Originally posted by LORDSIDIOUS01
ANH Ben's skills greatly diminished between ROTS and ANH. In that 30year span, I do think that his skills aren't what they used to be. Therefore if he were to fight TPH Obi-Wan, this is not a fair fight. TPM Obi is far more superior and much stronger in the force. "Old" Ben goes down.
Well, Ben is stronger in the Force than TPM Obi-Wan, and his lightsaber technique may not be as flashy as it used to be, but he most likely was intelligent enough to modify it so that it would still be effective even into his old age. Also, Soresou uses small movements and very little energy, so that the fact that Ben is old would only go against him if he were fighting an opponent that uses big smashes and brute strength. Old Ben takes this one, in my opinion.
Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Kenobi takes this.
Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
The mroe powerful version.
😂😂
Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
OB1 beat Maul (who was a superior duelist) because he got lucky. Period. It's been proven that Maul was a better duelist.Old Ben takes this one. To assume that TPM OB1 is more powerful than old Ben is crazy. He's had more than 30 years to perfect his craft. And young OB1 here had too many flaws in his saber game to be truly effective. He hadn't even started form 3 yet.
Do you try to argue with me just to argue with me? Just curious there. And yes, I think there was more improvement from TPM to AOTC than there was from AOTC to ROTS. Its only logical, 10 years compared to 2 or 3. If he was THE master of form 3 during EP3, then he'd achieved that before the period we saw, which means he was damn near perfect with it in AOTC. Ten years is a long time to hone your skills in the force as well, at least for a human (as opposed to someone like Yoda where 10 years is like a nap). If you're under the assumption that there was some monumental power increase over the 3 year period of AOTC to ROTS then you need to rethink that theory. His speed increased, his power increase immensely, and his patience had increase serving him better in duels. Maul was tooling both OB1 and QGJ, no reason to assume that your boy Ben couldn't do that to TPM OB1 alone. Although the only thing that would be in Young Ob's favor would be his speed, but without knowing how to properly utilize it, it won't mean much. So yes, Ben beats TPM, and loses to AOTC...
Do you try to argue with me just to argue with me?
And yes, I think there was more improvement from TPM to AOTC than there was from AOTC to ROTS.
Its only logical, 10 years compared to 2 or 3.
If he was THE master of form 3 during EP3, then he'd achieved that before the period we saw, which means he was damn near perfect with it in AOTC.
Ten years is a long time to hone your skills in the force as well, at least for a human (as opposed to someone like Yoda where 10 years is like a nap). If you're under the assumption that there was some monumental power increase over the 3 year period of AOTC to ROTS then you need to rethink that theory. His speed increased, his power increase immensely, and his patience had increase serving him better in duels. Maul was tooling both OB1 and QGJ, no reason to assume that your boy Ben couldn't do that to TPM OB1 alone. Although the only thing that would be in Young Ob's favor would be his speed, but without knowing how to properly utilize it, it won't mean much. So yes, Ben beats TPM, and loses to AOTC...
Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Do you try to argue with me just to argue with me? Just curious there. And yes, I think there was more improvement from TPM to AOTC than there was from AOTC to ROTS. Its only logical, 10 years compared to 2 or 3. If he was THE master of form 3 during EP3, then he'd achieved that before the period we saw, which means he was damn near perfect with it in AOTC. Ten years is a long time to hone your skills in the force as well, at least for a human (as opposed to someone like Yoda where 10 years is like a nap). If you're under the assumption that there was some monumental power increase over the 3 year period of AOTC to ROTS then you need to rethink that theory. His speed increased, his power increase immensely, and his patience had increase serving him better in duels. Maul was tooling both OB1 and QGJ, no reason to assume that your boy Ben couldn't do that to TPM OB1 alone. Although the only thing that would be in Young Ob's favor would be his speed, but without knowing how to properly utilize it, it won't mean much. So yes, Ben beats TPM, and loses to AOTC...
What you're saying is very logical, but in the 10 years between TPM and AOTC, Obi-Wan wasn't practicing his lightsaber skills nearly as much as his diplomacy skills, which, at the time, were more important than fighting skills. I'm guessing that's what you mean by his patience improving. Between AOTC and ROTS, Obi-Wan was constantly forced to use his lightsaber to defend himself against blaster bolts, which helped him develope his Soresou so fast.
On another note, Maul did not "tool" Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon. As it appears in the movie, the pair of them had Maul on the retreat for most of the fight, if not the defensive. "Tooling" is what (as it pains me to say it) Sidious did to Mace Windu's team of Jedi when they attempted to arrest him. I don't know why, but a lot of people are under the impression that being victorious over one opponent is the same as owning.
And what do you think prepared him for all that fighting? Just sitting in his room stroking his lightsaber? C'mon y'all, use logic. You can get better over a 10 year period moreso than over a 3 year period. To assume that he was only "ok" with Soresru (?) in AOTC is ludicrous. You would have to provide proof that he only just mastered his form as of ep3, rather than say a year before. In any and everything you do, you go in stages and steps, you stay consistent with your rate of improvement, you wont just make a huge leaps and bounds out of nowhere. There's also nothing to suggest that he would get better at that point than before that. Once you start getting towards the apex of your abilities, there's only so much more you can learn; whereas when you're younger and less knowledgable, there's more for you to improve on and learn; therefore making it logical that a more inexperienced OB1 would improve more in a 10 year time span rather than an almost capped OB1 over a 3 year span. If anything, the most that OB1 would gain would be experience which has little to do with actual skill, as opposed to just learning when to apply said skills.
So please explain how you believe the opposite to be true.
And what do you think prepared him for all that fighting? Just sitting in his room stroking his lightsaber? C'mon y'all, use logic.
