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Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
It's not the animation that's the problem, it's the jobbing. I ahte thatit's always up to luffy to finish up the strongest bad guy by overpowering him to death. I could understand his fight against eneru, since luffy was immune to lightining because of his rubber body. But, the rest of is fights can be really anti-climatic. Like when he was fighting lucci, the way he beat him was terrible. And, the strawhats tend to job people, like when they help back [B]200 captain ranked marines despite being fatigued from the battle with cp9.

EDIT: Fight with blueno was great, BTW. [/B]

Lucci faster than Luffy in his normal stat, but he wasn't able to keep him down with just physical attacks because of Luffy's resistance to blunt force. But Luffy and Lucci was pretty even in power once both of them were in their transformed stat, and IMO, this was one of the most difficult fights Luffy's ever been through. Unlike the others, Luffy was always a bit stronger than his other opponents. Croc was the only one that was tuff to take down because of him being a Logia user, but once Luffy found out the weakness, took care of him much easier than Lucci.

I agree, the way Luffy beat Lucci wasn't the best finish compared to the rest of his battles, but it was one the best fight scenes to me IMO. The marines aren't really enough to take down the Strawhats, I mean like you said, they took down the CP9 members, that proves just how powerful the Strawhats has become.

Originally posted by dvampire
Lucci faster than Luffy in his normal stat, but he wasn't able to keep him down with just physical attacks because of Luffy's resistance to blunt force. But Luffy and Lucci was pretty even in power once both of them were in their transformed stat, and IMO, this was one of the most difficult fights Luffy's ever been through. Unlike the others, Luffy was always a bit stronger than his other opponents. Croc was the only one that was tuff to take down because of him being a Logia user, but once Luffy found out the weakness, took care of him much easier than Lucci.

The fight betweeen those two was great and I'm not arguing against that opinion at all. It was pretty obvious that luffy's gears were too much for lucci. This was obvious when luffy used "Third Gear" to punch lucci into the sea. If lucci had not landed on the deck of a "Bustercall Ship" then he would have fell into the sea below. He even stated that he was "losing consciousness" when he attempted to defend againt "Gomu Gomu No Gigantic Pistol" . But, "Third Gear" was too slow to use in the fight against luffy and that's why luffy had to use "Second Gear". During his fight with lucci's "Kamie Form" luffy was hit with two "Rokugan's" and was felled due to the power of lucci's "Rokushiki Ougi". I thought oda did this, so he could aloow ussop/Sogeking to help luffy in the battle since he got no action despite making such a dramatic scenes like: when he burned the World Governments flag and Saved Nico Robin. Unless you want to consider those two examples as "Action", Ussop/Sogeking didn't do jack really. But, instead oda makes him trun into a cheer leader and allows luffy to eat another "Rokugan" and over power lucci. That's a really anti-climatic finish IMO, ussop should have helped finish him off with luffy.

Originally posted by dvampire

I agree, the way Luffy beat Lucci wasn't the best finish compared to the rest of his battles, but it was one the best fight scenes to me IMO. The marines aren't really enough to take down the Strawhats, I mean like you said, they took down the CP9 members, that proves just how powerful the Strawhats has become.

But, the Strawhats were pretty much fatigued. Those fights were rough and for them to hold back 200 marines that are captain level without: Luffy and Sanji (He went to close the gate of justice).

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
The fight betweeen those two was great and I'm not arguing against that opinion at all. It was pretty obvious that luffy's gears were too much for lucci. This was obvious when luffy used "Third Gear" to punch lucci into the sea. If lucci had not landed on the deck of a "Bustercall Ship" then he would have fell into the sea below. He even stated that he was "losing consciousness" when he attempted to defend againt "Gomu Gomu No Gigantic Pistol" . But, "Third Gear" was too slow to use in the fight against luffy and that's why luffy had to use "Second Gear". During his fight with lucci's "Kamie Form" luffy was hit with two "Rokugan's" and was felled due to the power of lucci's "Rokushiki Ougi". I thought oda did this, so he could aloow ussop/Sogeking to help luffy in the battle since he got no action despite making such a dramatic scenes like: when he burned the World Governments flag and Saved Nico Robin. Unless you want to consider those two examples as "Action", Ussop/Sogeking didn't do jack really. But, instead oda makes him trun into a cheer leader and allows luffy to eat another "Rokugan" and over power lucci. That's a really anti-climatic finish IMO, ussop should have helped finish him off with luffy.

Luffy wouldn't except Ussops help in a fight, he's suppose to become the pirate king. He's never had help in any of his fights, and that's the way it should be. Luffy's Thrid gear was only a problem when Lucci was in a confined area, where Lucci didn't much room to dodge the attack, but when they were fighting on the marine ship, Lucci was able to avoid the attacks pretty easily. Other than that, Luffy gear2 weren't too much for Lucci, and was having a tuff time in putting him down, Luffy would have lost if he'd stayed in gear3.

