realize people wouldn't have the heart to try and look at it from your own perspective before they say something that offended you.
Where did I mention I was better than you? When did I once display an elitist attitude? I was trying to APPEAL to a common cause by relating my background to the situation, and once more I'll do it again.
I won't try and pretend I know you or your background, but from my own experience, whenever a topic comes up between a heathen and a non-heathen like comparing Marvel Thor to Thor, it always turns out badly, usually with the heathen pissed off and the other not really caring.
These are the types of reasons I avoid the Religion forum. What good could come from discussing it constantly with a group of (for the most part) ignorant atheists and christians? As I said, I have my own reason, but it's not really on this topic, I just thought I'd reply at it because it seems like you're just trying to take shots at my credibility. Seriously, how was that anything other than an attack?
What is that supposed to mean? Where did I once state I was better than you?
Again, what's that supposed to mean? You're the on one with the chip on your shoulder now. I make a few comments, try to give you support, and all you come back with is "Don't tell me what to do!!" and comments like the once quoted above. You're obviously the elitist now, trying to stack things by who's better. This is no different then brooding Christians getting pissed at other denominations. To relate to something I saw a few days ago here:
Same damn thing.
OK i'll reply to this tommorrow, but its not as simple as you might think. If you look at the way you have behaved towards me you have not been supportive, in fact you have been rather judgemental and accused me of exaggerating things. Does that sound like somebody who is trying to be supportive?
Originally posted by AlfheimThis is the last reply to your posts because I'm pretty sure anyone with half a brain and yes I am trying to be a little rude right now can see that you've really shown nothing.
Well you decide for yourself. As I pointed out to you dwarves are extremely intelligent. Also dwarves are aware that if the sun come up they will turn to stone, so in other words they will make it their business to know what the time is.I already explained that to you their is a [B]science
to intepreting myths. Myths are symbolic there is alot more going on than Thor saying the opposite of what he said. The fact that Thor can actually say the opposite of what he said shows how powerful he is.Let me try and elaborate again. To truly understand myths you have to try and look at it a deeper and symbolic level, for example Odin is an old man with one eye. Odin is not literially an old man with on eye this is just the form he takes to appear to us mortals. Now pay attention this bit is important......to truly understand Odin you need to understand the symbols. Odin is old, old usually represents wisdom so we can deduce that he is associated with wisdom. Odin has one eye this is symbolic in the sense it shows that Odin makes sacrifices, so Odin represents self-sacrifice.
This is a similar thing that is going on with Thor and Odin. Its not just a simple matter of him saying the opposite of what Odin said. I have already explained that to you.
How do you know that.
It was not Thors objective to stop him from going to Valhalla, it was his objective to make his life difficult and thats what he did. Imagine you are trying to draw a picture but somebody keeps altering everytime you do something good, you end up with a picture you didnt want to begin with.
Starkad is not a well known hero, actually.
Without help.
How do you know that? Name me some stupid giants, so in other words despite the fact that Thor has tricked a dwarf, the giant had to be stupid
Give me examples.
Ive actually shown that most giants are intelligent. Logic therefore indicates that the giant must have been intelligent.
See now your making stuff..again. Loki didnt make anybody take any oath. Frigga made everything take an oath because Baldur was having nightmares.
Its only god who killed Baldur and that was Hod....and Hod was blind
It doesnt have to. If you hang around somebody alot you pick things up. Use your head. Anyway your only saying that because I said you would use this is as an argument against me.
Im not going over all 25 points again. Everbody else can read for themselves most of the stuff their does not involve wacking things.
Well its open to intepretation. Thor was just trying to make his life difficult and thats what he did.
No I already explained that. The giant was called Hymir this is a different story where Thor trys to kill the World Serpent. This is not the story you are refering to. You have only come the conclusion that the giant was stupid because Thor tricked him.
Fair enough but ethere are different versions of the story. I will have to find them.
Why would he not care about his own life. If the sun comes up he turns to stone. So you're telling me if you knew that sunlight could turn you to stone you would not check up on the time constantly?
I have already the dwarf. I also explained that dwarves can be considered to be more intellignet than the gods baecuse they created the treasures of the gods. Odin did not, neither did Loki.
