Originally posted by Lightsnake
Bloody hell, how hard can those things be to dodge for someone capable of taking eight blaster shots at once? Kun has to raise his arm first and fire a beam that begins relatively small
Of course, you could have gained all that information from simply reading me and Gideon's posts...
He possesses a unique style with a weapon that was pretty rare in the PT times. How badly Bane did against Kas'im when he was using an unfamiliar form in comparison to how well he was doing before is testament to how great the advantage of an unfamiliar form is. I mean Bane basically went from dominating Kas'im in their duel, to getting his ass kicked, bad. Exar Kun's unique form and unorthodox weapon would be hell for Yoda to deal with.
Bane a man who had about a year at most of saber knowledge, which the novel particularly stated that he memorized forms =/= every star wars character, Banes case is not a " testament to how great the advantage of an unfamiliar form is" its a testament to how bad and unadaptable he really is with a saber.
Now compare that to someone like Yoda who has been around and trained for your know 700 more years then Bane who has seen probably countless different lightsaber form variations and who himself wields a unique form of Ataru with his shot saber, not only that he can contend and beat Vaapad a totally unique from so logic points to a "unique form" not being any consequence to someone like Yoda or really anyone who as used a saber for more then 2 years.
Look at Luke, EVERY form he faced was a unique form since he has had as it seems no official training to combat the different styles of saber combat and yet he didn't shit his pants like Bane did, as said Bane is a stand alone case he panicked and lost his control that led to his downfall. Its highly illogical to think that that would happen to every Star Wars character.
Exar Kun's strength was pretty insane as well, given that he was actually able to swing a weightless object and break Vodo's stick through pure impact alone (Vodo's stick was resistant to the cutting power of a lightsaber, as well as being stronger).
And its irrelevant compared to Yoda's own personal physical strength when he's using the force to augment it, it can be seen in the Clone Wars adventures comics when he lifts a gun that ways over a ton and walks around with it over his head.
His speed is constantly shown to be uber to the max, given that in virtually any fight he appears in, he moves in blurs. As fast as Yoda is, he does not move in blurs.
I've never seen him move as a blur in any of the comics, please post a picture to prove what you are talking about, and again thats rendered irrelevant as well since Yoda himself has been shown on multiple occasions to move as a blur, he even does it the CW comics The Best of Blades where all you see is his after image.
He was unmatched in an era with such people as Ulic Quel-Droma (who could hold off extremely powerful darkside driven jedi masters after being cut from the force and out of practise for a decade),
LOL.
Nomi Sunrider (who could wield the saber like a true master after instantly picking it up for the first time)
True.
and ancient obscure alien Jedi (such as Vodo).
How is that a measure of power? So was Yoda.
I'd rate all three that I mentioned above anybody Yoda faced (except maybe Vodo),
and Yoda still had trouble with most of those he faced, despite his huge age and experience advantages.
Considering the only foe he's had real "trouble" with happened to be the most powerful Sith Lord ever...
Yeah, I'd definitely give the fight to Exar in this scenario.
It'd be a long fight but it would go to Yoda.
Originally posted by Gideon
You'll notice that as soon as the lightning bolts encroach upon Yoda, he drops the cane and makes a legitimate attempt to deflect them - but is overpowered and knocked unconscious.
But when Sidious raised his hands to attack Yoda with Force Lightning, at that very moment Yoda made a fatal mistake for not getting ready. This could be because of his over-confidence or arrogance.
And when the Lightning bolt was launched towards Yoda, it came towards him at such a speed that he (even if he decided to block it at that moment) only managed to raise his hand to some extent but he never got the time to drop his cane or raise his hand to a certain level so that he could block the attack as you claim. And judging from his face expressions at that moment when the Lightning bolt was coming towards him, Yoda looks stunned. That Lightning bolt came at him in just 1 or 2 seconds and he was over-whelmed.
If Yoda had attempted to defend himself at the very moment when Sidious raised his hands, it could be possible for him to stop that attack but when Sidious raised his hands to attack and Yoda was just looking, it was too late.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
It is true that Yoda was over-confident and even Darth Sidious said this to Yoda before attacking him "Your arrogance blinds you! Master Yoda".But when Sidious raised his hands to attack Yoda with Force Lightning, at that very moment Yoda made a fatal mistake for not getting ready. This could be because of his over-confidence or arrogance.
And when the Lightning bolt was launched towards Yoda, it came towards him at such a speed that he (even if he decided to block it at that moment) only managed to raise his hand to some extent but he never got the time to drop his cane or raise his hand to a certain level so that he could block the attack as you claim. And judging from his face expressions at that moment when the Lightning bolt was coming towards him, Yoda looks stunned. That Lightning bolt came at him in just 1 or 2 seconds and he was over-whelmed.
