Iron Fist versus Dare Devil

Originally posted by long pig
If he was allowed a clean couple shots? Maybe. Thor isn't that durable, really. He's been cut by a shaving razor...as well as being stabbed by a regular knife wielded by Zaniac, the class 10 guy whos only superpowers were super strength and, apparently, a talent for stabbing Gods of Thunder .

He's k.o'd the Hulk twice I think with a single punch. It was either Hulk or Abomination. I can't remember.

Definitely wasn't the Hulk. The Hulk has taken the Fist on multiple occasions with no ill effect.

Originally posted by long pig
Danny is superhumanly durable and has superhuman endurance and a decent healing factor.

IF's healing factor is not auto like wolverine or deadpool, he needs to manually activate it. doing this would leave him vulnerable.

Originally posted by Soljer
Definitely wasn't the Hulk. The Hulk has taken the Fist on multiple occasions with no ill effect.

It must have been Abom who was clearly knocked out. I KNOW it was a class 100 guy with uber durability. Maybe even sasquatch.

Originally posted by AcousticDoc
IF's healing factor is not auto like wolverine or deadpool, he needs to manually activate it. doing this would leave him vulnerable.

Originally posted by long pig

It must have been Abom who was clearly knocked out. I KNOW it was a class 100 guy with uber durability. Maybe even sasquatch.

Is the wrecker cl100?

Originally posted by AcousticDoc
Is the wrecker cl100?

Oh, he knocked out Hercules, that's who I was thinking about. In HFH, he knocked out friggin' Hercules! He ripped Colossus' armor with one hit, chopped a giant battle shop in half.

Hold on, I have a shit load more.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
The fact that he's using DD's fighting style and losing compared to his last fights when they were more equals shows that it didn't aid him to well. Look at there past fights, but hey I guess its so illogical to say since DD has used his "style" all his life and Danny has used his "style" all his life. It so obvious that Danny can equally use DD's style as good as he does.

You cant really compare the last fight, with previous fights. Ill tell you why. Matt was bloodlusted and determined to defeat the DD imposter in the most recent one. In their previous fights, DD wasnt even taking Iron Fist that seriously.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Sure it does. DD stated his first mistake was not using the clubs. But hey I guess you know more then the writer and DD. And I guess you ignore that past encounters when he didn't use DD's style.

It sure doesnt. Because Flash doesnt IMP every person he fights means hes hindered? No. There was nothing stopping Iron Fist from using the clubs. Nothing at all. He was WELL capable of using them, as been shown before. If he didnt know how to use the clubs, then yea i would say Rand was hindered, but because there was nothing stopping him from doing so, he wasnt hindered at all. He just choses not to. Its not about me knowing more than the writers. Its clear that Fist knows how to use the clubs like DD. If he choses not to do it, doesnt mean hes hindered.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Fact of the matter is he can use hearing and to aid him for anticipation. That fact that he couldn't the fact he was disoriented as well still means he was hindered. No matter how you put it or say it. You do know what disoriented means do you? Look it up it might help you. But if you don't want to do that here's a brief definitions.

1.Having lost bearings....feeling lost or confused especially with regard to direction or position.

2.Confused not understanding clearly.

Yeah and you think he's in peak form, yeah right.

The FACT here is that we all know that Daredevil doesnt usually use his hearing to aid for anticipation when engaged in h2h combat against normal opponents. Its usually done against opponents who are physically superior to him. His boxing skills alone help him anticipate punches. Daredevils hearing was disoriented due to him being in the city looking for someone. A bunch of sounds and smells is likely to bother him when looking for someone in a city of over 1 million people. When he found that person, his hearing was no longer an issue because he wasnt trying to hear what the person was saying anyway. "Hes saying something as i approach, but the sound of my heart in my ears is all i hear." Daredevil was in so much rage and anger, he didint want to hear what Fist had to say.

As far as definitions go, like i said, when looking for someone by listening in a city with over 2 million people, it can be disorienting, however once that person was found, that was no longer the case.

