Darth Maul vs. General Grievous

Started by vader113 pages

Originally posted by darthsith19
Uh, don't you mean [b]long time no see?

😕 [/B]

Ya, I don't know why I typed wrong...><

It happens.

I know...><

Advent, calm down. I was just trying to point out that Maul isn't an idiot. Yes, Greivous has a better mid for tactics.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Advent, calm down. I was just trying to point out that Maul isn't an idiot.

I don't see where I've claimed, or implied otherwise.

Yes, Greivous has a better mid for tactics.

Which, with all things included with that, suggests that he is more intelligent than Maul would ever be capable of. And, indeed, he is. So, I don't know how you can "doubt" something without having any reason to believe such, other than the fact your extremely mis/uninformed.

For Advent:
From The New Essential Guide to Characters:
Maul's heart burned with anticipation when his Master instructed him to hunt down two Jedi, Qui-Gon Jinn and Obi-Wan Kenobi, on Tatooine and Naboo. Had he not run into Togorian pirates and Sand People along the way, perhaps he would have been at full strength for the conflict inside the Theed power generator.

I just had a thought, i don't think Mauls double bladed lightsaber, will do good against GG four lightsabers, i just keep picturing it and don't see Maul standing a chance, i think he would do better, with just 1. I could be wrong, though.

And Dartsith19, there is to little people on your site(at least, the last time i checked), if it was more, i would join.


Well, Maul could always just use one end f his saber if he chooses to. There are not that many people on my site, just about 4 or so that post regularly, but you know, you could be #5, vader11 joined there, too.

Ya, your site doesn't have many members, you should get more...

Originally posted by darthsith19
For Advent:
From The New Essential Guide to Characters:
Maul's heart burned with anticipation when his Master instructed him to hunt down two Jedi, Qui-Gon Jinn and Obi-Wan Kenobi, on Tatooine and Naboo. Had he not run into Togorian pirates and Sand People along the way, perhaps he would have been at full strength for the conflict inside the Theed power generator.

For darthsith19,

From Advent's previous post:

"How about elaborating, as this makes absolutely no sense, nor does it have anything to do with what I said, because it's the mere fact that he was surprised, and the like."

Now, I'm just going to go ahead, and do what I've been asking you to do for the past two posts. It's called an explanation or an elaboration. This is largely irrelevant as it has absolutely nothing to do with the fact he was "caught off guard by the other's wild assault". He wasn't noted as having any problems with his mental game, ergo it doesn't matter if he was at 'full strength' or not, because he still was caught off guard (meaning he didn't expect it), him being physically injured has nothing to do with that (plus, he's was still a far more competent and able duelist than Obi-Wan was in the actual battle), he simply didn't anticipate that happening.

As I said, Darth Maul has never seen a construct like Grievous, so it's safe to assume the unorthodox elements he implements in his lightsaber battles (i.e. his speed, four armed combat, agility, etc.) could easily overwhelm Maul, especially if he plays it smart - as he'd undoubtedly do.

Moreover, the point involving "Obi-Wan, while not so experienced as Qui-Gon, was quicker. Anticipating each blow, he was able to elude his antagonist's efforts to bring him down" still stands, seeing as even at that strength capacity, Kenobi is still nowhere near him in speed, power, or skill. Also, the gap between the Maul we see in TPM, and him at "full strength" can't possibly be that great anyways, and it's the simple fact that he [Kenobi] was quick, which allowed him to contend with him. Anyways, the fact of the matter is Grievous is leagues above Darth Maul in speed.

I try to get more, that's why I send pm's to people like you guys and I send out invitations to others and when I sent it to you guys I pm'd 2 otehr guys, too, there's 4 new members right there... but guess what, one of you joined, one said he didn't cause there wasn't enough members, the other 2 didn't say nothing or join. That's what always happens when I try to invite people, but I do have 32 members but some of them have only posted like once or twice when they first joined and then not came back again. Some don't ever post. So the site remains smallish, though not terrible for a free i-n-v-i-s-i-o-n-f-r-e-e site...

This is largely irrelevant as it has absolutely nothing to do with the fact he was "caught off guard by the other's wild assault".

"After Qui-Gon is killed, and the doors open we know that Darth Maul is described as being "The Sith Lord was borne backward by the Jedi Knight's initial rush, caught off guard by the other's wild assault", and indeed his assault was wild."

Before I reply to this, is this from the novel?

because he still was caught off guard (meaning he didn't expect it), him being physically injured has nothing to do with that (plus, he's was still a far more competent and able duelist than Obi-Wan was in the actual battle), he simply didn't anticipate that happening.

Source? And it just means he didn't expect them to be as strong as they were. Nothing says that my quote was referring to that specific point in your post, either, does it. It was just a side comment.
As I said, Darth Maul has never seen a construct like Grievous, so it's safe to assume the unorthodox elements he implements in his lightsaber battles (i.e. his speed, four armed combat, agility, etc.) could easily overwhelm Maul, especially if he plays it smart - as he'd undoubtedly do.

