Jack, Elizabeth, the compass, and all those quotes....

No, the reason Tia needs Jack is not connected to Jack stabbing the heart...at least not that I've heard. 😉

SPOILERS ABOUT NORRINGTON>>>>DO NOT READ IF YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

**Norrington's sword is linked to his death, but I don't believe he gets stabbed with it. **

However, why it remains until nearly the last scene in the film is a bit of a mystery to me, so I'm hoping it's a good thing. 😄

**As in, James is coming back. But I dunno for sure.**

I know, I know you all are so hopeful about J/E, and although it's mean of me to keep pointing it out, that script of CotBP where they clearly establish more of a love pyramid ( a bit of Norrington included in that!!!! ), they set it up so that Elizabeth chooses from the three men present, and er...it isn't Jack.

What is clear to me is that TnT wanted to establish a true love pyramid, and set up doubt in whom Elizabeth would choose. There isn't a hesitation on her part at all in that script.

And in DMC, the commentary there are a few lines that can't entirely be ignored are these (not the exact quotes, since I don't have the commentary written down 😛 ): "What doesn't get debated much is how much Elizabeth weighs Will life into her actions." and also, "We decided the only way for Elizabeth to kiss Jack and for it to remain true to the characters was to have Will's life be at stake".

I can't help it; I can't just let you all work yourself up to J/E stuff only to be disappointed when AWE comes out. Better to deal with the disappointment now rather than to have the movie ruined half-way through for you. 😄

Omg Im sooo dissapointed 🙄

Good Grief, they could've put her to take a damn sword to make Jack stay. Instead they decided to torture us into making it a hot kiss. And I do know what happens to Norrington. No spoilers there *shrugs*.

