Mace kills Dooku...and without too much difficulty. It's not a walk in the park, but mace wont be too hard pressed. Unless of course Dooku gets scared...again. And calls in MagnaGaurds...again. And runs with his tail between his legs while admitting that he would have lost...again.
Yea, Mace wins...by beating the crap of his old friend.
Originally posted by Man of Christ
mace wtf pwns dooku.
dooku's darksidedness will play right into a vapaad inventor's hands.
I wasn't aware that this automatically ensured Mace a victory, as you are so obviously trying to imply. Dooku's mastery of the dark side would have played right into "Vaapads [other] inventors hands", Sora Bulq - but do you remember the outcome? Because of your foolish and utterly stupid viewpoint I would assume not, so ill take the liberty to show you:
Mr Bulq, a fellow Vaapad practicioner, is annhilated by the Count - clearly proving that the form alone does not ensure a victory.
besides dooku is below siddious and mace wtf pwned siddious so dooku gets trampled on.
Are you sure we watched the same movie? Because I seem to remember the Sidious and Mace battle to go somewhat differently to your description. A bit more like this:
Also you are using an A>B>C argument, which shows you are desperate. They simply do not work. Dooku>Obi-Wan>Anakin>Dooku>Obi-Wan etc etc.
dooku's arthritis ridden makashi cannot properly defend against the ferocity of mace's vaapad.
See above post with Sora Bulq. Yes, Vaapad is a much more physical form than Makashi -- but so are all the forms. Makashi doesn't rely on brute strength to win a fight like Djem So, or to a lesser degree Vaapad, yet it is still considered the ultimate refinement in lightsaber-to-lightsaber combat. Let me translate that for you because im sure you will get confused and try and twist it. Makashi is the best form when it comes to sword fights. End of story.
And because I am not amused by your "arthritis ridden Makashi" remark, i'd like to post this:
"Physically, the Count's age was rarely a handicap. Deft as he had become with the Force-unimaginably more subtle than the boy who had watched water-skeeters in the Jedi gardens all those years ago-he wore his eighty-three standard years better than most humans half his age. He was still in superb physical shape, senses keen, health undiminished by even the memory of a cold."
Also as a side note, so I can further dispel your little "Mace wtf pwns Dooku" theory, Yoda himself says this: "The best of all would be the strongest student, yes? Wisest? Most learned in the ways of the Force? Best of all, Dooku would be! Our greatest student! Our greatest failure.". If Mace was equal or even better than Dooku why would Yoda say such a thing?
Peace. 😛
Originally posted by Rampant oxI wasn't aware that this automatically ensured Mace a victory, as you are so obviously trying to imply. Dooku's mastery of the dark side would have played right into "Vaapads [other] inventors hands", Sora Bulq - but do you remember the outcome? Because of your foolish and utterly stupid viewpoint I would assume not, so ill take the liberty to show you:
Mr Bulq, a fellow Vaapad practicioner, is annhilated by the Count - clearly proving that the form alone does not ensure a victory.
Are you sure we watched the same movie? Because I seem to remember the Sidious and Mace battle to go somewhat differently to your description. A bit more like this:
Also you are using an A>B>C argument, which shows you are desperate. They simply do not work. Dooku>Obi-Wan>Anakin>Dooku>Obi-Wan etc etc.
See above post with Sora Bulq. Yes, Vaapad is a much more physical form than Makashi -- but so are all the forms. Makashi doesn't rely on brute strength to win a fight like Djem So, or to a lesser degree Vaapad, yet it is still considered the ultimate refinement in lightsaber-to-lightsaber combat. Let me translate that for you because im sure you will get confused and try and twist it. Makashi is the [b]best
form when it comes to sword fights. End of story.And because I am not amused by your "arthritis ridden Makashi" remark, i'd like to post this:
"Physically, the Count's age was rarely a handicap. Deft as he had become with the Force-unimaginably more subtle than the boy who had watched water-skeeters in the Jedi gardens all those years ago-he wore his eighty-three standard years better than most humans half his age. He was still in superb physical shape, senses keen, health undiminished by even the memory of a cold."Also as a side note, so I can further dispel your little "Mace wtf pwns Dooku" theory, Yoda himself says this: "The best of all would be the strongest student, yes? Wisest? Most learned in the ways of the Force? Best of all, Dooku would be! Our greatest student! Our greatest failure.". If Mace was equal or even better than Dooku why would Yoda say such a thing?