The giant. I repeat this is the giant HYMIR. This is not the giant that Thor killed with help. Give me examples of stupid giants. I have already explained how most giants are intelligent therefore this giant must have been intelligent.
Thor and Odin. Thor's objective was to make his life difficult he achieved that aim.
There is also the issue of viking law. I showed you how complicated it could be you did not address any of my points.
Furthermore according to the Barlams saga Thor is the father of the norns. I repeat its not just an issue of him just being the father myths are also symbolic . In some myths the Norns are more powerful than the gods.
and theres this:
http://www.thorshof.org/patthor.htm
However, in the eleventh century account by Adam of Bremen of the great temple at Uppsala, the Statue of Thor is described as being in the centre between Odin and Fricco (Freyr) and when plague or famine threatened a sacrifice would be offered to Thor by his priests.
You can see there that Thor was given more importance than Odin was, but you will probably tell me that the people who made the temple were thick, the same way you said that viking law was simple. [/B]
You've only proven that which most people already knew that Thor isn't dumb not that Thor is a super genious like your trying to claim.
You look throughout the entire Mythos of Norse Mythology and you'll notice out of all the battles and feats you call upon one possible dwarven incident to make your claim that Thor was in fact one of the smartest Gods to walk the Earth. Nice try but not good enough to convence me that Thor is as smart Odin or Loki.
By the way just to basically grind your little pedestal into the ground. Giants for the most part are stupid. Thor has refered to the frost giants as savages and barbrains in his own battles. One Giant was basically a thug with a head of stone that Thor fought. Which by the way someone else came up with the clever plan to beat that giant.
Fact is Odin once outsmarted the wisest thing in all of creation. Thor mearly said the oppsotie of what Odin said. By the way Thor's whole objective in his bickering was to make his life bad but in the end he was quite well known in his own culture and eventually goes to lead a better life in Valhalla which is why I said i nthe end Odin got what he wanted. Now as for Symbolism I understand but along with that you've got to take some things literally. Odin and Thor were fighting about the fate of a hero not over some great question of their time. 😉
As for Loki I know Loki didn't make all of anture take oaths and I even say so in my post now obviously you must have overlooked otherwise you just can't read. I said Loki outsmarted the person to reveal which thing in nature didn't take the oath. Read a little slower next time 🙄
And your 25 points none of them actually say Thor is smart. Oh he uses his power to control the elements big woopie-doo like you really have to be smart to do that 😬
And as for offending you I could give to cents about your feelings about something. I'm a christian and people tell me things about Christ making fun of him I don't like it but it is the way of the world and I just let it slide and take it in stride. Perhaps you could learn some of the samething 😐
Originally posted by Newjakyou call upon one possible dwarven incident to make your claim that Thor was in fact one of the smartest Gods to walk the Earth. Nice try but not good enough to convence me that Thor is as smart Odin or Loki.
I have already explained how smart dwarves are if they had not created the treasures of the gods, the gods would have died. Considering that fact the dwarves could be considered to be smarter than either Loki or Odin because they were not able to create them, if you cant get that I cant help you.
Originally posted by Newjak
Thor has refered to the frost giants as savages and barbrains in his own battles.
LOL, that doesn't mean that giants are stupid that means he doesn't like them. Just because you call somebody a name doesnt make it true. I have probably asked you four times now give me examples of dumb giants.[B]
[B]If frost giants are savages then Loki must be a savage because he is half giant. Odin must be a savage because his ancestors are frost giants. Thor must be a savage because some of his ancestors are frost giant. Skadi the godess of winter must be a savage because she is half frost giant. So Thor calling a frost giant a savage does not prove anything?
Originally posted by Newjak
One Giant was basically a thug
Why was he a thug? He was a thug because he was fighting H2H and you only have one story of his appearance. So your using one story to prove that he was a thug, great evidence.
Originally posted by Newjak
with a head of stone that Thor fought.
