Originally posted by willofthewisp
Da Pittman, the whole idea of Christianity is that Jesus was God and therefore able to come back from the dead. If someone rising from the dead defies your imagination, it is because you are using the wrong criteria to begin with.
It doesn't defy anyone's imagination. In fact, it was an idea used repeatedly and by the majority of religions through out time.
This is what I mean when I say that religion is a response to the human condition. Humans don't want to die, so they create religions that answer the questions we have about death, and the answer is, over and over and in most religions, that we can have life in another form if we just believe in it. Again, if the whole idea of christianity is everlasting life and the means to acheive it, then christianity is nothing new.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I found this post at this link. It is kind of amusing.http://www.livescience.com/history/top10_intelligent_designs.html
[b]LAUGHING AT THE WRONG PEOPLE? "A Myth-UnderstandIng"
From the first second of Creation FORWARD, scientist claim to possess "answers" to explain away the natural sciences behind the universe. They chuckle at "Creationist's" silly beliefs that a superior intelligence actually exists & took time build this reality virtually out of "nothing." And if you ask them something as simple as... "What existed '1 second' BEFORE Creation?" A glazed look appears in their eyes or they emotionally/vehemently write you off as a blasphemer or something equally silly.
So much for open-mindedness. Actually, it's an AWESOME question more people should be asking. Why? Because the answer is so terrifying & freakingly awesome... it'll blow one's narrow-mindedness away... and they might learn something new.
Face it... anything (created, produced, manufactured) in this reality of ours requires intelligence. I've never seen a cup 'evolve" from clay, have you? Normally, it's made by human hand or machine. And that's something simple... a universe would take a little more effort & intelligence to create... agree?
Well, like it or not... somebody DID figure it out. Somebody did create something out of nothing. Somebody a whole lot smarter than us DID figure out a way to build a perfectly balanced "Cup" out of nothing... gave it shape; added space to hold all sorts of really neat stuff like (energy, matter & time);gave it several dimensions; heated the whole thing up to get things cooking... and did it all using a "Super Science" beyond our comprehension to accomplish it. And to show off... they made the perfect recipe for a myriad of animal life forms and humanity.
But did it all really come from "Nothingness?" Depends, if we really were "Cooked" up on some super scientist's laboratory in another 'reality' -Hmmm, I'm sure he had a test tube of "space", "time", "energy" & "matter" to spare. Why is that so hard to believe? Because the scale of his experiment is universal in size? Consider this: If synthetic molecules or particles could created to think & feel... I am sure they'd have an equally hard time believing a "Human" intelligence existed to create them... but guess what?
Well, in this case, the scientist is God... the universe's greatest Super Scientist. Give credit where credit is due. And he built this wonderful reality for us to explore, learn, enjoy and be amazed with. Why? Why does any scientist, inventor or creator build? And what's so hard to believing you're his greatest masterpiece? Many resist that line of thinking... why? Could it be they find themselves on the wrong side of the argument? If so, relax.
God likes you...he's is a cool dude and understands humanity. And he wants you to seek and find him. That's why he left a universe full of scientific breadcrumbs to follow back to the source... (him). Why? The universe reflects his true nature... (i.e. a balanced-organized-chaos, breath-taking wonders, absolute / constant values like mathematics, universal constants & morality... and reasonable punishment for defying/breaking any natural; universal and/or supernatural law.
The problem isn't God... it's us. We can't control him like we can't control the universe or its laws. And what we cannot control or manipulate... it's just easier to ignore and deny. That can prove very dangerous and deadly. A better way to view this is by respecting that we cannot control... and finding a way to better understand and work with it. As a Christian... I don't always like God either. But like any other relationship, it takes patience, humor and an open-mind to appreciate the 'differences' and find a way to get along.
I love science and the scientific method... I mean, what's the real difference between Faith & Theory? I have a theory God created the universe. I observe natural law; universal law; the precarious balance of 'universal constants' required for life and then draw a conclusion. The only thing I cannot do is conduct/"repeat" experiments to gather hard-core facts for or against a Creator.