Peace. 😛 [/B]
1) I took the liberty to point out that mace invented vaapad and mastered it better than any other jedi, hence he didnt fall to the dark side.
2) you cannot even use that picture of mace being shocked as evidence because anakin sneak attacked him, if mace was still alone with siidous, siddous wouldve died. dooku lost and tooke the punk way out. so get out of here with that crap.
3) that qoute is a hyperbole which is a litterary device, beacuse if it were ture then yoda doesnt condider anakin strong enough to win either but we saw anakin pwn dooku.
4) dude. dooku is old and frail, and against a mace immersed in vaapad, dooku stands no chance. if he got punished by an "in the zone" anakin. just imagine what an agressive master like mace who NOT ONLY INVENTED BUT MASTERED HIS FORM. would do to dooku.
Oh joy, a riveting and highly educated response awaits me. 🙄
Originally posted by Man of Christ 1) I took the liberty to point out that mace invented vaapad and mastered it better than any other jedi, hence he didn't fall to the dark side.
And? I fail to see what point you are trying to make, but it does show me that you excel in spewing unrelated and unnecessary nonsense. Yes, Mace has mastered Vaapad to a higher degree than anyone else. Likewise, Dooku has mastered Makashi, the ultimate refinement in lightsaber-to-lightsaber combat to its highest degree.
2) you cannot even use that picture of mace being shocked as evidence because anakin sneak attacked him, if mace was still alone with siidous, siddous wouldve died.
Speculation. Sidious may have died, but because events didn't pan out that why we will never know. I personally think that our favourite Chancellor was holding back, reinforced by his little "Unlimited power!!!" comment. Either way, it is irrelevant to the fight at hand.
dooku lost and tooke the punk way out. so get out of here with that crap.
And? Again I don't see what point you are trying to get across. Even though Dooku "took the punk way out" as you so crudely put it, it again has no bearing on the fight at hand. So please, stop posting unrelated crap and form an argument.
3) that qoute is a hyperbole which is a litterary device, beacuse if it were ture then yoda doesnt condider anakin strong enough to win either but we saw anakin pwn dooku.
I doubt that Yoda did consider Anakin strong enough to beat Tyranus. But the quote also mentions other traits, such as force mastery and wisdom - two things that Dooku clearly has over Skywalker. Anyway, Anakin is irrelevant. We are comparing Mace and Dooku, and Yoda straight up states that Dooku is the Order's greatest student -- not Mace.
4) dude. dooku is old and frail, and against a mace immersed in vaapad, dooku stands no chance.
Dude, did you even bother to read my quote? Ill post it again just because I can. Note the points which are in bold directly contradict your idiotic assumption:
[i]"Physically, the Count's age was rarely a handicap. Deft as he had become with the Force-unimaginably more subtle than the boy who had watched water-skeeters in the Jedi gardens all those years ago-he wore his eighty-three standard years better than most humans half his age. He was still in superb physical shape, senses keen, health undiminished by even the memory of a cold."
if he got punished by an "in the zone" anakin. just imagine what an agressive master like mace who NOT ONLY INVENTED BUT MASTERED HIS FORM. would do to dooku. [/B]
Oh lord, you are wrong on so many levels. Let me explain.
- Anakin while he is in the state of mind while challenging Dooku is arguably the most powerful being in the galaxy. He would be right up there with the likes of Sidious and Yoda. So yes, Dooku did lose to him. It does not however shows Dooku's force and saber mastery in a bad light, instead, it was done to show how strong Skywalker really is. In fact, if Mace was in Dooku's place I would hardly be suprised if he met the same fate. In fact, I would put money on it.
- Why do you keep bringing up the fact Mace mastered his form? So did Dooku. Point moot.
Come back when you have an argument. And no, spewing out unrelated crap is not an argument.
Originally posted by Rampant ox
Oh joy, a riveting and highly educated response awaits me. 🙄And? I fail to see what point you are trying to make, but it does show me that you excel in spewing unrelated and unnecessary nonsense. Yes, Mace has mastered Vaapad to a higher degree than anyone else. Likewise, Dooku has mastered Makashi, the ultimate refinement in lightsaber-to-lightsaber combat to its highest degree.
