Wrong. It doesn't matter HOW fast the Runner or Surfer is. Zoom will ALWAYS be faster because he exists in his own timeframe. In other words, he's several seconds ahead of time.
Wally used the Speed Formula to literally stop time. And Zoom was still "faster".
Zoom doesn't really possess superspeed. He possesses the power to be ahead of time.
Originally posted by Apolloknight
Was it teleportation, I recall runner saying something like, "He didnt know what speed was like until now"meh, its been awhile.
"The Gem didn't actualy make you any faster... Didn't you notice that sometimes you would be somewhere before you even realized you wanted to go there? That's the space gems power of teleportation"
Or something to that effect. I can't remember the exact quote.
Originally posted by Draco69
Wrong. It doesn't matter HOW fast the Runner or Surfer is. Zoom will ALWAYS be faster because he exists in his own timeframe. In other words, he's several seconds ahead of time.Wally used the Speed Formula to literally stop time. And Zoom was still "faster".
Zoom doesn't really possess superspeed. He possesses the power to be ahead of time.
Wrong, the speed formula simply made Wally even faster than he already was, it didn't stop time. In fact his fight with Zoom they fought around the earth dozens of times in under a second.
Light can go around the earth 7 times in a second, so if we say that they went around the earth 36 times in a second, then they were about 5 times lightspeed.
Meanwhile Surfer, as shown in Annihilation, can go light - years in seconds, which equates to over 31 MILLION times lightspeed, and Runner easily is faster.
Runner is a powerful character - but to be honest, many of his so-called feats are rather suspect.
During Thanos Quest, his devastating speedblitz of Thanos was the result of the gem's ability to transport him anywhere before he could even think about it. That whole scene was a ruse anyways, as Thanos had 3 gems already and could have destroyed Runner, regardless of what the runner did, in any number of ways. My conclusion was that Thanos was only playing along with runner - he knew that since he had the Time gem & Power gem already there was nothing Runner could do to match up to that, so why not humor him?
Also, when Runner fought SS - he had a good strength feat where he overpowered Surfer, however I don't recall any substantial speed feats where he overwhelmed Norrin.
Anyone who uses the Space gem correctly could do what the runner was doing in TQ. the gem allows you to be anywhere in the universe - basically insta-transwarp.
Since he doesnt have the Space Gem here (that would be cheap), Runner might have trouble.
Runner (gem) =/> Zoom (speedforce) the gem basically gives infinite speed/teleportation so you cant really beat it.
Zoom(speedforce) > Runner (no gem)
Runner (no gem) > Zoom (no speedforce)
Originally posted by Endless MikeWhen has Surfer ever used such speed when battleing an opponent?
Meanwhile Surfer, as shown in Annihilation, can go light - years in seconds, which equates to over 31 MILLION times lightspeed, and Runner easily is faster.
Because he certainly wasn't moving at such speeds when he battled the Runner all those years ago.
Originally posted by boriquaking55My point exactly!
Surfer has never used light-speed in an actual fight
And if Surfer has never been proven to have gone lightspeed while fighting an opponent (which would include the Runner battle), then how can we say that Runner was even moving at lightspeed during their fight?
In fact, I'm not aware of a single pannel that describes the Runner (without the Space Gem) simply moving at light speed.
Zoom on the other hand has battled while moving at no less then lightspeed on pannel.
Originally posted by Galan007I know someone will think I'm full of crap, so here's the evidence....
Zoom on the other hand has battled while moving at no less then lightspeed on pannel.
While Zoom and Flash were fighting, Flash comments that for every punch thrown they move 1,000 miles:
Earlier in the story, Zoom was toying around with an Amazon, and he still punched her 200 times in less then a second:
So even if we just take that figure, whats 200 punches per second x 1,000 miles per punch?
No less then 200,000 miles per second.
The speed of light is approximately 186,282 miles per second.
So in the Zoom v.s. Flash fight, they were moving at well over the speed of light (at the bare minimum), while fighting each other. As we all know, you can move MUCH faster in a straight line, then when you are zig-zagging while fighting someone.
Shown me a scan where we can say for sure Runner has moved at even lightspeed while fighting an opponent (without the Space Gem), and I might say it's not a ridiculous curbstomp in Zoom's favor.
Again.... galan_zoom ftw.
Originally posted by Galan007
I know someone will think I'm full of crap, so here's the evidence....While Zoom and Flash were fighting, Flash comments that for every punch thrown they move [b]1,000
miles:Earlier in the story, Zoom was toying around with an Amazon, and he still punched her 200 times in less then a second:
So even if we just take that figure, whats 200 punches per second x 1,000 miles per punch?
No less then 200,000 miles per second.
The speed of light is approximately 186,282 miles per second.
So in the Zoom v.s. Flash fight, they were moving at well over the speed of light (at the bare minimum), while fighting each other. As we all know, you can move MUCH faster in a straight line, then when you are zig-zagging while fighting someone.
Shown me a scan where we can say for sure Runner has moved at even lightspeed while fighting an opponent (without the Space Gem), and I might say it's not a ridiculous curbstomp in Zoom's favor.
Again.... galan_zoom ftw. [/B]
Show me a scan of Zoom moving in between Galaxies in mere moments... I thought not.
Runner FTW. kirbyswordrun
Originally posted by Galan007
Again, when has Runner demonstrated this without the Space Gem?
The runner only had the space gem for a very limited period of time. Like champion and the other elders, he didn't have it when he was introduced, and by then he had already been "running" around the universe for billions of years.
Hell, surfer has traversed galaxies in moments with no gem, and he's slower than runner is.
in a straight race, runner wins this pretty damn easily.
Originally posted by Galan007
I know someone will think I'm full of crap, so here's the evidence....While Zoom and Flash were fighting, Flash comments that for every punch thrown they move [b]1,000
miles:Earlier in the story, Zoom was toying around with an Amazon, and he still punched her 200 times in less then a second:
So even if we just take that figure, whats 200 punches per second x 1,000 miles per punch?
No less then 200,000 miles per second.
The speed of light is approximately 186,282 miles per second.
So in the Zoom v.s. Flash fight, they were moving at well over the speed of light (at the bare minimum), while fighting each other. As we all know, you can move MUCH faster in a straight line, then when you are zig-zagging while fighting someone.
Shown me a scan where we can say for sure Runner has moved at even lightspeed while fighting an opponent (without the Space Gem), and I might say it's not a ridiculous curbstomp in Zoom's favor.
Again.... galan_zoom ftw. [/B]
But isn't a battle. It's a race. So the point is irrevelant.
I'm not sure who would win. I'll have to check out Zoom's respect thread before deciding.