But consider this... many fascinating scientific theories meet this same fate. (i.e. Time travel; parallel universes; warp speed(?)...etc.) So, we are forced to add up what facts we can glean and move from the realm of "fact" to the realm of "probability." And knowing what we know about our universe... we must then ask ourselves a simple question: "What force is known for fanciful dreaming, unlikely designing and then building wondrously (impossible?) masterpieces up from nothing?" The Answer: "Intelligence"
Bottom Line: You've got a brain and a heart... use them both. If you are going to mock those who believe in Creationism... do it intelligently... not emotionally. And try it before you mock it... -they just might have it right. [/B]
Man, that was FREAKINGLY AWESOME!
Originally posted by Zeal Ex Nihilo
When they pierced Christ's side, blood and water flowed from the wound. As in, the plasma and blood had already begun to separate. Furthermore, there would be no mistaking a half-dead Christ for what he was--unlike a risen Christ.
Tell me, how does one spin gold from straw?
"See, stupid muslims are just one flawed idea away from being christians too!"----devil king
Wow, 5 posts in a row. That's not excessive in any way...
I wasn't calling Muslims stupid and I'm not sure why you are either. You can't assume one thing about an entire group. Islam is the 2nd most popular religion in the world and the people who follow it vary on the intelligence scale from genius to idiot the same as any other group does.
I suppose they are just one idea away from being Christians since they hold Jesus in high regard but do not believe he is God or that he even died, much less came back to life. But if you really want to go into fundamental differences, I suggest the Christians and Muslims of this board bring them up. According to classes I have taken, Muslim friends, and Muslim teachers, up until Abraham, Christians and Muslims are in agreement about creation, the fall of man, the flood, etc. The big split originates from the line they follow. Abraham had two sons. The first was by a servant Hagar. She had Ishmael. Christians believe that when God promised Abraham a baby, he promised him that he and his wife Sarah would have a baby, not Abraham and some other woman. So God sent Hagar and Ishmael into another region and took good care of them, promising Ishmael his own great nation. Meanwhile, Sarah had Isaac, and Jews and Christians pay attention to this line because it ties into Jesus' line and forms the history of the Children of Israel. Does that make sense?
Originally posted by dadudemon
With Rumpelstiltskin powers...probably unique to Rumpelstiltskin. hmmI hear his powers require a 56 of wisdom but can be countered with a level 2 Messenger of Spying. hmm
I've seen a crumpled foreskin, but never a midget that lives in the wall that can spin gold.
That's some Dungeons and Dragons stuff, isn't it?
Originally posted by willofthewispThat is the premise of what I just said and why there is a conflict in logic. I believe that a man can not rise from the dead and JIA thinks they can, since you can not interview the eyewitness or the accounts there are no way to verify their story. The only “evidence” that Jesus was a god is the eyewitness testimony that claimed things that a normal man can not do, there is no physical evidence to support the claim just eyewitness and everyone knows how fallible that is.
Da Pittman, the whole idea of Christianity is that Jesus was God and therefore able to come back from the dead. If someone rising from the dead defies your imagination, it is because you are using the wrong criteria to begin with.
It is like looking at a magician, if you believe in magic and someone asked you what happened they would say it was magic. If you don’t believe in magic but that it was a trick then you would get a completely different story from the same event.
Originally posted by willofthewisp
"See, stupid muslims are just one flawed idea away from being christians too!"----devil kingWow, 5 posts in a row. That's not excessive in any way...
Get to the bible thumping, buddha. I don't want to hear your opinion.
Originally posted by willofthewisp
I wasn't calling Muslims stupid and I'm not sure why you are either. You can't assume one thing about an entire group. Islam is the 2nd most popular religion in the world and the people who follow it vary on the intelligence scale from genius to idiot the same as any other group does.I suppose they are just one idea away from being Christians since they hold Jesus in high regard but do not believe he is God or that he even died, much less came back to life. But if you really want to go into fundamental differences, I suggest the Christians and Muslims of this board bring them up. According to classes I have taken, Muslim friends, and Muslim teachers, up until Abraham, Christians and Muslims are in agreement about creation, the fall of man, the flood, etc. The big split originates from the line they follow. Abraham had two sons. The first was by a servant Hagar. She had Ishmael. Christians believe that when God promised Abraham a baby, he promised him that he and his wife Sarah would have a baby, not Abraham and some other woman. So God sent Hagar and Ishmael into another region and took good care of them, promising Ishmael his own great nation. Meanwhile, Sarah had Isaac, and Jews and Christians pay attention to this line because it ties into Jesus' line and forms the history of the Children of Israel. Does that make sense?