[QUOTE]But, the Strawhats were pretty much fatigued. Those fights were rough and for them to hold back 200 marines that are captain level without: Luffy and Sanji (He went to close the gate of justice).

Those were just normal marines with guns, it was okay for them to beat them. Now if it was Marines on smoker level, then yeah, I'll have a problem with that.

Originally posted by dvampire
Luffy wouldn't except Ussops help in a fight, he's suppose to become the pirate king.

Originally posted by dvampire

He's never had help in any of his fights, and that's the way it should be.

I disagree, the fights are getting stale because of that repetitve formula.

Originally posted by dvampire

Those were just normal marines with guns, it was okay for them to beat them. Now if it was Marines on smoker level, then yeah, I'll have a problem with that.

They were actually, ussop commented on that. Infact, there were Devil fruit users amongst them.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Pirate king or not, that doesn't mean he has to over power all his enemies in a ridicules fashion.

He was never over powering Lucci, it took all he had to beat.

[QUOTE]I disagree, the fights are getting stale because of that repetitve formula.

If he gets help from someone, that would mean he doesn't deserve to be pirate king. It wouldn't look right either, everyone has beaten their opponent by themselves but Luffy, it'll just crush Luffy's whole goal.

They were actually, ussop commented on that. Infact, there were Devil fruit users amongst them.

I doubt that. From what they shown, it was only normal marines. You can't have that many DF users all in one space, since there's only a few of them in One Piece.

Originally posted by dvampire
He was never over powering Lucci, it took all he had to beat.

Originally posted by dvampire

If he gets help from someone, that would mean he doesn't deserve to be pirate king. It wouldn't look right either, everyone has beaten their opponent by themselves but Luffy, it'll just crush Luffy's whole goal.

Originally posted by dvampire

I doubt that. From what they shown, it was only normal marines. You can't have that many DF users all in one space, since there's only a few of them in One Piece.

Ahem, look at the Devil Fruit users as well.

Hmmm...I guess will have to agree to disagree then. Your links don't work btw.

Originally posted by dvampire
Hmmm...I guess will have to agree to disagree then. Your links don't work btw.

Maybe it's your comp, they wrok fine for me.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Maybe it's your comp, they wrok fine for me.

Now they work, they weren't at first. Your right there was DF users, but that doesn't mean they're all as powerful as Smoker, he hasn't went all out yet and is a Logia type.

Originally posted by dvampire
Now they work, they weren't at first. Your right there was DF users, but that doesn't mean they're all as powerful as Smoker, he hasn't went all out yet and is a Logia type.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
I'm aware of that, but the fact that they are all captain level like smoker, have devil fruit weilders amongst them, and are 200 in number fighting a fatigued miguwara group proves my point.

They had his level of ranking, but that doesn't mean they were as powerful as Smoker. There were DF users, but not all 200 of them had a DF power.

Originally posted by dvampire
They had his level of ranking, but that doesn't mean they were as powerful as Smoker. There were DF users, but not all 200 of them had a DF power.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Read what I said again, the strawhats were injured, tired, Luffy and sanji were not there, and somehow they helpd back [B]200 captain level marines with devil fruit weilders. [/B]

But if they were able to fight off the marines, that would mean that they weren't as weaken as you think. Zoro was still standing and completely fine, Franky, Nami, Robin, and Ussop, none of them were injured and they obviously wasn't too tired that they couldn't defend themselves. The only person that wasn't capable of fighting at all was Chopper and Luffy (after his fight with Lucci).

Originally posted by dvampire
But if they were able to fight off the marines, that would mean that they weren't as weaken as you think.

Yeah, basic petty officers who are nothing but canon fodder.

Originally posted by dvampire

Zoro was still standing and completely fine, Franky, Nami, Robin, and Ussop, none of them were injured and they obviously wasn't too tired

Originally posted by dvampire

that they couldn't defend themselves. The only person that wasn't capable of fighting at all was Chopper and Luffy (after his fight with Lucci).

Well the best thing you can do is let it go. It happened, and there's nothing anyone can do. The writter obviously was trying to show that the Strawhats have gotten stronger and that they can take on captain level pirates.

Originally posted by dvampire
Well the best thing you can do is let it go. It happened, and there's nothing anyone can do. The writter obviously was trying to show that the Strawhats have gotten stronger and that they can take on 200 captain level marines whilst being fatigued and having there best fighters I.E. luffy and sanji, missing.

Fixed it for you

One Piece has become like DragonBall Z

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Can anyone say Super Saiya-jin luffy?

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