Peak form to fight? He sure as hell was. Peak form to look for someone in the city is another thing, which you seem to not understand. One had nothing to do with the other.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Didn't have to he didn't have time to train in all his jail time as stated. Just because he's making due with being hindered doesn't mean hes not rusty. You've never seen a hero handicapped and still pull through. Its almost a hero staple to do that. Plus the immediate issue after when he finally was released from prison he immediately looked for the impostor DD. 10 issues of jail solidify the fact he didn't get much sleep and practice as DD stated it himself. Just because in the scans he looks like he's fighting normally doesn't make it so. Hell Captain America when he didn't have the SSS defeated Crossbones and made it looked like he wasn't handicapped.

But hey I guess you know more then DD statements/evidence.

You dont seem to comprehend what was going on. Matt didnt fight in over a month. Matt had trouble sleeping. When he stated he was rusty, THOSE were the reasons why. The words"This'll do", let us know that the goons were the practice he didnt have in a month. Matt was rusty because he wasnt fighting. One he started fighting, the rust wore off. Did he EVER again mention being handicapped in any way, besides a noise going off which happens even when hes on the street? No. Umm, you misunderstood. Matt mentioned not getting sleep and practice in 1 issue ater being there for a month 9 issues after that, and Matt ever stated being rusty, hindered or anything else. After he was whooping ass all over the jail, things were easier for him because people feared him. Inmates AND the guards.

Again, you show no evidence of him being rusty besides the 1st issue he appeared in jail. There was never any mention of it again after over 10 issues.

You cant really compare the last fight, with previous fights. Ill tell you why. Matt was bloodlusted and determined to defeat the DD imposter in the most recent one. In their previous fights, DD wasnt even taking Iron Fist that seriously.

Of course you can and yes he did take him serious to the point that DD even tried taking advantage of Danny when he bowed, showing he was doing anything he could to "win". Plus bloodlusted or anger can sometime even hinder a martial artist because there not as focused and they're letting anger cloud there judgment.

It sure doesnt. Because Flash doesnt IMP every person he fights means hes hindered? No. There was nothing stopping Iron Fist from using the clubs. Nothing at all. He was WELL capable of using them, as been shown before. If he didnt know how to use the clubs, then yea i would say Rand was hindered, but because there was nothing stopping him from doing so, he wasnt hindered at all. He just choses not to. Its not about me knowing more than the writers. Its clear that Fist knows how to use the clubs like DD. If he choses not to do it, doesnt mean hes hindered.

Well I'm obviously sure he could use and chose not too you are correct. But you need to back up the feats that show he can use it as good as DD. I have a feat of DD having the billy club bounce in multiple directions as if it were alive on its own. Too using it to the point to deflect bullets as the shooter. You say he can use it as good as DD. So "prove" it. That little scan you showed of him using billy club is no indication that he can use it as good as DD, which is your claim.

The FACT here is that we all know that Daredevil doesnt usually use his hearing to aid for anticipation when engaged in h2h combat against normal opponents. Its usually done against opponents who are physically superior to him. His boxing skills alone help him anticipate punches. Daredevils hearing was disoriented due to him being in the city looking for someone. A bunch of sounds and smells is likely to bother him when looking for someone in a city of over 1 million people. When he found that person, his hearing was no longer an issue because he wasnt trying to hear what the person was saying anyway. "Hes saying something as i approach, but the sound of my heart in my ears is all i hear." Daredevil was in so much rage and anger, he didint want to hear what Fist had to say.

As far as definitions go, like i said, when looking for someone by listening in a city with over 2 million people, it can be disorienting, however once that person was found, that was no longer the case.

Peak form to fight? He sure as hell was. Peak form to look for someone in the city is another thing, which you seem to not understand. One had nothing to do with the other.

Prove it. He stated he was disoriented. Now prove it with a statement he wasn't disoriented when he found him since you made such claim. I see your lack of evidence again. The fact of the matter is he does use his hearing for fights, bullets, for everything to aid his radar. I'd wonder if DD stated he had pulled a ham-string prior you would argue.

LOOK he's moving ok in the pictures so he must be ok. Thats your logic at work.

