Ranks for MAs

Comments:
-Here is just a suggested structuring (although some of it is probably still off.)

-I suggest you limit the category of top tier to those who have actually been recognized as the best in their respective universes - after all "One of the Best MAs" doesn't mean all that much if you're going to . E.g. Shiva, Dragon and Bronze Tiger are basically noted as the 3 best in terms of skill in the DCU. Captain America and Wolverine are noted as among the best fighters in Marvel. And those who has proven themselves equal or very very very close to these fighters in skill.
I.E. Imo you should drop perhaps even a few more down a notch if they don't fulfill that criteria, and raise back any that the majority think does fit the criteria.
In the end it really should come to something akin to a normal distribution with most fighters in the second group.

-I've added WW and Black Canary into 2nd Tier. As well as Barbara Gordon, Black Cat, Storm and Catwoman. If you decide not to follow these suggestions then remember to add them back in.

Cosmic tier: (Can damage Cl100s with no problem)
Gamora, Karate Kid, Mantis, Midnight Sun

Uber tier: (Better than the greatest martial artists)
Gorgon, Stick

Top tier: ("Greatest Martial Artists"😉
Batgirl (Cassandra Cain), Batman, Bronze Tiger, Captain America, Connor Hawke, Iron Fist, Kingpin, Lady Shiva, Richard Dragon, Shang Chi, Shen Kuei (The Cat), Taskmaster, Wolverine

Second tier: (Master Martial Artist)
Azrael, Bane, Black Canary, Black Panther, Black Widow, Bullseye, Deadpool, Daredevil, Elektra, Eric Killmonger, Deathstroke, Green Arrow, Nightwing, Midnighter, Moon Knight, Nick Fury, Night Thrasher, Punisher, Ra's al Ghul, Red Hood, Red Skull, Robin, Sabretooth, US Agent, Wonder Woman

Third tier: (Moderately to Highly Skilled)
Batgirl (Barbara Gordon), Black Cat, Cyclops, Psylocke, Storm, Thing

Accomplished fighter: (Little formal training/Some Skill)
Beast, Catwoman, Luke Cage, Spider-Man

Dakon should be Top Tier for sure.

you put DareDevil as a second tier!? And Psylocke as a third tier!? WHY!?

Originally posted by AcousticDoc
you put DareDevil as a second tier!? And Psylocke as a third tier!? WHY!?

... because it makes sense?

Originally posted by AcousticDoc
you put DareDevil as a second tier!? And Psylocke as a third tier!? WHY!?

Also, forgot to finish sentence, too late to edit:

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
after all "One of the Best MAs" doesn't mean all that much if you're going to

I would put Elektra in the top-tier bracket. In terms of pure skill, she's definitely in the same league as the likes of Lady Shiva and Shang Chi.

Why is shang chi considered top tier? Has he ever fought some of the other top tier heroes?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Comments:
-Here is just a suggested structuring (although some of it is probably still off.)

-I suggest you limit the category of top tier to those who have actually been recognized as the best in their respective universes - after all "One of the Best MAs" doesn't mean all that much if you're going to . E.g. Shiva, Dragon and Bronze Tiger are basically noted as the 3 best in terms of skill in the DCU. Captain America and Wolverine are noted as among the best fighters in Marvel. And those who has proven themselves equal or very very very close to these fighters [b]in skill.
I.E. Imo you should drop perhaps even a few more down a notch if they don't fulfill that criteria, and raise back any that the majority think does fit the criteria.
In the end it really should come to something akin to a normal distribution with most fighters in the second group.

-I've added WW and Black Canary into 2nd Tier. As well as Barbara Gordon, Black Cat, Storm and Catwoman. If you decide not to follow these suggestions then remember to add them back in.

Cosmic tier: (Can damage Cl100s with no problem)
Gamora, Karate Kid, Mantis, Midnight Sun

Uber tier: (Better than the greatest martial artists)
Gorgon, Stick

Top tier: ("Greatest Martial Artists"😉
Batgirl (Cassandra Cain), Batman, Bronze Tiger, Captain America, Connor Hawke, Iron Fist, Kingpin, Lady Shiva, Richard Dragon, Shang Chi, Shen Kuei (The Cat), Taskmaster, Wolverine

Second tier: (Master Martial Artist)
Azrael, Bane, Black Canary, Black Panther, Black Widow, Bullseye, Deadpool, Daredevil, Elektra, Eric Killmonger, Deathstroke, Green Arrow, Nightwing, Midnighter, Moon Knight, Nick Fury, Night Thrasher, Punisher, Ra's al Ghul, Red Hood, Red Skull, Robin, Sabretooth, US Agent, Wonder Woman

Third tier: (Moderately to Highly Skilled)
Batgirl (Barbara Gordon), Black Cat, Cyclops, Psylocke, Storm, Thing

Accomplished fighter: (Little formal training/Some Skill)
Beast, Catwoman, Luke Cage, Spider-Man [/B]

Definitely co-signing X's suggestions. It seems a lot closer to actuality, though people like the Punisher, Robin, and US Agent still don't seem nearly as skilled as Daredevil, Elektra, or Ra's Al Ghul. Hence, in my opinion, the need of four tiers (besides the 'accomplished fighter' bracket).

