God was no where...he doesn't exist. An All Loving God would not allow his children to endure these sufferings, especially when he has the power to stop it.
If I had children, I would protect them from everything I possibly can, especially If I were omnipotent.
That's true Love. Not this whole, "Do what I say and you'll go to Heaven, disobey me and burn in hell" bullshit.
Re: Where was God during the Virginia Tech Massacre?
Originally posted by FistOfThe NorthIf someone isn't allowed to do something, how can learning take place? One must come into contact with the results of their actions to have a response to said actions be justified. I disagree with the "minority report" mentality.
I'm asking as a believer of God cause it want to know. I've asked Him, friends and family and haven't got a sensible answer yet so i want to see what answers i get from here..Anyone?
Re: Re: Where was God during the Virginia Tech Massacre?
Originally posted by Regret
If someone isn't allowed to do something, how can learning take place? One must come into contact with the results of their actions to have a response to said actions be justified. I disagree with the "minority report" mentality.
Trillions of horrible things have happened in this world, and humanity still hasn't learned shit.
we still refuse to get along, work together, we are still oppressing people we see as weaker than ourselves, suffering from complexes, and in constant competition with each other.
"God's method" of Free Will, and boiling up the Cauldron of Hell, isn't quite working. Besides, according to your Bible, he is going to destroy this world ne way, and re make it in his image....it's a self defeating mythology, and it in no way motivates anyone to become better, other than by reward of Heaven and threat of Hell.
Your God does not exist. Bottom Line- A Loving Parent does not allow this kind of thing to happen to thier children. A Loving Parent shields thier child from all self evident harm as best they can.
If your parent has omnipotence, then you should expect that your parent protect you from everything, and ensure only your happiness.
IF there is a lesson you must learn, with omnipotence, your parent may teach you in one of millions of safer ways.
The truth is that Nature lacks empathy. This life is hard, and it is entirely up to mankind to take care of it. We are solely responsible for what we do, because no one else is monitoring our actions. Only we are.
it all boils down to free will. he gives us free will to do whatever we want as long as we are mortals on this earth. if we elect to shoot up a college, he is not going to stop us. if we elect to gas millions of Jews, he isn't going to stop us. if we elect to assassinate a president, he will not intervene.
i have heard this argument so many times it makes my ears hurt "why does god allow this, why doesn't god stop that?"... because we have brought it upon ourselves. we make our own conscious decisions what we do in this life, and we are judged afterwards. i guarantee you this asian guy is roasting in hell right now.
this is my opinion, thats all, based on my belief structure, and i am not trying to push it on you guys. i am RJ, not JIA.
Re: Re: Re: Where was God during the Virginia Tech Massacre?
Originally posted by Goddess Kali
Trillions of horrible things have happened in this world, and humanity still hasn't learned shit.we still refuse to get along, work together, we are still oppressing people we see as weaker than ourselves, suffering from complexes, and in constant competition with each other.
"God's method" of Free Will, and boiling up the Cauldron of Hell, isn't quite working. Besides, according to your Bible, he is going to destroy this world ne way, and re make it in his image....it's a self defeating mythology, and it in no way motivates anyone to become better, other than by reward of Heaven and threat of Hell.
Your God does not exist. Bottom Line- A Loving Parent does not allow this kind of thing to happen to thier children. A Loving Parent shields thier child from all self evident harm as best they can.
If your parent has omnipotence, then you should expect that your parent protect you from everything, and ensure only your happiness.
IF there is a lesson you must learn, with omnipotence, your parent may teach you in one of millions of safer ways.
The truth is that Nature lacks empathy. This life is hard, and it is entirely up to mankind to take care of it. We are solely responsible for what we do, because no one else is monitoring our actions. Only we are.
Tell me, what do many children do when parents try to control them?
Re: Where was God during the Virginia Tech Massacre?
Originally posted by FistOfThe North
I'm asking as a believer of God cause it want to know. I've asked Him, friends and family and haven't got a sensible answer yet so i want to see what answers i get from here..Anyone?
Las Vegas haxxing the casino tables.
Re: Where was God during the Virginia Tech Massacre?
Originally posted by FistOfThe North
I'm asking as a believer of God cause it want to know. I've asked Him, friends and family and haven't got a sensible answer yet so i want to see what answers i get from here..Anyone?
Where was God when Adam an Eve ate fruit from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil plunging this whole world into sin for their disobedience?