No, you didn't call them stupid, you just spoke as though every religion in the world is a hairs breadth away from realizing Jesus is god. And ignoring that breadth , rather than embracing it, has caused the murder of millions upon millions through out history.
Originally posted by Da PittmanIn Bradley's broader argument, he delves into the remarkable complexity of genetic information present in all living cells. The spontanious inception of such an organized system seems unlikely if one does not leave open the possibility of an intelligent designer.
[BWhile this is a nice post and does bring up some good ideas it is still basically flawed. Just looking at the Space Seed idea in your post, the “the most marginal fiber of supporting evidence” can also be applied to God creating the universe. There is not a fiber of supporting evidence to back up the claim just the same if aliens created life on Earth. The conclusions that Bradley comes up with is based on modern knowledge, where this is all we have but the assumption that were are 100% correct is flawed.[/B]
Originally posted by Tim Routok i admit there was an intelligent designer. and his name is Chuck Norris
In Bradley's broader argument, he delves into the remarkable complexity of genetic information present in all living cells. The spontanious inception of such an organized system seems unlikely if one does not leave open the possibility of an intelligent designer.
Originally posted by Tim RoutThis is my point; it is complex because we do not fully understand it down to the very basic levels. This is like us trying to figure out trigonometry without understanding basic math. We are only in the infant stage of understanding of human biology and the leaps we have made in just the past 50 years. It took us until the 19th century to find and figure out how to use the atom, now the technology to use it is common place and everyone and their grandmother uses it.
In Bradley's broader argument, he delves into the remarkable complexity of genetic information present in all living cells. The spontanious inception of such an organized system seems unlikely if one does not leave open the possibility of an intelligent designer.
Originally posted by Tim Rout
In Bradley's broader argument, he delves into the remarkable complexity of genetic information present in all living cells. The spontanious inception of such an organized system seems unlikely if one does not leave open the possibility of an intelligent designer.
The Drake Equation:
N = N* fp ne fl fi fc fL
http://www.activemind.com/Mysterious/Topics/SETI/drake_equation.html
In the universe there is so much vastness that even the most unbelievable odds are possible.
Think about the complexity of a snow flack, and no one design it.
Originally posted by Tim Rout
In Bradley's broader argument, he delves into the remarkable complexity of genetic information present in all living cells. The spontanious inception of such an organized system seems unlikely if one does not leave open the possibility of an intelligent designer.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/03/060327083737.htm
Originally posted by AngryManateeJoyce has yet to demonstrate how conversion can be accomplished without the assistance of an intelligence.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/03/060327083737.htm
Originally posted by ShakyamunisonDrake is only relevant if one accepts the existence of aliens. Show me life indigenous to another planet and we'll talk. 🙂
The Drake Equation:N = N* fp ne fl fi fc fL
http://www.activemind.com/Mysterious/Topics/SETI/drake_equation.html
In the universe there is so much vastness that even the most unbelievable odds are possible.
Think about the complexity of a snow flack, and no one design it.
As to the relative complexity of snow flakes, two considerations:
1. The relative complexity of snow flakes is incomparable to biological mechanisms.
2. We have only your word that God didn't create snow flakes. 🙂
Originally posted by Tim Rout
Joyce has yet to demonstrate how conversion can be accomplished without the assistance of an intelligence.
From the source: The molecular conversion or transfer of both genetic information and catalytic function between these two different genetic systems, which are both based on nucleic acid-like molecules, is exactly what many scientists believe occurred during the very earliest period of earth's existence.
So you're saying that they should've just let it convert at a natural pace , which would have exceeded their life spans? The only assistance was that of the acceleration of the process.