Also, the kingpin (though he has taken it to Spidey, Capt and Daredevil) isn't in skill nearly as impressive as the company he keeps.

I dont fully agree with a few of X's 2nd tier picks.

For example theres Fist, Kingpin, Chi and Wolvie in the top while Daredevil, Elektra, Fury and Wonder Woman are 2nd?

If we're off skills, the 2nd tier characters i mentioned show more skill than some of those top tier characters.

Kingpin I agree with moving down. However, the top tier should be reserved for the best of the best. The smaller the top tier, the better - just like in the regular 'tiering' thread.

Chi, Fist, Wolverine, and Captain America are renowned on Marvel Earth as some of the best fighters alive. Daredevil has some insane showings, but he isn't commonly referred to as one of the best fighters on Marvel Earth. We also must take into account the fact that he has a HUGE advantage in his radar sense, and this ranking is supposed to discount powers.

(powerless)Wonder Woman was beaten by the Black Canary who got handled by Batman. She isn't top tier in skill.

Nightwing and Robin shouldn't really be in the same tier, theres a clear gap in terms of their fighting skills, if they do get grouped together it probably suggests there should be an addition tier.

Originally posted by Wally West
Nightwing and Robin shouldn't really be in the same tier, theres a clear gap in terms of their fighting skills, if they do get grouped together it probably suggests there should be an addition tier.

✅

Something I've already been advocating. Nice to have another voice agreeing.

umm gorgon skill would not put him at over top tier........

Originally posted by capt it up
umm gorgon skill would not put him at over top tier........

Furthering my earlier suggestions:
-I'd probably limit the Top Tier grouping to 6 a piece from Marvel and DC i.e. the top 6 MAs from Marvel and the top 6 from DC. E.g. for Elektra to move up, someone would have to move down.
-I don't really see the point of having two categories above Top-Tier, and would probably amalgamate them and add a Fourth tier...
Comments:
-I agree about Gorgon to an extent, because he had a lot of power enhancements. I would also drop Midnight Sun I think, as I'm assuming he was placed there because of his physical powers, besides the likes of Gamora and Karate Kid are universally recognised.
-Some reshuffling... it's probably still off.

Cosmic tier: (Can damage Cl100s with no problem)
Gamora, Karate Kid, Mantis, Midnight Sun

Uber tier: (Better than the greatest martial artists)
Gorgon, Stick

Top tier: ("Greatest Martial Artists"😉
Batgirl (Cassandra Cain), Batman, Bronze Tiger, Captain America, Connor Hawke, Iron Fist, Lady Shiva, Richard Dragon, Shang Chi, Shen Kuei (The Cat), Taskmaster, Wolverine

Second tier: (Master Martial Artists)
Azrael, Black Canary, Black Panther, Black Widow, Bullseye, Deadpool, Daredevil, Elektra, Eric Killmonger, Deathstroke, Moon Knight, Nick Fury, Ra's al Ghul, Red Skull, Silver Samurai, Sabretooth, Wonder Woman

Third tier: (Moderate to Highly Skilled)
Bane, Green Arrow, Kingpin, Lady Deathstrike, Night Thrasher, Nightwing, Midnighter, Punisher, Psylocke, Red Hood, Robin, Shadowcat, US Agent

Fourth Tier: (Trained Martial Artist)
Batgirl (Barbara Gordon), Black Cat, Colleen Wing, Cyclops, Misty Knight, The Question, Storm, Thing

Accomplished fighter: (Little formal training/Some Skill)
Beast, Catwoman, Luke Cage, Spider-Man

I applaud your work, X. It's very well done.

Anything particularly off?

Having Robin in the same grouping as Nightwing was a bit iffy but then he's above the Cyclops/Thing level, while Nightwing is below the Black Canary/Daredevil level... so they basically got squeezed together.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Anything particularly off?

Having Robin in the same grouping as Nightwing was a bit iffy but then he's above the Cyclops/Thing level, while Nightwing is below the Black Canary/Daredevil level... so they basically got squeezed together.

I agree on the Nightwing/Robin scenario....it's hard to accurately space out everyone, though. So I understand your feeling - the same problem has arisen once or twice in the full tiering thread, as well.

Besides that, I'm kind of wondering about Shen Kuei. He's great, but inconsistent. Sometimes he's beating Deadpool and Shang Chi like they're nothing, and in others he's one shotted by the Iron Fist.

He's good. He's inconsistent. 😬. I, personally, think he can stay, though.

There are small discrepancies. Nick Fury is a great fighter. The robin/nightwing scenario.

But for the most part, I'd say it's fairly accurate. 👆 .

Put Cable in Top-Tier.......

Originally posted by Martian_mind
Put Cable in Top-Tier.......

And exactly which feats justify him as one of the greatest martial artists on the planet?