Fawkes the Phoenix (I checked for other threads like this)

I think that Fawkes the phoenix plays a big part in the harry potter books for a couple reasons.

1. In the fifth book Fawkes save DD from the A/K curse about to hit him. He either saved DD because he was called by DD to protect him or because he senced that DD was in trouble. If he showe up to help DD in the fifth book, why didin't he show up in the sixth book to protect DD. My theory is that Fawkes was ordered not to intervine and to let DD die. I don't believe that DD death was a hoax but i do think snape killed DD on DD's orders. What also supports this theory is that Fawkes left the school after DD's death, meaning that he wanted to be with him no matter what and would do anything for him.

i'm interested in knowing if any one else out ther ehas opinions on this or has there own theories about Fawkes.

my dear friend you are very intelegenlty shifting the discussion from Fawkes to DD's death, and there are thousands of threads (both closed and open) that deal with his death.

ck...ck....ck you are cheating.

Detention!

Originally posted by Unicor777
my dear friend you are very intelegenlty shifting the discussion from Fawkes to DD's death, and there are thousands of threads (both closed and open) that deal with his death.

ck...ck....ck you are cheating.

Detention!

but this is a thread thats also meant for other thigns about fawkes

like how it always fills Harry with comfort and pride and got him through the duel with voldemort.

or if you think he could help harry kill voldemort in the end

or about how he might have gone off to the afterlife with DD (even though phoenix's never die)

also the feather in harry's wand may have more to it than just the priori incantartum and may pay an important part in voldemorts downfall

its not only about DD's death it also about what powers fawkes may have or how he could help harry in the end.

now you are doing better and to post my opinion

I agree with you that Fawkes will play a bigger role in the last book, because if DD is really dead, the only one who even remotelly resembles Dumbledore would be Fawkes. They seemed to have a speciasl relation.

Somewhere around the end of the book 6, when DD's body burst in to flames, for a moment Harry thinks that he sees Fawkes shape in the blue fires, but then disapears.

As the release of the book is approaching it would be very interesting to compare this theories. My recent opinion on this subject, since I'm re-reading book 6, is that:

- Clever that Dumbledore is above all men, if he conjured Hroncux for him self, after defeting the dark Wizard Grindelwald , then that would be Fawkes. A living soul that dies and resurrects every 5 years. Perhaps that’s why Harry sees Fawkes in the blue flames.

Also it would be interesting if JK reveals more details about Dumbledore and Grindelwald. Was their relation, the amount of hatred between then similar to Harry Voldermort?

Did the death of Grindelwald, made Dumbledore so men-loving creature?

Did Fawkes played a role in that saga as well?

Since when is Fawkes in DD’s life?

Yep, if only JK would tell us more…. in a form of another book….

Fawkes represents Jesus, really.

Intersting as it may sound but I would enjoy if you would be so kind to elaborate your theory

Ehm, alright, It's not much of a theory, more good ol' common sense. Take it like this and remember that JK Rowling is heavily inspired by Inkling literature such as C.S Lewis' Chronichles of Narnia. It's like a morality play.

A Phoenix will burst into flames, apparently dying, only to be resurrected again, also known as the "Resurrecting Bird".

The example I can remember most clearly is the Chamber of Secrets (should really rebuild them in prep. for the final book).

A Brief synopsis, Dumbledore is God, Tom Riddle Satan and Harry is Man, bereft of his Innocence. The Chamber itself is earth, and Hogwarts (above) is Heaven.

Fawkes (Christ) is sent down from Heaven to protect man, as salvation for his sins, as Harry (Man) calls upon Dumbledore (God). Fawkes, after Harry defeats the Basilisk (Sin), weakened by the Phoenix (Christ). Fawkes then cries, and his suffering heals Harry (Man) of his sins.

There are other instances, but that ones probably the most explicit in it's allegory.

Interesting theory, well the 7 book will do it, if DD is really dead then, according to you god died, where as, if we follow the Bible Jesus was the one dying to save the menkind.
Anyway thanks for sharing this with us

Well, that's not really part of the theory, "God the Father" dying. I don't think Rowling would be unwise enough to write a book about the death of the Christian God, wouldn't go down very well with the fundamentalists who call Harry Potter the "path to the occult".

However, it does lend wait to your thought "when DD's body burst in to flames, for a moment Harry thinks that he sees Fawkes shape in the blue fires, but then disapears". I hadn't noticed that and am very glad you pointed it out. Time to re-read.

I think Fawkes is a very important symbol in the books, not explicitly, but then Rowling would never have got past the "watchful dragons" of the public by writing an explicit Christian tale.

