Re: Mace Windu Vs Anakin Skywalker
Originally posted by laser7455
Anakin Killed Mace in the video game in a lightsaber duel so he win this one
Mace is possibly slighty better then Anakin in Saber Skills. Even Darth Sidious could not penetrate his defenses and Sidious uses the same Form that Yoda uses, which is "Ataru".
I know, you've said that, but that doesn't really mean they are equal, it says "possibly" and it is also not a canon source unless you prove it! Is it the author that says it, or a character? Seeing as Anakin was beyond Dooku in swordsmanship, I have a hard time seeing that quote as proof, more of an opinion....
It is the author who says it, not the Count and this is months before ROTS where Anakin isn't as strong as in the movie. At this point Dooku could still be better then Anakin, Anakin advances very quickly, advances in a month more, then most(average potential) in years. So the quote can be right, at the time of Dark Rendezvus.
And it means that Mace is possibly Dookus equal, it is implied that Dooku is better. In this book is said that Dooku is Yodas most accomplished student and before you say what about Anakin, he was Cin Dralligs student not Yodas.
If it is months before, then Mace could easily have grown stronger as well. To back this up, only some weeks (at most) before ROTS, Mace Windu forced Dooku into a retreat, at the time of ROTS, Mace Windu bested Dooku's master in a saber duel. Didn't we say Sidious and Anakin would have a tough saber fight?
How does the author have the authority to judge who is better out of Mace and Dooku? The quote didn't even seem reliable, it was more of a guess. "Perhaps only Mace Windu could....", that doesn't point towards Dooku being superior, it states that they don't know if Mace could or not. He could easily be better.....
Honestly, this could go either way. Anakin definitely has the skills to beat Mace, and Mace is just damn good. Anakin is easily as good as Mace in saber combat, but Mace has an edge in experience and force abilities. That said Anakin's pure raw power is a huge factor as well, as it was with Dooku. Anakin could beat anyone save for Sidious and Yoda in a full out fight as of ROTS, and both those people could lose to him in saber combat. This is hard, could go either way, but I'm leaning towards Anakin slightly.
1.
Originally posted by kamikz
If it is months before, then Mace could easily have grown stronger as well. To back this up, only some weeks (at most) before ROTS, Mace Windu forced Dooku into a retreat, at the time of ROTS, Mace Windu bested Dooku's master in a saber duel. Didn't we say Sidious and Anakin would have a tough saber fight?2.How does the author have the authority to judge who is better out of Mace and Dooku? The quote didn't even seem reliable, it was more of a guess. "Perhaps only Mace Windu could....", that doesn't point towards Dooku being superior, it states that they don't know if Mace could or not. He could easily be better.....
1.No it dosnt, Mace and Dooku have achived ther full potential, while Anakin is far from it. Dooku and Mace cant get any stronger, only learn new tehniqes and that is only in Force powers,
Dooku ran away, because the Jedi wore regruping, if he had stayed longer Anakin would have atacked him too.
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=47&page=108
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=47&page=109
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=47&page=111
2.Don't Authors have to check with George Lucas if everything is all right, before they publish their books and comics.
And the quote means that Mace is perhaps his equal, but probably Dooku is still little better.
Originally posted by Count Makashi
1.1.No it dosnt, Mace and Dooku have achived ther full potential, while Anakin is far from it. Dooku and Mace cant get any stronger, only learn new tehniqes and that is only in Force powers,
Dooku ran away, because the Jedi wore regruping, if he had stayed longer Anakin would have atacked him too.http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=47&page=108
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=47&page=109
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=47&page=1112.Don't Authors have to check with George Lucas if everything is all right, before they publish their books and comics.
And the quote means that Mace is perhaps his equal, but probably Dooku is still little better.
Oh really? Find me the quote saying both are at their full potential and can't get any better. I doubt you can....
No, Dooku ran because he was afraid of dying. Either way, if he ran because there was a 50% chance, or that he was going to lose, Dooku said himself that he WANTED to face jedi, and Obi and Anakin were already fighting Assaj and Dooku had lost of droids around him.
No it doesn't. That quote doesn't even specify how close they are. It just says that Mace is possibly his equal? So? Could mean he is possibly better to....
And for your info, we have debated Anakin vs Sids and come up with a very close match, however, Anakin pwned Dooku's ass hard, and Mace defeated Sidious. I'm not gonna argue A>B>C entirely, but in this case it is actually pretty valuable, seeing as there are no specific reasons to why Dooku shouldn't lose where Sidious lost.
Advantages for Dooku. (Saber battle only of course)
Experience.
I think he has had more experience in duelling people, though I cannot be sure.
Advantages for Mace. (Saber battle only of course)
Vaapad. (Dooku cannot handle to much kinetic power, which Mace style is very, very good at delivering. Is also effective against dark siders.)
Youth.
Strenght.
Speed.
Shatterpoint.
As you see, Dooku's "ultimate saber duelling style" isn't that good when confronted head on by to overwhealming strikes and kinetic power. Mace delivers this as good as any.