Maybe, they didn't overwhelm Mace Windu, though, and that was EU Grievous. It could also be said that Grievous has never fought anyone like Maul, either. Nobody with a double-bladed lightsaber, and Maul plays it smart, too, jumping around if he feels like he's in danger, getting a new attack ready, Greivous is less mobile than Maul, Maul could use that to his advantage, too. Grievous hasn't fought anyone with Maul's jump around tactics, either.

Moreover, the point involving "Obi-Wan, while not so experienced as Qui-Gon, was quicker. Anticipating each blow, he was able to elude his antagonist's efforts to bring him down" still stands, seeing as even at that strength capacity, Kenobi is still nowhere near him in speed, power, or skill. Also, the gap between the Maul we see in TPM, and him at "full strength" can't possibly be that great anyways, and it's the simple fact that he [Kenobi] was quick, which allowed him to contend with him. Anyways, the fact of the matter is Grievous is leagues above Darth Maul in speed.

Kenobi only was so close to Maul right then because he was empowered by the Dark Side, and it wore him out extremely quickly, you realise that Maul took out "Dark Side" Kenobvi about as quickly as ROTS Kenobi took down Grievous in a fight, don't you? And yeah, Grievous moves his sabers faster than Maul, but overall, Maul is afster than Grievous, he can move the rest of his body a lot faster, Grievous just moves his arms fast. Doesn't really prove than Grievous > Maul.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Before I reply to this, is this from the novel?

1. There's no actual reason to reply, as it won't change anything.

2. Yes.

Source?

Source for what? Why would you ask for where this information is stored twice when its an inference on the same exact quote that you inquired about above? Anyways, see above.

And it just means he didn't expect them to be as strong as they were.

Uh, what? This is at the end of the battle itself, as soon as the energy rays allow passage to the melting pit. And it was only Obi-Wan, so I'm not sure where you're getting the plural "they" from.

Nothing says that my quote was referring to that specific point in your post, either, does it. It was just a side comment.

What? You don't even make sense here. Since I can't understand how this has anything to do with the specific point you quoted, I'll just generally address it: the entire reason for you bringing up that quote implies heavily and directly that you're trying to form some type of argument about the lines, and points I made regarding the duel in the melting pit on Naboo.

Maybe, they didn't overwhelm Mace Windu, though, and that was EU Grievous.

You've already addressed your own point for me. He was fighting Mace Windu, the man who was put Sidious on his ass.

It could also be said that Grievous has never fought anyone like Maul, either.

Except that the foreign style advantage goes directly to General Grievous, because: 1) even in the highly unlikely case that Count Dooku didn't program him with knowledge on the double bladed lightsaber, he's shown the ability to partially decipher the most foreign style (Vaapad; in that it wasn't a 'traditional' form) in seconds, so there's no reason why he shouldn't be able to do the same here with a form that he already knows, and 2) Maul has never seen anything like Grievous (it can be assumed Grievous has knowledge of double bladed users, or seen them, at the least), and wouldn't expect anything like that. No one would really.

Maul plays it smart, too, jumping around if he feels like he's in danger, getting a new attack ready

And what's your point? General Grievous is still a better warrior in battle than Darth Maul, not only because his skill surpasses that of Maul, but also because he's far more battle hardened, and was one of, if not the most, talented strategist the CIS had. So, it doesn't really matter, because in tactics: Grievous > Maul.

Greivous is less mobile than Maul

What the **** are you talking about? Grievous can bend his body in ways the Dark Lord can't, considering he's of droid construct. Even in RotS, he climbs on all fours like a spider, and moves extremely quickly. Watch when he climbs into his wheelbike at three minutes and thirty seconds into this video:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=9G4Cel-ZvK4

That's mobility, buster.

Maul could use that to his advantage, too.

Except there's nothing to use, as that was bullshit you made up, and is disproved by actual canon.

Kenobi only was so close to Maul right then because he was empowered by the Dark Side, and it wore him out extremely quickly

Point being? This is, again, largely irrelevant - because Grievous is: stronger, faster, and more skilled than TPM Kenobi by lightyears. Even when if he were to brush with the Dark side, I'd surmise Grievous would down him faster than a shot of Vodka. The point still stands, regardless.

you realise that Maul took out "Dark Side" Kenobvi about as quickly as ROTS Kenobi took down Grievous in a fight, don't you?

Relevance? Oh? What's that? None?

And yeah, Grievous moves his sabers faster than Maul, but overall, Maul is afster than Grievous he can move the rest of his body a lot faster

I lol'd.

Just watch the link provided above, which suggests Grievous didn't lose much of his mobility since Mace force crushed him. As well, we see in the CW cartoon that the General is fast as all hell, and moves his body extremely proficiently. For you to have a point, like I said, you'd have to prove there's a major gap in ['physical'] attributes between EU and RotS Grievous. Which you've yet to do.