Clever that Dumbledore is above all men, if he conjured Hroncux for him self, after defeting the dark Wizard Grindelwald , then that would be Fawkes.

Dumbledore creating a Horcrux, understandably, is hard to believe; I doubt Rowling would play with our perceptions of old Albus that way, but who is to say that there is not an opposite to the splinter of ones soul? That there is a direct opposite to a Horcrux, something Voldemort never understood.

(Bear with me, this is a little brainwave)

Who is to say that the bond Lily Potter formed with Harry, the protection of Love, is not a direct counterpart to the act of splintering a soul? Perhaps Dumbledore and Fawkes share this same bond.

If one gives ones life freely, instead of murdering or killing forcibly, perhaps, just perhaps, it gives the one strength to face whatever may come, strength different from eternal life. In Lily Potter's case, it would have been the Killing Curse that gave him the Scar. In Dumbledores, perhaps the strength to defeat Voldemort. But the fact, as you pointed out;

"for a moment Harry thinks that he sees Fawkes shape in the blue fires"

Dumbledore is sacrificing his life freely, like Fawkes.

It's all meandering conjecture at the moment, but there's definitely similar traits, if comparitive between the sacrifice Lily Potter made freely and the creation of a Horcrux.

i was just wondering If you think DD is dead what will his roll be in the 7th book?

I think He will give a certain amount of useful things to harry. such as:
Fawkes
His watch with 12 hands (no idea what it could be handy for)
More info about voldy (possibly/unlikely)
advanced spellbooks (perhaps on occlumency and a way to sense magical traces)
And last i thought the sword of gryffindor with the sorting hat ( maybe more info about parents too, specially lilly)

Now this may not directly relate to fawkes but it relates to Harry and DD which relates to fawkes. plus fawkes can apparate were humans can't.

(PAUSE)

and a theory
Harry is linked to fawkes through his wand (as is voldemort).
fawkes is linked to DD in a way i think of love. this means that DD is linked to harry and (i know it sounds odd) but watch what harry's been doing.
This is also why fawkes music fills Harry like it's inside him or a part of him. PG. 615 HBP "And Harry felt, as he had felt about the phoenix song before, that the music was inside not without: It was his own greif turned magically into song that echoed across the groundsand through the castle windows."
Fawkes seems to be able to sense many things to do with love or love lost. Or when DD or Harry are in trouble he comes to their aid. It sang when DD died and he helped lift the grief on their heads. So, to rap it all up because some maybe confused (i think i confused myself a bit) DD linked to harry through fawkes Which is how he is able to watch him, send him aid and sense whats troubling him...(from a distance).

There is definitely a link, but I would attribute that more to Dumbledore being an amazingly intuitive and shrewd character.

This comes to be very interesting, lets go on:

- PErhaps the blue flames with Fawkes shape was DDs partonus, sending message to the members of the Order.

- The 12 hand watch, as ndfreak pointed out , might be what Exanda here calls " oposite of Horcrux" something that has concealed parts of DD's powers. Because Dumbledore has powers that Harry would never posses

Rowling said Dumbledore ain't coming back.

It seems others will unveil another part of Dumbledore's plan. For example, Regellus Black may be involed, Aunt Petunia too (wouldn't Petunia and Reggie-boy be the same age?) and most likely Fawkes.

Fawkes seems like he was owned by Dumbledore, although Dumbledore would probably have considered him and equal, and we can also expect that Dumbledore didn't just pull Fawkes outta a hat. Dumbledore earned the birds trust.

Now Dumbledore is no more, what will Fawkes do? We know only of two people with a link to Fawkes now; Harry and Voldemort. It's intriguing, but Fawkes as symbolic of a hell of a lot in the series, and he won't be used flippantly. Some might suggest he is a Horcrux (of Voldemort's) but it seems doubtful, others that he is a relic of Godric Gryffindor, but then again, seems unlikely.

Last book will be an enjoyable read.

Originally posted by exanda kane
Rowling said Dumbledore ain't coming back.

It seems others will unveil another part of Dumbledore's plan. For example, Regellus Black may be involed, Aunt Petunia too (wouldn't Petunia and Reggie-boy be the same age?) and most likely Fawkes.

Fawkes seems like he was owned by Dumbledore, although Dumbledore would probably have considered him and equal, and we can also expect that Dumbledore didn't just pull Fawkes outta a hat. Dumbledore earned the birds trust.