If Yoda had attempted to defend himself at the very moment when Sidious raised his hands, it could be possible for him to stop that attack but when Sidious raised his hands to attack and Yoda was just looking, it was too late.
He wasn't arrogant or overconfident, Sidious simply took him off-guard. There's really nothing to it.
Originally posted by GideonYou'll notice that as soon as the lightning bolts encroach upon Yoda, he drops the cane and makes a legitimate attempt to deflect them - but is overpowered and knocked unconscious.
Are you sure thatwasn't more of a "WTF didn't see that coming" arm raise of surprise, then an effort at blocking? He looked kind of horrified when it hit him.
Originally posted by Riverollv
He wasn't arrogant or overconfident, Sidious simply took him off-guard. There's really nothing to it.
Yoda seemed to be over confident when he was talking with Sidious before the fight started. And Yoda's tone was indicating his arrogance. That's why Sidious said this to Yoda: "Your arrogance blinds you! Master Yoda".
And Gideon posted this line before: Yoda himself admits that even "older, more experienced Jedi" have fallen victim to their own arrogance and beliefs in their abilities.
And when Sidious raised his hands, Yoda being blinded at that moment due to his arrogance did not even thought that something is about to happen now and he should get ready but instead was just looking at Sidious as he raised his hands and attacked. This type of negligence seems idiotic in case of a Jedi as experienced as Yoda.
Yoda was indeed over-confident at the start at-least.
Originally posted by darthsith19
I presume that you have seen ROTS? If so, you will see that at one point Yoda, possibly due to overconfidence, was unable to block of dodge Sidious Force Lightning. If he were in a similar scenario with Kun and Kun used his amulet blasts, Yoda would lose, as the amulet blasts are much more potent than Force Lightning is.Of course, you could have gained all that information from simply reading me and Gideon's posts...
He was unable to block or dodge lightning from Kun's superior in suspicious circumstance? Sure, 'similar scenarion' being the key word...IE: Yoda walks to confront Kun in his office while
Oh, any proof these blasts would kill Yoda outright? Or would they temporarily knock him out while Exar stops to gloat and the fight commences as usual?
I'm sick of these amulets being any sort of deciding factor whatsoever. They don't start impressive at all and they've never once been tested against a force user of a Jedi master's caliber.
Kun has a poor chance against Yoda. A very poor chance
He was unable to block or dodge lightning from Kun's superior in suspicious circumstance? Sure, 'similar scenarion' being the key word...IE: Yoda walks to confront Kun in his office while
Oh, any proof these blasts would kill Yoda outright? Or would they temporarily knock him out while Exar stops to gloat and the fight commences as usual?
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Oh, any proof these blasts would kill Yoda outright? Or would they temporarily knock him out while Exar stops to gloat and the fight commences as usual?
I'm sick of these amulets being any sort of deciding factor whatsoever. They don't start impressive at all and they've never once been tested against a force user of a Jedi master's caliber.
Kun has a poor chance against Yoda. A very poor chance [/B]
No, Kun has a very good chance against Yoda. Kun knows techniques Yoda doesn't, and his amulet blasts should give him a huge advantage, even if it tires Yoda out for all that dodging. If he was smart he'd blast him or at least attempt to until Yoda became tired, then finish him off with a blade. In a saber duel it could go either way.
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
1. Wonderful, your argument deals with absence of proof. Unfortunately there's no proof that anybody CAN block an instantaneous beam of energy that grows with rage.
What's that ? Winding out of an argument for noobies ?
To use something as an argument you actually would have to proof that something would go like you want. Using force powers against force user who do possess defensive force abilities is always risky.
For some reason Exar doesn't even try to blast actual enemies with that amulet. Neither Vodo, nor Ulic - both enemies that actually might have been some threat to him. In fact he just uses force attacks on two people: Odan and Aleema and both tried to give him all they could right before he counterattacks them. Of course Odan dies yes (stupid imho but well) and Aleema is just knocked out for some minutes despite the fact that Kun did clearly intend to kill her with the blast of force energy he gave her.
So. Unless you want to tell me that Aleema had a compareable force defence to Yoda I guess Kun's fancy force attacks in the shape of "beams" will simply be shrugged off.
3. Him being able to dodge 3 masters doesn't imply that he's able to dodge instantaneous blasts.
He's fast enough to dodge and deflect blaster bolts which (omg) move with damn high speeds. And I don't see how that beams should be "instantaneous". Obviously we're talking about energy blasts that need to travel over the distance between the amulet and the target (Yoda). Not even talking about the fact that Kun would first need to aim with the amulet while being attacked by Yoda.
5. Another baseless assumption.
You mean a baseless assumption like "Kun will use his amulets against another force user" ?
6. No but once he sees Yoda's power, he'll get serious
And then he'll do what ?