You dont seem to comprehend what was going on. Matt didnt fight in over a month. Matt had trouble sleeping. When he stated he was rusty, THOSE were the reasons why. The words"This'll do", let us know that the goons were the practice he didnt have in a month. Matt was rusty because he wasnt fighting. One he started fighting, the rust wore off. Did he EVER again mention being handicapped in any way, besides a noise going off which happens even when hes on the street? No. Umm, you misunderstood. Matt mentioned not getting sleep and practice in 1 issue ater being there for a month 9 issues after that, and Matt ever stated being rusty, hindered or anything else. After he was whooping ass all over the jail, things were easier for him because people feared him. Inmates AND the guards.

Again, you show no evidence of him being rusty besides the 1st issue he appeared in jail. There was never any mention of it again after over 10 issues.

You say the rust wore off, you say he was in tip top top shape. You say but thats all you do is "say". I don't see no quotes from the book. I don't see no evidence. You assume while I make conclusions based off of statements. And no you are wrong he stated in the book he's rusty for lack of sleep and he specifically stated no "practice" as well.
Next you'll show the scene of DD in jail punching a punching bag once and proclaim thats adequate training. And ignore that he was punching a brick wall making his fists bleed to the point that he's even talking to his dead ghost father, while in solitair. That there's no punching bag in fact. He's just seeing that there as it one panel it shows him punching a bag and in the next its actually the solitair wall.

And you probably label that scene as adequate training in jail. I'll just throw out that scene for you cause I know you'll like to use it. Only someone who's desperate would try to use that scene. Lets see if you do though.

And too add another point. 15 minutes after leaving Punisher from there escape from Rykers prison, he starts looking for the poser DD which takes him an hour. So he had no real rest from his last ordeal from jail. Which was a huge battle with all the inmates including Bullseye himself.

But feel free to say DD was in tip top shape to the point that he got plenty of rest and completely healed in the helicopter ride.

Oh, he knocked out Hercules, that's who I was thinking about. In HFH, he knocked out friggin' Hercules! He ripped Colossus' armor with one hit, chopped a giant battle shop in half.

Hold on, I have a shit load more.

Hercules was drunk at the time and it was mortal Hercules. Still impressive but with stipulations.

The Colussus armor was a alternate universe IIRC.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Hercules was drunk at the time and it was mortal Hercules. Still impressive but with stipulations.

The Colussus armor was a alternate universe IIRC.

I believe so. Exiles.

Personally, I believe some of our stringent rules about 'canon' are kind of ridiculous.

Exiles Colossus had the same powers as 616. I, personally, believe that Marvel considers them equal. Likewise with respect to exiles Danny.

However, rules are rules, I suppose. And, therefore, that evidence is inadmissible. Ish.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Hercules was drunk at the time and it was mortal Hercules. Still impressive but with stipulations.

The Colussus armor was a alternate universe IIRC.

Iron Fist punching a giant battle ship in half is totally canon, though.

Originally posted by long pig
Mortal Herc is still a Hulk level guy as far as I'm concerned. As for the Colossus thing, you're right.

Iron Fist punching a giant battle ship in half is totally canon, though.

Let us also not forget that Danny just, more or less, doubled his accessible chi.

Did he?

Well, then jesus. I don't know a single person under herald level durability who could take a punch from the guy without being harmed.

Originally posted by long pig
Did he?

Well, then jesus. I don't know a single person under herald level durability who could take a punch from the guy without being harmed.

Indeed. In the most recent Immortal Iron Fist, Orson Randall - another (perhaps even more powerful) 'Iron Fist' died. But, before he did, he told Danny to take his Chi, the same way he took his powers from Shou Lao.

Pretty awesome visuals, too. He's all DBZ, cackling with energy.

Yeah, he's pretty much twice as powerful as before and looks to be able to charge his chi through other things now (the samurai sword he was holding glew orange, like the Iron Fist effect).

Daredevil may have taken the small majority before, but I don't see him doing so now.

Originally posted by long pig

Iron Fist punching a giant battle ship in half is totally canon, though.

What issue did he accomplish that feat?

Very close....DD for 6/10 wins

IF