Where was God when Cain murdered his brother Abel?
Where was God when Joseph was thrown into a pit by his brothers and sold as a slave?
Where was God when Joseph was sexually harassed everyday by his boss's wife? Joseph refused the woman's advances, telling her that he did not want to sin against God or his master. One day the woman grabbed a piece of Joseph's clothing, but Joseph ran out of the house. The woman was so embarrassed and vindictive that she pretended that Joseph had tried to rape her. She made up this story about how Joseph tried to rape her but then ran out of the house after she screamed, leaving behind an article of his clothing in her hand as proof. Joseph was thrown into prison for two years for a crime he didn't commit.
Where was God when King David (a man after God's own heart) took another man's wife (while this man was out on the battlefield risking his life for David), had sex with her, impregnated her, then sent her back home? Where was God when David tried to cover up his sin by ordering her husband home from the battlefield so that he could sleep with his wife and thus make the man think that the child was his? Where was God when the man refused to sleep with his wife while they were at war so instead he chose to be sleep at David's doorstep (this man was very noble)? David did everything that he could to get this man to go home to his wife. David tried to get him drunk but this too failed to work. Finally, out of desperation David wrote a letter to one of his commanders on the battlefield to put this noble soldier at the forefront of the hottest battle and retreat from him so that he would be killed. But here is the kicker: David gave this letter to this noble soldier to deliver to the commander. This noble soldier didn't even know that he was carrying his own death certificate. This man ended up dying in battle. Where was God?
Where was God when one of King David's son Amnon wanted to have sex with his own sister Tamar so badly that he pretended to be under-the-weather just so she could feed him by hand and serve him? Amnon ended up raping his own sister who begged him not to do that to her, but he refused to stop, being stronger than her he forced her.
Where was God when his own people (the Israelites) were in hard bondage to Pharaoh for 430 years before God delivered through his servant Moses?
Where was God when the disciples were scourged with a cat-o'-nine-tails and then thrown into prison for the crime of preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ? They were doing what God had told them to do.
Where was God when Jesus was betrayed by Judas for thirty pieces of silver? Where was God when His only Begotten Son Jesus was beaten beyond recognition, spit on, mocked, and ridiculed. Where was God when Jesus' back was ripped open into ribbons of flesh by a cat-o'-nine-tails? Where was God when a crown of thorns so razor sharp that the person who made it probably suffered several cuts, was place on His Son's head and hammered down so that it would dig into His scalp, causing deep cuts and bleeding? Where was God when His Son was stripped naked then had his hands and feet impaled by a nails 7 inches long and with diameters of 1 cm ( roughly 3/8 of an inch) to a rugged wooden cross? Where was God while Jesus was being taunted, sneered at, and insulted as He hung on the cross for our sins?
FistOfThe North, have you ever put your hands on anyone or hurt someone either verbally or physically? You have? Why didn't God stop you from doing those things? Why should God stop one person from doing something but not stop you from doing the things that you do? Does that sound fair? No, you may not murder people but murder is just one of many sins that a person could commit. The point is why doesn't God stop us from sinning? If God stops one person from doing something wrong then He ought to stop everyone from doing something wrong or He is being partial. God should stop spouses from committing adultery against one another. God should stop husbands and wives from divorcing one another. God should stop people from getting drunk. God should stop men from viewing porn. God should stop women from gossiping. God should stop people from overeating and from getting overweight. God should stop children from being mischievous and disobedient to their parents. God should stop teenagers from smoking marijuana and getting high on other substances. God should stop men from sexually lusting for other women. God should stop people from lying, stealing, and taking advantage of other people. God should make all men go to church every Sunday (including Super Bowl Sunday), God should make all people get saved, read their Bible, and live holy lives. God should make all people spend less time doing all of the things that they want to do and more time helping less fortunate people. God should make more people missionaries and send them to live and work in other countries. God should make students spend more time studying so that they can get straight A's in school. God should stop men from going to strip clubs. God should stop young boys from having sex. God should stop young girls from gaping their legs and make them remain virgins until they are married. God should stop people from taking things from their jobs without the boss's permission. God should stop people from milking it on their job. There are so many things that we think that God should do, should allow, or should not allow, or should intervene in. But the fact of the matter is God permits us to exercise our free will.
