Bastila vs vader

Started by allfg2 pages
Originally posted by Captain REX
You can't nominate who you argue against. If you're wrong and everyone wants to argue against you, then that's how it is. Sorry.

Whether I'm wrong or not (I'm not), there's no way I'm making the same reply three different times to three different people. It's not worth my time.

Meanwhile, Vader takes this. Anakin/Vader wasn't a lightsaber prodigy, eh? Let's just forget that he was a better duelist than most of the Order by the time he was in his early 20's...and let's forget that he was the Chosen One and had tons of raw power, too. Which he honed. Yup...

You can believe what you want, but his rise in power is quite clearly due to his strength in the force, and not due to being a prodigy. Now the fact is, despite his strength in the force being the highest ever, he still didn't grow very powerful very quickly. Off the top of my head, both Bane and Exar Kun grew far more powerful far quicker than Anakin did, despite his greater force connection. There's not really anything supporting him being a prodigy. I've read the Jedi Quest books and it takes him just as long as the other padawans to grasp their lessons, it's just that once he's learned them, he naturally excels, due to his tremendous force strength. You're confusing strength in the force with prodigy.

Bastila was a prodigy, yes, but I don't think she was all that amazing. Her training with Malak was minimal at best, I should think;

Despite her knowing techniques such as force drain and force lightning?

any powers she uses while on the Dark Side is merely gameplay mechanics.

Both powers aren't dependant on gameplay, meaning it doesn't vary from player to player and thus canon.

And the Mind Tricking of Toydarians and Hutts is, again, just crappy gameplay mechanics.

I swear it was a cutscene, I'm almost 100% sure. You can never control Bastilla during dialogue, so I'm pretty sure you're wrong here.

TPM and ROTJ established those races as having a natural immunity to Mind Tricks.

Fallible third parties...

The Wizards Star Wars RPG gives them this,

Retcon?

and samples of the species say so themselves.

Again, these people are all fallible. How would they know for sure that they were immune? Perhaps it had been tested by force users before, and not worked, and thus that's how they arrived at their conclusion. Doesn't mean that they would know for sure that a force user with an extremely high will could pull it off.

This will be closed unless a reasonable argument for Bastila's victory can be posted.

Arguments have already been put forward. When has Vader ever overpowered powerful force users like Bastilla did when she instantly stunned both Jolee and Juhani? When has Vader ever tooled other powerful lightsaber users like Bastilla did when she was a mere padawan? Just because Vader's a movies character, and has more exposure and a larger fanbase, it doesn't mean he automatically beats just any smalltime video game character.

Originally posted by Kadesh
Nebaris francine, Did you not just use stats? Wow so lemme see i guess i should use it too, And according to those rpg books, Vader > NJO luke, ragnos > njo luke due to stats But are they canonically stronger than luke? Hell no

Numbskull hypocrite

There's a difference between comparing stats from differnt mediums and comparing stats within the same medium.

BTW Kadesh, you really shouldn't have got caught like that.

Owned.

Originally posted by allfg

Despite her knowing techniques such as force drain and force lightning?

Despite that drain was in gameplay and not in a cut scene?

Originally posted by allfg

Both powers aren't dependant on gameplay, meaning it doesn't vary from player to player and thus canon.
See the above

Originally posted by allfg

I swear it was a cutscene, I'm almost 100% sure. You can never control Bastilla during dialogue, so I'm pretty sure you're wrong here.

irrelevant, see the above

Originally posted by allfg

Fallible third parties...

No no no! Movies are higher canon. So now we go by what the movie says as stated by the almighty lord of the sock nebaris who stated this many times

Originally posted by allfg

Arguments have already been put forward. When has Vader ever overpowered powerful force users like Bastilla did when she instantly stunned both Jolee and Juhani? When has Vader ever tooled other powerful lightsaber users like Bastilla did when she was a mere padawan? Just because Vader's a movies character, and has more exposure and a larger fanbase, it doesn't mean he automatically beats just any smalltime video game character.

Lets see.. he tooled roan shryne who is uber because he survived the war(Your logic) He sliced and diced sia lan wezz before her dead body hit the floor. He took down 4 masters who also survived the war with relative ease and he smashed mauls DB saber apart.

As for the force, he ripped out a tree to smash the dark woman, Used an entire waterfall to drown her, Levitated in the air. And according to wookie and the movies, he sends objects flying at his opponent in a Never ending barrage. OH how bout that he redirected the rifle shots fired at him?
And vaders apprentice in the force unleashed whom is weaker than he is sent an entire platoon of storm troopers flying in the air with force wave

http://nebaris.wasarrested.com/?loc=London&gen=m&story=16
Bad boy

Time for a lawl party!

Whether I'm wrong or not (I'm not), there's no way I'm making the same reply three different times to three different people. It's not worth my time.

Somehow, I don't think anyone cares...

You can believe what you want, but his rise in power is quite clearly due to his strength in the force, and not due to being a prodigy. Now the fact is, despite his strength in the force being the highest ever, he still didn't grow very powerful very quickly. Off the top of my head, both Bane and Exar Kun grew far more powerful far quicker than Anakin did, despite his greater force connection. There's not really anything supporting him being a prodigy. I've read the Jedi Quest books and it takes him just as long as the other padawans to grasp their lessons, it's just that once he's learned them, he naturally excels, due to his tremendous force strength. You're confusing strength in the force with prodigy.

I still don't see how that shows Bastila being a prodigy...and that means you're saying that Bastila is not strong in the Force, then?


Despite her knowing techniques such as force drain and force lightning?

Both powers aren't dependant on gameplay, meaning it doesn't vary from player to player and thus canon.

Well, then it's a moment of EU overpowering. Dark Jedi were flinging lightning at me on Manaan, woohoo!


I swear it was a cutscene, I'm almost 100% sure. You can never control Bastilla during dialogue, so I'm pretty sure you're wrong here.

Characters always cut in when they have something to say or something to contribute to the conversation. Bastila using Mind Tricks was, apparently, what she wanted to contribute.


Fallible third parties...

I think I just popped a brain cell.


Retcon?

Why would it be retcon? Retcon is to connect things that don't match up any more. The immunity to Mind Tricks rule has been there for the Hutts since Wizards took interest in Star Wars...


Again, these people are all fallible. How would they know for sure that they were immune? Perhaps it had been tested by force users before, and not worked, and thus that's how they arrived at their conclusion. Doesn't mean that they would know for sure that a force user with an extremely high will could pull it off.

I wish to note that KOTOR is the only time that those species have been Tricked, and it depends entirely on gameplay mechanics...


Arguments have already been put forward. When has Vader ever overpowered powerful force users like Bastilla did when she instantly stunned both Jolee and Juhani? When has Vader ever tooled other powerful lightsaber users like Bastilla did when she was a mere padawan? Just because Vader's a movies character, and has more exposure and a larger fanbase, it doesn't mean he automatically beats just any smalltime video game character.

Stun didn't exist until KOTOR, yay! In any case, Bastila is a Padawan; she didn't defeat Revan, though she beat him back, but Anakin did that with Dooku for a moment in AOTC until Dooku went 'I'm bored, BOOM.'

I'm closing this. It's going nowhere.