Again let me explain, your ignorance is showing. This is symbolic again. You would know that due to this battle Thor got a stone stuck in his head. If you had done some research you would know that in some temples to do with Thor people would light a stone that would be planted in a statue of Thor's head. Therefore this story is about inspiration, go and argue with the scholars. In celtic mythology they refer to the fire in the head, this is obvoulsy something similar. Celtic mythology is obvoulsy similar to the Norse cultutre they are both Indo-Europeans, they have similar gods and traditions.
Originally posted by Newjak
Which by the way someone else came up with the clever plan to beat that giant.
Yes but nobody came up with the clever plan to beat Hymir. That was Thor on his own.
Originally posted by Newjak
Fact is Odin once outsmarted the wisest thing in all of creation.
Ok since your so smart, show me where it says Odin outsmarted,the wisest thing in all creation. If you check your facts you will see that Odin has outsmarted wise beings not the most smartest being in all creation, and Thor has done the same, not just with the dwarf but with the giant as well.
Originally posted by Newjak
Thor mearly said the oppsotie of what Odin said.
Again for the millenth time, its not as simple as saying the opposite.
http://faculty.gvsu.edu/websterm/ways.htm
The mythologist Joseph Campbell sees myth as metaphors or symbols of the unknown. This "unknown" is located in two places: in the spiritual realm and in the depths of the human psyche. Campbell reasons that even though the divine, or "God," or whatever you call it (him/her?) is ultimately unknowable by human thought, men still try to create images of the Godhead. These images and stories may vary from culture to culture, but they remain valid as metaphors which express our experience of something beyond the human. Remarkably, many of themes and motifs in myths reappear in stories told by widely scattered peoples, which for Campbell means that many of them must be inherent in the human psyche. Thus, myths can also tell us truths about our own psychology. (See item # 10 below and the page on "The Hero's Journey," where I discuss Campbell's idea of the hero.)
Are we getting the message now?
Originally posted by Newjak
By the way Thor's whole objective in his bickering was to make his life bad but in the end he was quite well known in his own culture
Well most people hated him, if you want that to be considered well known.
Originally posted by Newjak
and eventually goes to lead a better life in Valhalla which is why I said i nthe end Odin got what he wanted.
The afterlife is not an issue here, neither Odin or Thor talked about the afterlife they spoke about his life. If you worship a certain god when you die you end up in his domain those are the rules. Thors objective was to make his life difficult, the afterlife is not an issue.
Originally posted by Newjak
Now as for Symbolism I understand but along with that you've got to take some things literally. Odin and Thor were fighting about the fate of a hero not over some great question of their time. 😉
Yes but in order to do that you need to be powerful to do that in the first place. If it was no big deal Starkad would have told them all to go to hell.
Originally posted by Newjak
As for Loki I know Loki didn't make all of anture take oaths and I even say so in my post now obviously you must have overlooked otherwise you just can't read. I said Loki outsmarted the person to reveal which thing in nature didn't take the oath. Read a little slower next time 🙄
Considering as well that it is really badly written I can be forgiven for making a mistake. Considering you have been saying things like viking laws were simple and that giants were stupid and other assumptions I can be forgiven.
Oh yeah and Thor has caught Loki on his own. When The dwarves were making Thors hammer Loki turned himself into a fly and slightly messed up there work. Thor chased after Loki on his own and the dwarves stiched up his mouth. So there is one example of Thor tricking Loki, as I expliained earlier on Loki is a trickster and a shapeshifter he would have used trickery to try and escape.
Originally posted by Newjak
And your 25 points none of them actually say Thor is smart. Oh he uses his power to control the elements big woopie-doo like you really have to be smart to do that 😬
So the elements arent important. The elements are evrywhere, therefore if they were not controlled properly evrbody would die.
Originally posted by Newjak
And as for offending you I could give to cents about your feelings about something. I'm a christian and people tell me things about Christ making fun of him I don't like it but it is the way of the world and I just let it slide and take it in stride. Perhaps you could learn some of the samething 😐
Well I will get offended because you came here looking for trouble, if you are having a laugh I dont mind, but if you are trying to give your ego a boost by putting me down, I will get offended. Alot of the time you have been twisting things around, ignoring important points and looking for excuses to insult me.