Where was God when...? God is where He has always been, ready to love you, care for you, fight for you, rescue you, comfort you, provide for you, strengthen you, be there with you--but, only if you believe that He will do all of those things. For the eyes of the LORD run to and fro throughout the whole earth, to show Himself strong on behalf of those whose heart is loyal to Him. God will be to you and for you what you are willing to believe for Him to do and be for you. I don't know about you but I confess with my mouth daily that God's angels have charge over me and keep me (and everyone else that I pray for) in all of our ways. That simply means that we have protection from harm that we have no control over.
FistOfThe North, this may not make sense to you or seem just and fair, but God permits suffering for a number of reasons. God permits each of us to exercise our free will. We have all made a choice at one point that adversely affected someone else. We may have cussed someone out, hit someone, lied on someone, talked badly about someone behind their back, set someone up, keyed someone’s car, beat someone up or a number of other things. The point is this: God did not stop you from doing those things did He? God permitted you to be a source of suffering for someone else without refraining you. God will even allow you to do all of these things to someone who has done nothing to provoke you, someone who is innocent. Now, let’s ask the question again. Why does God allow suffering? I think you know the answer now. God allows people to exercise their free will even if in doing so they end up hurting someone else in the process. But we can take comfort in knowing that there are some things that God will protect us from if, by faith, we trust Him to do so. Some things God will do Himself without our conscious awareness or consent, such as in a serious matter that concerns your life. Your life may be in danger and God will rescue you without your having asked Him to.
"Bullshit, Jesus, Those Are Obviously My Footprints" by Jim SteinhauerSorry to have to break it to you, Jesus, but those are obviously my footprints.
Look closely. See how those footprints have that wavy tread pattern on the bottom, just like my docksiders? If they were yours, they'd make a sandal mark, like the footprints next to mine a little farther up the beach when I was going through better times.
See the footprints at the time of my divorce? You'll notice that the sandaled footprints drift off from the docksider ones. They lead to that picnic bench over there, the one with the cigarette butts scattered all over. It appears that in my darkest hour, instead of carrying me, you sat on a stump and had a couple of smokes. Real helpful, Jesus. Real helpful.
Sure, the sandal footprints came back when I got that big job promotion, but right at the point where my son Tommy died, they veer off again. Actually, now that I look again, it seems like there's an unusually large distance between each of the sandal-wearer's footprints around the time of my son's death, as if the person were actually running away.
I'm sorry, Jesus, but your whole story about carrying me during my worst moments just doesn't gibe with the facts. Besides, you'd certainly think a person would remember being carried by the Son of God, right? That's a pretty memorable thing, wouldn't you say? Well, either I've got amnesia, or you're a liar, because I don't recall ever being toted around by the Messiah. The only thing I do remember about my worst moments on the path of life is the horrible feeling of plodding along the cold sand all alone while icy rain fell in sheets and chill winds assailed me.
So thanks, Jesus. Thanks a bunch. You were really there for me when things got tough. *******.
Re: Re: Where was God during the Virginia Tech Massacre?
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Where was God when Adam an Eve ate fruit from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil plunging this whole world into sin for their disobedience?Where was God when Cain murdered his brother Abel?
Where was God when Joseph was thrown into a pit by his brothers and sold as a slave?
Where was God when Joseph was sexually harassed everyday by his boss's wife? Joseph refused the woman's advances, telling her that he did not want to sin against God or his master. One day the woman grabbed a piece of Joseph's clothing, but Joseph ran out of the house. The woman was so embarrassed and vindictive that she pretended that Joseph had tried to rape her. She made up this story about how Joseph tried to rape her but then ran out of the house after she screamed, leaving behind an article of his clothing in her hand as proof. Joseph was thrown into prison for two years for a crime he didn't commit.
Where was God when King David (a man after God's own heart) took another man's wife (while this man was out on the battlefield risking his life for David), had sex with her, impregnated her, then sent her back home? Where was God when David tried to cover up his sin by ordering her husband home from the battlefield so that he could sleep with his wife and thus make the man think that the child was his? Where was God when the man refused to sleep with his wife while they were at war so instead he chose to be sleep at David's doorstep (this man was very noble)? David did everything that he could to get this man to go home to his wife. David tried to get him drunk but this too failed to work. Finally, out of desperation David wrote a letter to one of his commanders on the battlefield to put this noble soldier at the forefront of the hottest battle and retreat from him so that he would be killed. But here is the kicker: David gave this letter to this noble soldier to deliver to the commander. This noble soldier didn't even know that he was carrying his own death certificate. This man ended up dying in battle. Where was God?