It's ok Chiki...just let it all out now so you can enjoy AWE. 😉

I can't help it; I can't just let you all work yourself up to J/E stuff only to be disappointed when AWE comes out. Better to deal with the disappointment now rather than to have the movie ruined half-way through for you

~~~~~~~~~~

You reek of bullshit! Concerned for JEers feelings my ass. LOL

Another poster, another agenda...

I need to play the world's smallest violin 🙂

While I still believe there is a ton of evidence for a J/E pairing, Surreal is right that some of this stuff just needs to be thrown out either because it's making something out of nothing or it's just too confusing like the damn compass. Kate was talking about the Tia Dalma scene earlier and it got me thinking and we really need to throw out the "a woman" thing even if the writers comment on it.

LovelyOne and others said earlier everyone answers the question, "What vexes all men" with what vexes them. Even though plenty of things are vexing Will, he doesn't answer. Gibbs tries first with "the sea," Pintel/Ragetti (I get them confused) says, "sums," and the other, cuter one says, "the dichotomy of good and evil." Jack finally gets frustrated and tells them "a woman," which is clearly the right answer. People say Jack knows it because a woman is vexing him at the moment. But there are some counters to this I'm interested in sharing.

1. If everyone is guessing, why the hell would Gibbs say, "the sea?" He's a freakin' encyclopedia when it comes to the sea and it doesn't confuse/vex him at all. Also, Gibbs argues with Tia and says he had always heard Davy Jones fell in love with the sea. He's not guessing here. He's sharing what he's heard before. That means there is a possibility other characters (Jack) aren't guessing based on what vexes them.

2. Jack has heard the story before! As people have analyzed, he's not there to gain information about Davy. He's there for Will's benefit and also to see if Tia can help him with his black spot issue. He knows the story and is beginning to think Tia's retelling of it is a waste of time. There doesn't HAVE to be a woman involved, even though there is.

3. Okay, I'm a woman and a woman was not vexing me when I went to go see the movie, but when Tia asked the question, I thought to myself, "a woman." It's kind of a common sense answer, and I think if Jack were real, he'd be smarter than me, so if I got it right, he should get it right.

4. Will should be pretty vexed. Liz is in jail about to hang and he's been here, there, and everywhere looking for Jack who is less than eager to help him. Notice Jack just doesn't hand over the compass and wish him luck. So a lot should be vexing Will, yet he doesn't attempt an answer. He's the ONLY ONE THERE TO GAIN INFORMATION. Everyone else has already heard it, or is just a member of the crew. This is only new to Will, so he's the only one who should really be making an educated guess.

Any thoughts?

*facepalm*

Come on guys, you're going to let Surreal get you down of all people? She didn't post anything we didn't already know from the commentary. No one here denies Willabeth and their connection, but God forbid a Willabether or a anti-JEer acknowledges anything positive about Jack and Elizabeth. But hey, I guess if the wrtiers want to make CotBP part two, they can go for a cheesy Willabeth ending.

TnT don't waste scenes, and they sure as hell don't throw things into movies without thinking it through. There is no doubt that Elizabeth is vexing Jack and his compass. To even think that it was Will that is actually vexed is ludicrious at this point. Sorry guys.

And futhermore if you think that JE is going to be railroaded over and forgotten after all that has happened, you're kidding yourself.

Also, Gibbs mentioned on how something has Jack vexed. So he couldn't say a woman in Tia's hut..?

Also on the "woman" thing. My first answer that came to mind was a woman. "What vexes all men?" I don't think treassure or the sea could make a man so, umm, how should I put it...so lost in thought-just not being himself. Jack hasn't been himself since that day he left Port Royal. Proof has it when Gibbs mentions on how they have been waiting for something more "shiny" for a while.

So this has been buggin' Jack for quiet a while. To have a woman vex him like that, that could last maybe a year since he left port royal must mean something. If he could've want her as a pleassurable company in his cabin, he could've moved on and sleep with any other wench. But I doubt Jack had Liz in his mind because he wants to bed her. A feeling like that is not being vexed and it certainly can't be something to last a year or two.

Oh, and I agree, willo 🙂

Exactly what I'm saying. Let's throw away the piddly evidence and talk about the huge pieces of evidence. I'm not saying Will is vexed or that should be a focal point. I'm saying that piece of evidence needs to be thrown out because it's small and doesn't really apply to the story that much. Will SHOULD be vexed, but he's NOT. Jack IS vexed, but that's not really influencing the conversation I was talking about. All I'm saying is that J/E does not dominate every scene. These movies are about other things, too, and you can't find J/E in every line, every scene, unless you're specifically looking for it.

So to once again prove I'm a J/E shipper, I will agree with you and say there should be no doubt in anyone's mind it's Lizzie bugging the hell out of Jack. "Jack Sparrow doesn't know what he wants. Or maybe he do, but he loathe to claim it for his own." T&T say the same thing: he wants Liz but does not want to want her.

AND....

They say during the kiss that even though they decided to throw in a situation where Liz would kiss Jack to save Will, they do say Liz somewhat admits she has feelings for Jack to him when she leans in for another, only to catch herself at the last minute.