Speculation. Sidious may have died, but because events didn't pan out that why we will never know. I personally think that our favourite Chancellor was holding back, reinforced by his little "Unlimited power!!!" comment. Either way, it is irrelevant to the fight at hand.
And? Again I don't see what point you are trying to get across. Even though Dooku "took the punk way out" as you so crudely put it, it again has no bearing on the fight at hand. So please, stop posting unrelated crap and form an argument.
I doubt that Yoda did consider Anakin strong enough to beat Tyranus. But the quote also mentions other traits, such as force mastery and wisdom - two things that Dooku clearly has over Skywalker. Anyway, Anakin is irrelevant. We are comparing Mace and Dooku, and Yoda straight up states that Dooku is the Order's greatest student -- not Mace.
Dude, did you even bother to read my quote? Ill post it again just because I can. Note the points which are in bold directly contradict your idiotic assumption:
. Deft as he had become with the Force-unimaginably more subtle than the boy who had watched water-skeeters in the Jedi gardens all those years ago-he wore his eighty-three standard years better than most humans half his age. He was still in superb physical shape, senses keen, health undiminished by even the memory of a cold."
[i]"Physically, the Count's age was [b]rarely a handicapOh lord, you are wrong on so many levels. Let me explain.
- Anakin while he is in the state of mind while challenging Dooku is arguably the most powerful being in the galaxy. He would be right up there with the likes of Sidious and Yoda. So yes, Dooku did lose to him. It does not however shows Dooku's force and saber mastery in a bad light, instead, it was done to show how strong Skywalker really is. In fact, if Mace was in Dooku's place I would hardly be suprised if he met the same fate. In fact, I would put money on it.
- Why do you keep bringing up the fact Mace mastered his form? So did Dooku. Point moot.Come back when you have an argument. And no, spewing out unrelated crap is not an argument. [/B]
*) Lay off the insults. They show your immaturitey.
1)Mace mastered vaapad so wouldnt meet the same fate as bulq who didnt master it anywhere near mace's level.
2) If you recal, mace's power and ussage of vaapad is why siddious is deformed as he is now. mace owned him, end of story. if anakin hadnt intervened siddious wouldve died. thats why he was on the ground crying for anakin's help.
3) Unlimited power is another hyperbole, he didnt litteraly have unlimeted power, he's mortal you get exhausted sometime.
4) Again yoda is not the ultimate authority at all. just cause he says something doesnt make it so. if dooku truly were the order's greatest student he wouldnt have fallen. a perfect quote to point out yoda's fallacy
when confronting palpatine "at an end your rule is. and not short enough it was." which became "into exile i must go. failed i have" so just cause yoda says it, doesnt make it right.
5) All that physical physique didnt stop a young spry anakin who was only 1/4 his age from piling through his pathetic makashi, and djem so doesnt even specialize against the dark side like vaapad used by the inventor and 2 in command of the jedi order (mace) would.
6)Vaapad was also invented for saber combat but saber combat against sith so. dooku, your number is up.
Force shock-mace reflects it and dooku ends up like siddious, a walking raisin
force throw object- mace throws it back( watch clone wars to get an idea of mace's force adeptness)
saber duel-no more dooku
dooku<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<mace
mace>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>dooku
Jesus F. Christ; I assumed that this speculative battle was eons behind us.
Oh joy, a riveting and highly educated response awaits me. 🙄
Remarkable foresight, Master Jedi. Perhaps you'd like to do the rest of us the honor of making a similar effort? 😉
Speculation. Sidious may have died, but because events didn't pan out that why we will never know. I personally think that our favourite Chancellor was holding back, reinforced by his little "Unlimited power!!!" comment. Either way, it is irrelevant to the fight at hand.
Two G-canon sources, the script and the novelization -- and Lucas himself ("...the scene always ended with Mace overpowering Palpatine"😉 would disagree with you. The point is moot.
Mr Bulq, a fellow Vaapad practicioner, is annhilated by the Count - clearly proving that the form alone does not ensure a victory.