To assume that he was only "ok" with Soresru (?) in AOTC is ludicrous. You would have to provide proof that he only just mastered his form as of ep3, rather than say a year before.
In any and everything you do, you go in stages and steps, you stay consistent with your rate of improvement, you wont just make a huge leaps and bounds out of nowhere.
There's also nothing to suggest that he would get better at that point than before that. Once you start getting towards the apex of your abilities, there's only so much more you can learn; whereas when you're younger and less knowledgable, there's more for you to improve on and learn; therefore making it logical that a more inexperienced OB1 would improve more in a 10 year time span rather than an almost capped OB1 over a 3 year span. If anything, the most that OB1 would gain would be experience which has little to do with actual skill, as opposed to just learning when to apply said skills.
Originally posted by darthsith19
Lets compare this to lifting weights. Lets say you've been lifting weights for 5 years, an hour a day, 3 days a week. Then, for 2 more years you lift weights for an hour a day, three days a week. Then, after those 2 years, you lift weights for 7 more months, 6 days a week, 3 hours a day, you will increase more in the seven months than you did in the 2 years before that..
I gotta agree with that. I've been practicing parkour for a while now, about 1 ½, and the first year, I went out on weekends with my friend, and we trained. There I increased a little, but learn't good techniques. Now, I get out every single day for several hours, and how I have increased is amazing. This is only for about 3 months or so, or even less.
Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
And what do you think prepared him for all that fighting? Just sitting in his room stroking his lightsaber? C'mon y'all, use logic. You can get better over a 10 year period moreso than over a 3 year period. To assume that he was only "ok" with Soresru (?) in AOTC is ludicrous. You would have to provide proof that he only just mastered his form as of ep3, rather than say a year before. In any and everything you do, you go in stages and steps, you stay consistent with your rate of improvement, you wont just make a huge leaps and bounds out of nowhere. There's also nothing to suggest that he would get better at that point than before that. Once you start getting towards the apex of your abilities, there's only so much more you can learn; whereas when you're younger and less knowledgable, there's more for you to improve on and learn; therefore making it logical that a more inexperienced OB1 would improve more in a 10 year time span rather than an almost capped OB1 over a 3 year span. If anything, the most that OB1 would gain would be experience which has little to do with actual skill, as opposed to just learning when to apply said skills.So please explain how you believe the opposite to be true.
Do you really think that Obi-Wan was constanly forced to use his lightsaber and adjust his fighting style in the 10 years between TPM and AOTC? Do you really think that 10 years of peaceful negotiating will give you more fighting practice than 3 years at war, leading armies and attempting to defeat an enemy that already has the upperhand?
Another example of so-called long-term improvements could be Anakin, I guess. He did oh-so-well against the Count in AOTC because his skills progressed so fast since TPM in those 10 years (no sarcasm on the latter part). However, by ROTS, Anakin managed to kill Count Dooku from 3 years of experience at war.
Originally posted by Council#13
Do you really think that Obi-Wan was constanly forced to use his lightsaber and adjust his fighting style in the 10 years between TPM and AOTC? Do you really think that 10 years of peaceful negotiating will give you more fighting practice than 3 years at war, leading armies and attempting to defeat an enemy that already has the upperhand?
Originally posted by Council#13OB1 is no Anakin and does not posses the power of the Chosen One. It's only logical that the One would progress more quickly, also to add to that fact, Anakin at that point is at the same point that TPM OB1 was, which is the point where you have a lot to learn and pick up things more quickly thusly showing more improvement.
Another example of so-called long-term improvements could be Anakin, I guess. He did oh-so-well against the Count in AOTC because his skills progressed so fast since TPM in those 10 years (no sarcasm on the latter part). However, by ROTS, Anakin managed to kill Count Dooku from 3 years of experience at war.
And no, I'm sorry, but lifting weights is nothing like growing in skill. One has to do with how fast muscle fibers tear and rebuild, which is different in everyone, and the other has to do with potential of skillful abilities. Not the same.
@JJ: TPM OB1 was an impatient padawan incapable of leaving his master's side. AOTC OB1 was an above average knight who dealt with JF, fought extremely well at Geonosis, and did alright against Dooku. Same thing. Holding off Anakin is more of a testament of him know ing him "more intimately than lovers" rather than just uber skills. Although he was skilled.
Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Do you really think they don't "train" in all these aspect? "If you practiced your saber techniques as much as your wit, you'd rival Master Yoda as a swordsman." Obviously they dedicate themselves to their craft. If not, they would not be able to fight in all these wars. Why am i the only one who understands that. Like Kamikz, he said he's training and improved immensely, he's not out fighting in the streets, he's training.OB1 is no Anakin and does not posses the power of the Chosen One. It's only logical that the One would progress more quickly, also to add to that fact, Anakin at that point is at the same point that TPM OB1 was, which is the point where you have a lot to learn and pick up things more quickly thusly showing more improvement.
Like you said, they merely train. The training that they do is not nearly as intense as the actual fighting they need to do when confronted with an army of battle droids. No offense (seeing as this mistake may be mine), but if that's the quote from AOTC where Obi-Wan tells Anakin how good he could be, it's incorrect. Unless this is coming from a completely different source. In that case, I would be the one who's wrong.
It doesn't matter who had the power of the Chosen One, according to your argument. According to you, the increase of Obi-Wan's power was considerably more between TPM and AOTC than between AOTC and ROTS simply because he had more time to practice. Unless of course, because he is the Chosen One, when he starts is completely irrelevant, seeing as Luke put up a pretty good fight against Vader with very little training. If that is the case, I am completely at loss and don't know what is going on. 😑