Now Dumbledore is no more, what will Fawkes do? We know only of two people with a link to Fawkes now; Harry and Voldemort. It's intriguing, but Fawkes as symbolic of a hell of a lot in the series, and he won't be used flippantly. Some might suggest he is a Horcrux (of Voldemort's) but it seems doubtful, others that he is a relic of Godric Gryffindor, but then again, seems unlikely.

Last book will be an enjoyable read.

SAdly yes, she said that DD is not coming back, but as pathetic as might sound, there are still chances that he comes as a ghoust. I don't think that Harry's conversation with the Headless Nick, in the OOTP was for nothing, the dialog was meant for us. Perhaps we will see Dumbledore, he left a lot of unattended bussines behind and it is part of his job to see the downfail of VV, since he was the one bringing VV in to the wizarding world.

The relation between DD and Fawkes is crucial, one thing that makes me support the awful theory that DD arranged his death is the fact the Fawkes was not around when DD was in danger. He must have arranged that, because Fawkes has always been around DD everytime he had faced danger. And just because Harry showed loyality to DD in the CoS fawkes came on time to aid him. So where was fawkes? We know that in Hogwarts. Why was not near Dumbledore?...

Book 7 will be pelasure to read and I hope that it will answer more questions and it will raise... unless JK prepares the ground for another book, devoted to DD.

Originally posted by Unicor777
The relation between DD and Fawkes is crucial, one thing that makes me support the awful theory that DD arranged his death is the fact the Fawkes was not around when DD was in danger. He must have arranged that, because Fawkes has always been around DD everytime he had faced danger. And just because Harry showed loyality to DD in the CoS fawkes came on time to aid him. So where was fawkes? We know that in Hogwarts. Why was not near Dumbledore?...

This is why I think Dumbledore sacrificed himself. He gave his life freely, and good will spring from his death, even if it was not apparent at the end of The Half-Blood Prince. It was the same kind of sacrifice Lily Potter would have made to save her son. There lives were given freely, not taken with force, unlike the creation of a Horcrux. This leads me to believe that this sacrificial magic, which forms a bond of love, is a direct opposite to a Horcrux. I hope I'm wrong though, and it is something much more complex.

I find myself agreeing with Unicor777 that since fawkes didn't show up DD let himself die. Also i thought DD could do magic without a wand so he could've taken them out. but im not sure that DD left some sort orf love horcrux because he sacrificed himself. since lilly sacrificed herself for harry she wouldn't stay hidden she'd want to go and find harry. I think we would've already seen her in the books before if this were true. however i do think that their is a relationship with the amount of time HArry's faced Voldemort and the Number of people who died for him. He faced voldemort 5 times now and 4 people died protecting him (not including cedric). this is why 2 more main characters have to die. harry will end up facing voldemort 6 times so 2 more people need to die for him to finish them. dont ask me why but it jsut seems linked.

Originally posted by ndfreak
but im not sure that DD left some sort orf love horcrux because he sacrificed himself. since lilly sacrificed herself for harry she wouldn't stay hidden she'd want to go and find harry.

What?

Originally posted by exanda kane
This is why I think Dumbledore sacrificed himself. He gave his life freely, and good will spring from his death, even if it was not apparent at the end of The Half-Blood Prince. It was the same kind of sacrifice Lily Potter would have made to save her son. There lives were given freely, not taken with force, unlike the creation of a Horcrux. This leads me to believe that this sacrificial magic, which forms a bond of love, is a direct opposite to a Horcrux. I hope I'm wrong though, and it is something much more complex.

Dumbledore won all the battles in his life and this time even from his grave he will win again. Smart man that Dumbledore, no wonder we all like him so much 😉

Originally posted by ndfreak
Also i thought DD could do magic without a wand so he could've taken them out.

I’m more then sure that he was able to dispose of Malfoy very easy even without his wand, releasing Harry and putting a protection at the door in the tower so no one could enter. By provoking Draco in to a conversation he was giving time to someone…
Also when they were in the cave and when DD was drinking the “potion” that Harry was purring in to his throat DD was rambling something like: don’t hurt them, don’t hurt them, please, please, it’s my fault, hurt me instead… (Half Blood Prince / The Cave/ 7 paragraph / page 535.” Did he saw what is coming? Or did he knew what is a head but the potion drew all his worst fears at the surface?

Again I’m going to Fawkes, DD was able to summon Fawkes in the ministry of Magic in the OOTP to take the blow at the fountain. Why Fawkes didn’t come to the Cave? I really Hope the JK will do some explanation otherwise I will end up very disappointed, I mean DD’s death is the most significant event in the whole serial