7. I was wrong, apparently Nai misinterpreted information somewhere, so this shouldn't apply.
Apparently I did read something about "Force Light" in the POTJ Sourcebook and it says that the ability, which Yoda did possess, is capable of removing the Dark Side from a nexus point (objects, places, spirits even persons). And going by the possible effect on objects I guess that would apply on a Sith amulet crafted with Sith alchemy (yeah...DARK SIDE) as well.
Another question would be how the Jedi did manage to drive the Sith to extinction after the events shown in GAotS and FotSE comics. As you might recall the Sith Lords were all carrying those amulets around. Same with the Brotherhood of Darkness (at least Kaan whos amulet was crafted into one of Vader's gloves later). If there is no way to defend against them, every Sith should be able to take on a damn large amount of Jedi by just vaporizing them with his amulets. And again: Since something like that didn't happen they might be rather useless in combat vs force users for some reason.
If he just let out a short blast then it'd just knock Yoda out. But I see no reason why Kun would gloat, as he's never done so before (correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't remember him doing so). [/B]
I really doubt that under the circumstances, any Jedi will be anywhere near as arrogant as Kun
Originally posted by Borbarad
For some reason Exar doesn't even try to blast actual enemies with that amulet. Neither Vodo, nor Ulic - both enemies that actually might have been some threat to him. In fact he just uses force attacks on two people: Odan and Aleema and both tried to give him all they could right before he counterattacks them. Of course Odan dies yes (stupid imho but well) and Aleema is just knocked out for some minutes despite the fact that Kun did clearly intend to kill her with the blast of force energy he gave her.
So. Unless you want to tell me that Aleema had a compareable force defence to Yoda I guess Kun's fancy force attacks in the shape of "beams" will simply be shrugged off.
He's fast enough to dodge and deflect blaster bolts which (omg) move with damn high speeds. And I don't see how that beams should be "instantaneous". Obviously we're talking about energy blasts that need to travel over the distance between the amulet and the target (Yoda). Not even talking about the fact that Kun would first need to aim with the amulet while being attacked by Yoda.
You mean a baseless assumption like "Kun will use his amulets against another force user" ?
Apparently I did read something about "Force Light" in the POTJ Sourcebook and it says that the ability, which Yoda did possess, is capable of removing the Dark Side from a nexus point (objects, places, spirits even persons). And going by the possible effect on objects I guess that would apply on a Sith amulet crafted with Sith alchemy (yeah...DARK SIDE) as well.
Another question would be how the Jedi did manage to drive the Sith to extinction after the events shown in GAotS and FotSE comics. As you might recall the Sith Lords were all carrying those amulets around. Same with the Brotherhood of Darkness (at least Kaan whos amulet was crafted into one of Vader's gloves later). If there is no way to defend against them, every Sith should be able to take on a damn large amount of Jedi by just vaporizing them with his amulets. And again: Since something like that didn't happen they might be rather useless in combat vs force users for some reason. [/B]
I would also like to add that the amulets blasts were described as "darkside force energy." PoD narrated pretty clearly that a manifestation of the force as energy could be shielded against provided the force user was strong enough.
Furthermore, the blasts were stated by DSSB to damage the user. So if Kun were to fire these blasts like a mad bomber, he'd be hurting himself as well.
This match would be pretty good, but I'm not in the mood to argue for either of these characters. (they never interested me that much)
Exar Kun's strength was pretty insane as well, given that he was actually able to swing a weightless object and break Vodo's stick through pure impact alone (Vodo's stick was resistant to the cutting power of a lightsaber, as well as being stronger).
What a kind of arg is this? To break a stick shows kun's "insane strength"?
He was unmatched in an era with such people as Ulic Quel-Droma
Actually, tha narrator stated that exar and ullic were even in lightsaber skills when they started fighting...
This is tough, but i stay with yoda.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Are you serious?Yoda seemed to be over confident when he was talking with Sidious before the fight started. And Yoda's tone was indicating his arrogance. That's why Sidious said this to Yoda: [b]"Your arrogance blinds you! Master Yoda"
.And Gideon posted this line before: Yoda himself admits that even "older, more experienced Jedi" have fallen victim to their own arrogance and beliefs in their abilities.
And when Sidious raised his hands, Yoda being blinded at that moment due to his arrogance did not even thought that something is about to happen now and he should get ready but instead was just looking at Sidious as he raised his hands and attacked. This type of negligence seems idiotic in case of a Jedi as experienced as Yoda.
Yoda was indeed over-confident at the start at-least. [/B]
Exactly, he didnt even thought about it. Maybe youre right, he was arrogant, but i dont think overconfident. He knew Sidious was very very powerful. Though, Sidious fears Yoda, and he's right to be afraid