Where was God when one of King David's son Amnon wanted to have sex with his own sister Tamar so badly that he pretended to be under-the-weather just so she could feed him by hand and serve him? Amnon ended up raping his own sister who begged him not to do that to her, but he refused to stop, being stronger than her he forced her.
Where was God when his own people (the Israelites) were in hard bondage to Pharaoh for 430 years before God delivered through his servant Moses?
Where was God when the disciples were scourged with a cat-o'-nine-tails and then thrown into prison for the crime of preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ? They were doing what God had told them to do.
Where was God when Jesus was betrayed by Judas for thirty pieces of silver? Where was God when His only Begotten Son Jesus was beaten beyond recognition, spit on, mocked, and ridiculed. Where was God when Jesus' back was ripped open into ribbons of flesh by a cat-o'-nine-tails? Where was God when a crown of thorns so razor sharp that the person who made it probably suffered several cuts, was place on His Son's head and hammered down so that it would dig into His scalp, causing deep cuts and bleeding? Where was God when His Son was stripped naked then had his hands and feet impaled by a nails 7 inches long and with diameters of 1 cm ( roughly 3/8 of an inch) to a rugged wooden cross? Where was God while Jesus was being taunted, sneered at, and insulted as He hung on the cross for our sins?
FistOfThe North, have you [B]ever
put your hands on anyone or hurt someone either verbally or physically? You have? Why didn't God stop you from doing those things? Why should God stop one person from doing something but not stop you from doing the things that you do? Does that sound fair? No, you may not murder people but murder is just one of many sins that a person could commit. The point is why doesn't God stop us from sinning? If God stops one person from doing something wrong then He ought to stop everyone from doing something wrong or He is being partial. God should stop spouses from committing adultery against one another. God should stop husbands and wives from divorcing one another. God should stop people from getting drunk. God should stop men from viewing porn. God should stop women from gossiping. God should stop people from overeating and from getting overweight. God should stop children from being mischievous and disobedient to their parents. God should stop teenagers from smoking marijuana and getting high on other substances. God should stop men from sexually lusting for other women. God should stop people from lying, stealing, and taking advantage of other people. God should make all men go to church every Sunday (including Super Bowl Sunday), God should make all people get saved, read their Bible, and live holy lives. God should make all people spend less time doing all of the things that they want to do and more time helping less fortunate people. God should make more people missionaries and send them to live and work in other countries. God should make students spend more time studying so that they can get straight A's in school. God should stop men from going to strip clubs. God should stop young boys from having sex. God should stop young girls from gaping their legs and make them remain virgins until they are married. God should stop people from taking things from their jobs without the boss's permission. God should stop people from milking it on their job. There are so many things that we think that God should do, should allow, or should not allow, or should intervene in. But the fact of the matter is God permits us to exercise our free will.Where was God when...? God is where He has always been, ready to love you, care for you, fight for you, rescue you, comfort you, provide for you, strengthen you, be there with you--but, only if you believe that He will do all of those things. For the eyes of the LORD run to and fro throughout the whole earth, to show Himself strong on behalf of those whose heart is loyal to Him. God will be to you and for you what you are willing to believe for Him to do and be for you. I don't know about you but I confess with my mouth daily that God's angels have charge over me and keep me (and everyone else that I pray for) in all of our ways. That simply means that we have protection from harm that we have no control over.
FistOfThe North, this may not make sense to you or seem just and fair, but God permits suffering for a number of reasons. God permits each of us to exercise our free will. We have all made a choice at one point that adversely affected someone else. We may have cussed someone out, hit someone, lied on someone, talked badly about someone behind their back, set someone up, keyed someone’s car, beat someone up or a number of other things. The point is this: God did not stop you from doing those things did He? God permitted you to be a source of suffering for someone else without refraining you. God will even allow you to do all of these things to someone who has done nothing to provoke you, someone who is innocent. Now, let’s ask the question again. Why does God allow suffering? I think you know the answer now. God allows people to exercise their free will even if in doing so they end up hurting someone else in the process. But we can take comfort in knowing that there are some things that God will protect us from if, by faith, we trust Him to do so. Some things God will do Himself without our conscious awareness or consent, such as in a serious matter that concerns your life. Your life may be in danger and God will rescue you without your having asked Him to. [/B]