Dooku couldn't handle Anakin's speed, Mace in Shatterpoint, is stated to be invisible because he was so damn fast.
If the fight is going on for a long time, Mace will sense his shatterpoint, thus defeating him.
What advantages does Dooku have? A quote saying he strikes fast?
Guys, just because Anakin wtfpwned Dooku does not mean he can take Mace! Mace in comparison to Dooku is 360& better than Dooku, he was just severely overestimated.
Dooku was lucky he made it to episode 3, so killing him does not say anything. It's like Jango shooting a random jedi loser! And guess what, Mace also killed him!
Originally posted by kamikz
Oh really? Find me the quote saying both are at their full potential and can't get any better. I doubt you can....No, Dooku ran because he was afraid of dying. Either way, if he ran because there was a 50% chance, or that he was going to lose, Dooku said himself that he WANTED to face jedi, and Obi and Anakin were already fighting Asayy and Dooku had lost of droids around him.
No it doesn't. That quote doesn't even specify how close they are. It just says that Mace is possibly his equal? So? Could mean he is possibly better to....
And for your info, we have debated Anakin vs Sids and come up with a very close match, however, Anakin pwned Dooku's ass hard, and Mace defeated Sidious. I'm not gonna argue A>B>C entirely, but in this case it is actually pretty valuable, seeing as there are no specific reasons to why Dooku shouldn't lose where Sidious lost.
Advantages for Dooku. (Saber battle only of course)
Experience.
I think he has had more experience in duelling people, though I cannot be sure.Advantages for Mace. (Saber battle only of course)
Vaapad. (Dooku cannot handle to much kinetic power, which Mace style is very, very good at delivering. Is also effective against dark siders.)
Youth.
Strenght.
Speed.
Shatterpoint.As you see, Dooku's "ultimate saber duelling style" isn't that good when confronted head on by to overwhealming strikes and kinetic power. Mace delivers this as good as any.
Dooku couldn't handle Anakin's speed, Mace in Shatterpoint, is stated to be invisible because he was so damn fast.
If the fight is going on for a long time, Mace will sense his shatterpoint, thus defeating him.What advantages does Dooku have? A quote saying he strikes fast?
They wore already old, especially Dooku, how more powerful could they get, maybe if they lived 900 years as Yoda did, then yes, they could become a lot more powerful, but they wore humans, they would reach maximum 100 years old. Qui-Gon was in his 60 and the age was getting to him.
He ran because he knew, that it wouldn't take Anakin and Obi-Wan to long to defeat Asajj and then he could face all 3 of them.
Among the other Jedi, perhaps only Mace Windu would have been his equal on neutral ground.
It says that perhaps he would be his equal, but he is not sure if mace is equal to Dooku.
Mace only defeated him in lightsaber match, without the Force.
I would put Dookus lightsaber skills above Sidious, he stalemated Yoda and Sidious didn't use the lightsaber for 13 years, he also didn't like it, while it was Dookus favorite.
Why are youth and speed Mace advantages. Dooku stalemated Yoda, the fastest Jedi, he had no trouble with his speed and it was said that age has no affect on the Count, his age was newer a weakens.
And Dooku defeated Mace in the past, before he mastered Vaapad, but he did master some other style, before he created Vaapad.
We never see Mace moving so fast in the movies. Anakin defeated Mace because of his superior skill, if it was only because of his stile, then anyone can defeat the Count, like some 13 year old padawan, just because his style uses more kinetic energy.
Originally posted by Count MakashiSo? age was getting to yoda and it didnt effect him
They wore already old, especially Dooku, how more powerful could they get, maybe if they lived 900 years as Yoda did, then yes, they could become a lot more powerful, but they wore humans, they would reach maximum 100 years old. Qui-Gon was in his 60 and the age was getting to him.
Originally posted by Count MakashiAnd believe me, mace saber skills are far beyond dooku
Among the other Jedi, perhaps only Mace Windu would have been his equal on neutral ground.
It says that perhaps he would be his equal, but he is not sure if mace is equal to Dooku.
Originally posted by Count MakashiDookus saber skills above sidious? what the fcuk are you saying? Clearly dooku ran from yoda and sidious stalemated yoda when being out-of-practise for 13 years, and sidious pwned 3 jedi masters very quickly and during the TPM era, he could move faster than the eye can see, sidious > dookus makashi sadly
Mace only defeated him in lightsaber match, without the Force.
I would put Dookus lightsaber skills above Sidious, he stalemated Yoda and Sidious didn't use the lightsaber for 13 years, he also didn't like it, while it was Dookus favorite.
Originally posted by Count MakashiLOL! when did dooku ever stalemated yoda? he ran away remember!
Why are youth and speed Mace advantages. Dooku stalemated Yoda, the fastest Jedi,
Originally posted by Count MakashiYea dooku defeated mace before mace even mastered the basics of Form VII juyo and vaapad form which put sidious on his ass.
he had no trouble with his speed and it was said that age has no affect on the Count, his age was newer a weakens.