"Vaapad is more than just a form. It is a state of mind." -- the RotS novelization. Sora Bulq clearly went off the deep end during the Clone Wars. Likewise, on the subject of Sora Bulq, Mace Windu had this to say: "Vaapad mastered him."
Comparing the two is foolish. Mace is leagues superior.
I doubt that Yoda did consider Anakin strong enough to beat Tyranus. But the quote also mentions other traits, such as force mastery and wisdom - two things that Dooku clearly has over Skywalker. Anyway, Anakin is irrelevant. We are comparing Mace and Dooku, and Yoda straight up states that Dooku is the Order's greatest student -- not Mace.
Your logic is ridiculous:
a.) Yoda's criterion was "wisest" and "most learned in the ways of the Force". No one's arguing that Mace is superior to Tyranus in Force knowledge or wisdom.
b.) Yoda also goes onto say that Dooku was the Temple's "greatest failure" -- are we to take that literally as well?
c.) You're comparing Jedi Dooku to Sith Dooku. It's moot. Vaapad creates a superconductive loop for dark side energy only, so it clearly wouldn't apply to a Jedi, would it?
d.) Even if Dooku is "stronger" than Mace, that doesn't make a difference. G-canon shows Mace Windu defeating the more powerful Palpatine; it doesn't nullify Sidious's defeat simply because the Sith Lord was technically more powerful. That's the whole point of Vaapad, it nullifies dark side advantages.
In conclusion: Mace. Wins.
Originally posted by Gideon
[B]Jesus F. Christ; I assumed that this speculative battle was eons behind us.
Oh, beleive me I thought the exact same thing. But the "Dooku gets pwned by Mace" remark stirred me out of my fanboy retirement. I mean, I cant have the legendary Dooku name tarnished by such words. 😛
Two G-canon sources, the script and the novelization -- and Lucas himself ("...the scene always ended with Mace overpowering Palpatine"😉 would disagree with you. The point is moot.
Yes, but one can still be overpowered if they are not fighting to their potential. I am a beleiver that Sidious did not go all out, allowing himself to be "overpowered" in order lure Anakin to the dark side. Either way it is irrelevant to the fight, as I said before.
"Vaapad is more than just a form. It is a state of mind." -- the RotS novelization. Sora Bulq clearly went off the deep end during the Clone Wars. Likewise, on the subject of Sora Bulq, Mace Windu had this to say: "Vaapad mastered him."Comparing the two is foolish. Mace is leagues superior.
No sh*t Sherlock. The guy implied that because Mace knew Vaapad he was going to win. I proved that knowing Vaapad does not ensure a victory of a Sith Lord. I was in no way insinuating that Bulq was anywhere near Mace. Jeez Gideon, how stupid do you think I am? 😉
a.) Yoda's criterion was "wisest" and "most learned in the ways of the Force". No one's arguing that Mace is superior to Tyranus in Force knowledge or wisdom.
Not directly, but by sayiong something ridiculous like "Mace pwns Dooku", Windu's force prowess and wisdom are somewhat implied to be superior as well y'know. Its a bit hard to 'pwn' someone on blade work alone.
b.) Yoda also goes onto say that Dooku was the Temple's "greatest failure" -- are we to take that literally as well?
I dont see why not. Dooku was one of the greatest Jedi alive, yet he was one of a select few who voluntarily left the Order and then went on to become a Sith Lord and had a direct hand in plunging the Galaxy into an intergalactic war killing billions. The polar opposite of a Jedi Knight and everything they encompass. Another words the Jedi Order failed him.
In conclusion: Mace. Wins.
Possibly. I don'y particularly give a toss either way. Nor do I remember outright saying that Dooku would win. The argument started on the comment "Mace pwns Dooku", which you and I both know is simply not true.
Originally posted by fascistcrusader
The odds are definitely in Mace's favor, but I think Dooku has more of a chance than most people here are saying. Sure, we have mace beating Sidious, eho is stronger than Dooku, but we also have Mace not being able to beat Grevious, while Dooku fights Grevious like he is nothing.
Last time I checked, Mace did beat Grievous. And rather quickly.
Originally posted by fascistcrusader
In Labyrinth of Evil Grevious started using a style similar to Vaapad, and Mace simply couldn't beat him.