Furthermore, even working under the incorrect assumption that Darth Maul is "overall faster", who cares? We see that without even moving an inch Grievous can hold his ground in all directions, and neither his speed nor reflexes have seemingly decreased much since the time when he did that.

Uh, what? This is at the end of the battle itself, as soon as the energy rays allow passage to the melting pit. And it was only Obi-Wan, so I'm not sure where you're getting the plural "they" from.

My mistake, he didn't expect Kenobi to be as strong as he was. He underestimated him.
You've already addressed your own point for me. He was fighting Mace Windu, the man who was put Sidious on his ass.

You say that like Mace did it easily. Really, Mace isn't to far above Maul with a blade (Maul nearly kileld Sidious in a duel, and bested Anoon Bondara, who supposedly had better saber skills than even Yoda, amongst other things).
And what's your point? General Grievous is still a better warrior in battle than Darth Maul, not only because his skill surpasses that of Maul, but also because he's far more battle hardened, and was one of, if not the most, talented strategist the CIS had. So, it doesn't really matter, because in tactics: Grievous > Maul.

True, he is a better strategist than Maul is. However, although he does have more experience than Maul does, Maul has spent a LOT more time training and that likely nearly makes up for his lack of experience. Plus, Grievous relies heavily on surprise and the fear of his opponents in order to win. I seriously doubt Maul will be afraid of Grievous, plus Grievous doesn't have the element of surprise in this fight.
What the **** are you talking about? Grievous can bend his body in ways the Dark Lord can't, considering he's of droid construct. Even in RotS, he climbs on all fours like a spider, and moves extremely quickly. Watch when he climbs into his wheelbike at three minutes and thirty seconds into this video:

He can bend, yes, but less mobile meaning he can't actually move around the room as easily, he can't jump out of harm's way in an instant if he has to.
Except there's nothing to use, as that was bullshit you made up, and is disproved by actual canon.

What canon disproves the fact that Maul plays it smart and jumps out of danger when he needs to? And btw, that's not bullshit, watch the duel between Maul, Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan in TPM.

Point being? This is, again, largely irrelevant - because Grievous is: stronger, faster, and more skilled than TPM Kenobi by lightyears. Even when if he were to brush with the Dark side, I'd surmise Grievous would down him faster than a shot of Vodka. The point still stands, regardless.

Not by lightyears at all, he's hardly even faster, he moves his sabers faster, but that's it, and not by to much, either. And your vodka analogy is complete hyperbole, Maul proved hismelf as far ahead of Kenobi as ROTS Kenobi proved himself to be ahead of Grievous, and ROTS kenobi vs. grievous wasn't that close.
Relevance? Oh? What's that? None?

Maul > Kenobi by the same degree that ROTS Kenobi > Grievous. I'm pretty sure that Maul is closer to ROTS Kenobi than Grievous is to TPM Kenobi, so can you figure out my point or do I have to explain my "irrelevent" and likely "bullshit" point?
Just watch the link provided above, which actually suggests Grievous didn't lose much of his mobility since Mace force crushed him. As well, we see in the CW cartoon that the General is fast as all hell, and moves his body extremely proficiently. For you to have a point, like I said, you'd have to prove there's a major gap in ['physical'] attributes between EU and RotS Grievous. Which you've yet to actually do.

I've watched ROTS, just last week, Grievous doesn't lose much mobility since Mace force crushes him? Lol, look at how fast he's running around during his fight on Hypori, he moves a lot slower and a lot less in ROTS, and that's when he's losing. You really want me to prove that EU grievous is a lot stronger than ROTS Grievous? Grievous moves a LOT slower, and lost to ROTS Kenobi after a medium length duel. EU Grievous pwnd 5 Jedi Masters at once, and in LOE pwnd 4 Jedi at once, look at those things you mentioned about hi in your original post, Dooku had a real hard time ebsting him, as did Mace, who both >>> ROTS Kenobi.
Furthermore, even working under the incorrect assumption that Darth Maul is "overall faster", who cares? We see that without even moving an inch Grievous can hold his ground in all directions, and neither his speed nor reflexes have seemingly decreased much since the time when he did that.

When was this? And watch chapter 20 of the Clone Wars cartoon, then watch ROTS. His speed diminished a LOT.

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
No, I'm actually being serious, I'll post the PM:

[b]Author - Kadesh

Sigh

sigh ok, since you like bane and want to stay in this forum debating, theres nothing i can do. Well since you like bane so much why not put up either one of these avatars

[insert picture of naked man with Darth Bane mask #1]

or

[insert picture of naked man with Darth Bane mask #2]

Just resize them

O yes and im trying to be nice, so dont snap it

...

Seriously, that's just weird. [/B]

Roflmao. You're giving me a heart attack... 😆

That's just creepy.