And Dooku defeated Mace in the past,
Originally posted by Count MakashiAnakin attackes mace when mace was disteratced focusing on killing sidious, anakin NEVER dueled mace, the game may show this but the movie DID NOT, and movies are higher canon
We never see Mace moving so fast in the movies. Anakin defeated Mace because of his superior skill,
Originally posted by Count MakashiAnd djem so and vaapad creates ALOT more kinetic energy
if it was only because of his stile, then anyone can defeat the Count, like some 13 year old padawan, just because his style uses more kinetic energy.
Originally posted by Count Makashi
They wore already old, especially Dooku, how more powerful could they get, maybe if they lived 900 years as Yoda did, then yes, they could become a lot more powerful, but they wore humans, they would reach maximum 100 years old. Qui-Gon was in his 60 and the age was getting to him.He ran because he knew, that it wouldn't take Anakin and Obi-Wan to long to defeat Asajj and then he could face all 3 of them.
Among the other Jedi, perhaps only Mace Windu would have been his equal on neutral ground.
It says that perhaps he would be his equal, but he is not sure if mace is equal to Dooku.Mace only defeated him in lightsaber match, without the Force.
I would put Dookus lightsaber skills above Sidious, he stalemated Yoda and Sidious didn't use the lightsaber for 13 years, he also didn't like it, while it was Dookus favorite.Why are youth and speed Mace advantages. Dooku stalemated Yoda, the fastest Jedi, he had no trouble with his speed and it was said that age has no affect on the Count, his age was newer a weakens.
And Dooku defeated Mace in the past, before he mastered Vaapad, but he did master some other style, before he created Vaapad.We never see Mace moving so fast in the movies. Anakin defeated Mace because of his superior skill, if it was only because of his stile, then anyone can defeat the Count, like some 13 year old padawan, just because his style uses more kinetic energy.
Again, tell me where it says they were already at full potential. Luke is already way over Mace's age, he is "still getting stronger", I don't see how Mace couldn't...
Proof? He didn't worry at all about either Anakin nor Obi-Wan, they were fighting Assaj AND Dooku had alot of droids neraby. I'd say Dooku knew fully well that he could lose this match.
It says Mace is possibly his equal. Does this mean he must either be lesser than Dooku or equal? No, he could be above him as well....
What's the difference? This is a saber match, he defeated Sidious in a saber match.
And I'd put Sidious equal or above Dooku, he has mastered ALL the styles and has a higher force connection than Dooku.
And Dooku did not stalemate Yoda, he got utterly toyed by him. Even on the dark side planet where it said possibly no jedi was equal to Dooku, Yoda still defeated him, even when he had to save someone using the force, and fighting Dooku AT THE SAME TIME! Yoda is way above Dooku, Yoda and Mace are considered very close....
No, Dooku did not stalemate Yoda, he ran.
Mace is so fast he is invisible, that is said in Shatterpoint. Nowhere does Dooku reach that speed unless you prove it. Hell, Vaapad was even compared to Luke's style in speed....
It has even MORE kinetic power than Anakin's style, so how would Dooku stand a chance when he didn't against Anakin?
The Count's age WAS a burden. In his normal state enhanced with the force he had the strenght of a 40 year old, when bashed down by Anakin the years came back to him, same deal here....
And you do realise that the Mace that Dooku HAD defeated (it didn't say that happened every time, he bested him once from what we knew, hell, Mace could've bested Yoda at one point, doesn't prove anything) was actually about equal to Darth Maul? Mace wasn't even NEAR the Mace of ROTS, not even near.....
When the **** did Anakin beat Mace? Nowhere...
You judge the actors, not the characters....
And for crying out loud, don't you get that Mace is one of if not THE best user of such kinetic force in the whole order? It ain't ****ing comparable to a 13 year old damn padawan.
Mace would definitely win; I’m surprised there’s even an argument otherwise.
His shatterpoint can identify weaknesses in character, something that Anakin has an overabundance in:
Out where the shadow's fear made it hesitate. Out where the shadow's fear turned some of its Force-powered speed into a Force-powered grip on the slippery permacrete.
Out where Mace could flick his blade in one precise arc and slash the shadow's lightsaber in half.
Anakin has far too many weaknesses in character that giving into the darkside could possibly be beneficial for him in this fight. If he were to give in to the darkness, his “fear, hatred, and anger” can be used completely and utterly against him as it was done to Palpatine. The more negative emotions he gives in to, the harder he gets pwned.
What more, Anakin could barely make out Palpatine, described as a “blur,” whereas Mace was capable of making it out, and retaliating effectively enough to put the “shadow” (Palpatine) on his ass. Anakin mentions “The shadow he fought, that blur of speed-could that be Palpatine?” In the movies, Anakin walks into the room just in time to catch a glimpse of the battle before Palpatine is subdued.
So this lends credance to the fact that Anakin's reflexes and precog are lower than Mace's by ROTS. With Vaapad, Shatterpoint, and his own exception lightsaber skills and precognitive abilities, Mace would be able to take down Anakin in a comfortable victory.