Without pausing, Grievous drew two lightsabers from inside his
billowing cloak. By the time they were ignited, Mace was already on and all
over the cyborg, batting away at the two blades, swinging low at
Grievous's artificial legs, thrusting at his skeletal face. The
lightsabers thrummed and hissed, meeting one another in bursts of dazzling
light. In a corner of Mace's mind he wondered to which Jedi Grievous's
blades had belonged. Just as the Force was keeping Mace from being blown
from the mag-lev's roof, magnetism of some sort was keeping the
general fastened in place. For the cyborg, though, the coherence
hindered as much as it helped, whereas Mace never remained in one place
for very long. Again and again the three blades joined, in
snarling attacks and parries. As Mace already knew from Ki-Adi-Mundi and
Shaak Ti, Grievous was well trained in the Jedi arts. He could
recognize the hand of Dooku in the general's training and
technique. His strikes were as forceful as any Mace had ever had to
counter, and his speed was astonishing. But he didn't know Vaapad - -
the technique of dark flirtation in which Mace excelled. To the rear
of the car, where Grievous's pair of MagnaGuards had made the mistake of
pitting themselves against Kit Fisto, the Nautolan's blade was a
cyclone of blazing blue light. Resistant to the energy outpourings of a
lightsaber, the phrik alloy staffs were potent weapons, but like any
weapon they needed to find their target, and Kit simply wasn't
allowing that. In moves a Twi'lek dancer might envy, he spun around
the guards, claiming a limb from both with each rotation: left legs,
right arms, right legs... The speed of the train saw to the rest,
ultimately whisking the droids into the canyon like insects blown from the
windscreen of
a speeder bike. The loss of his confederates was noted
by whatever computers were slaved to Grievous's organic
brain, but the loss neither distracted nor slowed him. His sole
setting was attack. Successful at analyzing Mace's lightsaber style,
those same computers suggested that Grievous alter his stance and
posture, along with the angle of his parries, ripostes, and thrusts.
The result wasn't Vaapad, but it was close enough, and Mace
wasn't interested in prolonging the contest any longer than necessary.
Crouching low, he angled the blade downward and slashed, guiding it through
the roof of the car, perpendicular to Grievous's stalwart advance.
Mace saw by the surprised look in the cyborg's reptilian eyes that, for
all his strength, dexterity, and resolve, the living part of him wasn't
always in perfect sync with his alloy servos. Clearly, Grievous
- - onetime courageous
commander of sentient troops - - realized what
Mace had done and wanted to sidestep, where General Grievous - - current
commander of droids and other war machines - - wanted
nothing more than to impale Mace with lunging thrusts of the paired
blades. Slipping into the gap made by Mace's saber, Grievous's left
talon lost magnetic purchase on the roof, and the general faltered. Mace
came out of his crouch prepared to drive his sword into Grievous's
guts, but some last-instant firing of the general's cybersynapses
compelled the cyborg's torso through a swift half twist that would
have sent Mace's head hurtling into the canyon had the maneuver
prevailed. Instead Mace leapt backward, out of the range of the
slicing blades, and Force-pushed outward, just at the instant of
Grievous's single misstep. Off the side of the car the general went,
twisting and turning as he
fell, Mace trying to track the general's contorted plunge, but unsuccessfully. Had he fallen into the canyon? Had he managed to dig his duranium claws into the side of the car or grab hold of the mag-lev rail itself? Mace couldn't take the time to puzzle it out. One hundred meters away, the gunboat retracted its landing gear and rose from the roof on repulsorlift power. Reckless shots from one of the pursuing gunships obliged the Separatist craft to skew, then dive, with the gunship following close behind. Mace and Kit watched in awe as the two ships began to helix forward around the speeding mag-lev, exchanging constant fire. Climbing away from the train's sharp nose, within which the magnetic controls were housed, the gunboat made as if to bank west, only to bank east at the last instant. By then, however, the gunship - - leading its target west - - had already fired. Drilled by a swarm of deadly hyphens, the mag-lev's control system blew apart, and the entire train began to drop.
And Rampant Ox, quit defending Dooku just cause you like him. Guess who my favorite Star Wars character is. Darth Maul. Could he beat Mace Windu? Nope.