Yes I know that as well. I've heard/read the commentary multiple times, practically have it memorized, and I'm not saying every scene is J/E. I know it's not. I acknowledge Willabeth. I'm just saying it's like damn you let Surreal come here and almost treat her word as gospel or something. Can't you see she's baiting you?

Nevermind. I've seen her on other boards...

I'll just be quiet...carry on 🙂

Look, I'm a Sparrabether, no doubt about it. But, when you really look into this movie, is really about the exciting, wonderful lives of pirates. That's why it's called Pirates of the Caribbean. Sure, they have love scenes, but this whole movie isn't surrounded by Jack and Liz or Will and Liz.

Is really seeing on how pirates face the challenges of their everyday lives as pirates and how they survive.

"Yes I know that as well. I've heard/read the commentary multiple times, practically have it memorized, and I'm not saying every scene is J/E. I know it's not. I acknowledge Willabeth. I'm just saying it's like damn you let Surreal come here and almost treat her word as gospel or something. Can't you see she's baiting you?

Nevermind. I've seen her on other boards...

I'll just be quiet...carry on"------ludagurl3d

What the hell? It's a movie and this is a message board. No one's "baiting" anyone. I enjoy debating with Surreal, that's all. I don't want to kick her out because she interprets the movie differently than I do. Sometimes I agree with her, most of the time I don't. All she was saying is that as far as romance goes, COTBP was structured completely different than DMC, which is true. If people are going to get mad at people for having differing opinions about A MOVIE then they just need to get over it.

I'm not mad at her, and I know people have different opinions, and I know the movie is not all about romance. I've said that several times as well.

Maybe since I've had bad experiences with her before, I'm biased.'

oh well.

Surreal can come here and post whatever the hell she wants. Except her slash fantasies (sorry). Even at times is really annoying *shrugs* she must think the same about me too. But I really don't care.

I like the challenge, its great excersise for the mind. Besides, all of us has different opinions.

Okay, so back to what I had posted since the subject of the thread is discussing the confusion the compass brings into the J/E relationship, any more thoughts? Anyone?

Well my first thought about the compass is: " To hell with it!"
It brings alot of confusion between ships and even TnT can't agree on their compass dispute. Also, I wanted to point something in both DMC and COTBP. In DMC it shows the music papers flying aways from the wind/rain. Notice on how there's a deleted scene when Jack rescues Liz, "the winds of change", and the music papers are also flying--in the delted scene. These takes place when theres a "change in the wind" when Jack shows up...and in DMC, after Liz's doomed wedding, Jack shows up. Fate intervenes anyone?

Any thoughts?

Music is an interesting point. Other than the singing and the great theme music, I didn't really pay attention to that.

Yeah me either. I noticed this when I was making my JE video and just noticed that theres a deleted scene where the music lyrics were flying away, like DMC. Maybe it means nothing, but it's kind of funny and I really don't want to overlook that.

Originally posted by Surreal_44
No, the reason Tia needs Jack is not connected to Jack stabbing the heart...at least not that I've heard. 😉

SPOILERS ABOUT NORRINGTON>>>>DO NOT READ IF YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

**Norrington's sword is linked to his death, but I don't believe he gets stabbed with it. **

However, why it remains until nearly the last scene in the film is a bit of a mystery to me, so I'm hoping it's a good thing. 😄

**As in, James is coming back. But I dunno for sure.**

I know, I know you all are so hopeful about J/E, and although it's mean of me to keep pointing it out, that script of CotBP where they clearly establish more of a love pyramid ( a bit of Norrington included in that!!!! ), they set it up so that Elizabeth chooses from the three men present, and er...it isn't Jack.

What is clear to me is that TnT wanted to establish a true love pyramid, and set up doubt in whom Elizabeth would choose. There isn't a hesitation on her part at all in that script.

And in DMC, the commentary there are a few lines that can't entirely be ignored are these (not the exact quotes, since I don't have the commentary written down 😛 ): "What doesn't get debated much is how much Elizabeth weighs Will life into her actions." and also, "We decided the only way for Elizabeth to kiss Jack and for it to remain true to the characters was to have Will's life be at stake".

I can't help it; I can't just let you all work yourself up to J/E stuff only to be disappointed when AWE comes out. Better to deal with the disappointment now rather than to have the movie ruined half-way through for you. 😄

that script is very old....and they didn't play that out....did they? and I know what you'll say...they didn't play out some of those scenes we've mentioned on here before..but that's okay...Besides, even if she chose Will back then..things have changed...as they do in every day life....I can tell you from experience....love changes...and sometimes you can think you're madly in love with someone...and then something or someone comes along and you discover that what you thought was love wasn't love at all....see what I'm saying....and besides Surreal....you can say whatever you want...I'll be j/e forever....and even if the makers of this movie or silly enough to pass on an opportune moment...I'll always have DMC to fantazise about...and besides...I'm still holding on to the fact that Disney is marketing Mickey and Minnie as Jack and Elizabeth....and they are being sold together in a combo pack...why is she with Jack..and not Will...why isn't she being marketed as Daisy along with Donald as Will...hummm?????

I think we are going to find in AWE...that her heart truly lies with Jack....