Lets have a look at the points you have ignored.
Originally posted by AlfheimThere is also the issue of viking law. I showed you how complicated it could be you did not address any of my points.
I even wrote this out in bold for you to read. I also wrote out viking law in bold and bolded the important bits. Oh well lets do it again.
The lawspeaker presided the Things, worked as a judge and formulated the laws that had been decided by the people. The lawspeaker was obliged to memorize the law and to recite it at the Thing. He was also responsible for the administration at the thing and for the execution of the decisions, and it was his duty to safeguard the rights and liberties of the people and to speak in their behalf to the king or his representative.
So all that sounds simple to you does it? He has to memorise vast amounts of information. He has to forumulate the law into a choerent structure. He has to act as judge and he has to do administration as well. As I pointed out you there would be loads of different laws for different things. Marriage, inheritance, land, housing etc.
As you can see you would have to be very intelligentt to do this. If Thor was of average intellignece why would he be the patron god of law.
Then theres this:
Originally posted by AlfheimFurthermore according to the Barlams saga Thor is the father of the norns. I repeat its not just an issue of him just being the father myths are also[B] symbolic
. In some myths the Norns are more powerful than the gods.[/B]
Again....
http://faculty.gvsu.edu/websterm/ways.htm
The mythologist Joseph Campbell sees myth as metaphors or symbols of the unknown. This "unknown" is located in two places: in the spiritual realm and in the depths of the human psyche. Campbell reasons that even though the divine, or "God," or whatever you call it (him/her?) is ultimately unknowable by human thought, men still try to create images of the Godhead. These images and stories may vary from culture to culture, but they remain valid as metaphors which express our experience of something beyond the human. Remarkably, many of themes and motifs in myths reappear in stories told by widely scattered peoples, which for Campbell means that many of them must be inherent in the human psyche. Thus, myths can also tell us truths about our own psychology. (See item # 10 below and the page on "The Hero's Journey," where I discuss Campbell's idea of the hero.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norns
The Norns live beneath the roots of Yggdrasil, the world tree at the center of the cosmos (although some accounts have it that they dwell above the arch of the Bifrost Bridge), where they weave the tapestry of fates. Each person's life is a string in their loom, and the length of the string is the length of the person's life.
Thus everything is preordained in the Norse belief system: even the gods have their own threads, though the Norns do not let the gods see those.
The norns are depicted as weaving the fates. Again weaving is symbolic in the sense that the norns have to do a complicated task. Thor is their father is also symbolic and considering the fact that Norns in some stories are more powerful than the gods says alot about Thor.
These images and stories may vary from culture to culture, but they remain valid as metaphors
To summarise:
1. Thor has tricked a dwarf. Dwarves can be considered to be smarter than the gods becsue they created the treasures and the gods didn't.
2. Thor has tricked a giant and I have proven that the majority of them are highly intelligent.
3. Eventhough Loki has tricked the gods before. Thor in another incident has been able to out smart Loki when he tried to escape the punishment of the dwarves.
4. There are examples of Thor being tricked but the above examples and others prove he can be just as smart as Loki and Odin.
5. If there are incidences of Thor being tricked by Odin this can due to bias of the writer.
http://home.earthlink.net/~asatru/thor/harbard.html
Odin and Thórr confront each other in a flyting (war of insults) and a mannjafnaðr
(a matching of men against one another with respect to accomplishments and prowess). Óðinn (Harbarð) seems to stand for the nobility, and Thórr for the yeomanry in this contest of eloquenceand wits. The author favours Óðinn, obviously, as Thórr is made to look a bit slow and foolish matching wits with the suave, locquacious and bitterly ironic God of Wisdom. The poem probably is an expression of the conflicts between the nobility and the yeomanry in Norway at this time, as similar conflicts did not exist in Iceland. The Poet, certainly, was retained by a nobleman.
Originally posted by doctorstrongbad
Did Odin have more worshippers than Thor?
In general I dont think he did. I think in Sweden Odin was more popular than Thor. In Norway and Iceland he seems to be more popular. I know in Norway Thor was mainly worshipped by the common people so by default in Norway Thor was more popular.