Yeah and we still have not seen it at all despite all the cameras around the Pentagon itself and in public areas like highways. No roof damage although commercial airlines are unable to dip that fast and then go straight, stuff like that.
Scientifically, nothing about the Pentagon strike is possible as they explain it.
Originally posted by chithappens
Scientifically, nothing about the Pentagon strike is possible as they explain it.
wow, you know more about this science than engineers, aviation experts or any other expert in their respective fields. Not least of which are the middle east experts.
😉
maybe the line "The scientific community is wrong because I know better" should throw up some red flags to you.
Originally posted by inimalist
wow, you know more about this science than engineers, aviation experts or any other expert in their respective fields. Not least of which are the middle east experts.😉
maybe the line "The scientific community is wrong because I know better" should throw up some red flags to you.
"The scientific community is wrong because I know better," is waaaaaaaay different than, "Scientifically, nothing about the Pentagon strike is possible as they explain it."
At least quote me correctly. Obviously, I'm saying the story got skewed.
Firstly, father's a mechanical engineer with a background in aerodynamics and it was my initial chose as a major once I started college so I'm not just talking out my ass. In this case, a lot of things do not need scientific explanation, just simple common sense to understand.
When I saw the towers fall live on TV, I remember being real upset because I was thinking half of the surrounding blocks would be destroyed. They fell straight down and before investigating anything scientifically, I knew something was off.
Second, the scientific experts across the nation flip flopped a few times about "how" the towers fell in the months afterwards.
Third, I'm not calling it an inside job. I'm calling the government out is all. If you find a paper passport of one of the terrorist before you find the black box from the plane among the wreckage of the towers, you will easily have me skeptical of everything coming from you afterwards.
Fourth, I read the 9/11 commission crap, the report of how the towers fell from chosen scientists the government chose to do the report (can't remember the name of it; I would paraphrase it but no one would believe me since they think I'm a kook now) which includes explaining that petroleum fire can bend steel without being in a controlled environment (even then, no).
I did not just say that out of nowhere. I'm just saying something has been off from the beginning. Everything is not a conspiracy just because we all do not agree. At this point, it is well known that the government lied. I think the rabbit hole is a little deeper.
Originally posted by Deano
you can see it now actually. its happening now.totatlitarian tiptoe
aaahhh...i see...you mean all that "talking cctv" malarky...its all becoming clear
because despite all these freedoms we've supposedly had taken away...i, and noone i know, has noticed any difference in our lives whatsoever
Originally posted by chithappens
Second, the scientific experts across the nation flip flopped a few times about "how" the towers fell in the months afterwards.
Excuse me...I didn't know media hype being supplanted by a "we did tests and now we are confident" qualifies as a flip flop.
Originally posted by chithappens
Fourth, I read the 9/11 commission crap, the report of how the towers fell from chosen scientists the government chose to do the report (can't remember the name of it; I would paraphrase it but no one would believe me since they think I'm a kook now) which includes explaining that petroleum fire can bend steel without being in a controlled environment (even then, no).
The actual tests and official scientific report were published AFTER the 9-11 commission report. Should they have forgone conclusions? Yes...but you can't critique them for not including something that hadn't been completed yet.
Originally posted by Alliance
Excuse me...I didn't know media hype being supplanted by a "we did tests and now we are confident" qualifies as a flip flop.The actual tests and official scientific report were published AFTER the 9-11 commission report. Should they have forgone conclusions? Yes...but you can't critique them for not including something that hadn't been completed yet.
I would agree with you except scienitific experts don't even say anything about that before checking it out themselves and being certain themselves (it could be wrong but they will report it if they think they are right; this would many a nice amount of scientists made the wrong calculations and deductions). Scientist disagree about stuff all the time.
But if what you said was the case, everyone would be apologizing all the time for mistakes. No one reports stuff without certainty (individually).
And to be clear as to why this is a little more fishy, no one was able to do tests on the parts of the frame that "melted down." The government took all the valuable fragments away that would have showed how exactly the frames of the towers started to bend in ways that have never happened ever in history.
I see what you mean but no "expert" is going to just put his name out there, CERTAINLY not a tragedy like 9/11. It would ruin a career to have a story opposite of the "official" story.
Originally posted by chithappens
I would agree with you except scienitific experts don't even say anything about that before checking it out themselves and being certain themselves (it could be wrong but they will report it if they think they are right; this would many a nice amount of scientists made the wrong calculations and deductions). Scientist disagree about stuff all the time.But if what you said was the case, everyone would be apologizing all the time for mistakes. No one reports stuff without certainty (individually).
And to be clear as to why this is a little more fishy, no one was able to do tests on the parts of the frame that "melted down." The government took all the valuable fragments away that would have showed how exactly the frames of the towers started to bend in ways that have never happened ever in history.
I see what you mean but no "expert" is going to just put his name out there, CERTAINLY not a tragedy like 9/11. It would ruin a career to have a story opposite of the "official" story.
dude, wtf are you talking about?
If any scientist could find factual evidence that supported the 9-11 conspiracy theory, they would be instantly famous and rich. They would most likely win the Nobel Peace Prize, hundreds of other awards, and would have the notoriety of being the only one smart enough to see through the government facade.
Also, popular mechanics, among others, have done independent research into the major claims of the conspiracy theorists and have found them to hold no scientific grounds. All the evidence is suppositional or deductive at best, and for the most part, it focuses on irrelevant facts to try and mislead people to focus on the trees to miss the forest. The greatest example of this is the idea that "fire can't melt steel". Without getting too in depth, the factuality of that statement is irrelevant. Nobody would claim that fire alone brought down the towers, and it is intellectually dishonest to make this straw man.
And seriously, this isn't quantum physics. What happened on 9-11 is not on any scale as complex as the idea of punctuated equilibrium or universal inflation. At the VERY least, to believe that this was a US inside job is to pretty much dismiss the entire field of Middle Eastern Studies.
How many scientists do you know?
Originally posted by inimalist
dude, wtf are you talking about?If any scientist could find factual evidence that supported the 9-11 conspiracy theory, they would be instantly famous and rich. They would most likely win the Nobel Peace Prize, hundreds of other awards, and would have the notoriety of being the only one smart enough to see through the government facade.
The same reason Colin Powell could not say nothing even though he was spewing lies to the UN. He knew that was all bull he was setting up for the Iraq war.
Originally posted by inimalistAlso, popular mechanics, among others, have done independent research into the major claims of the conspiracy theorists and have found them to hold no scientific grounds. All the evidence is suppositional or deductive at best, and for the most part, it focuses on irrelevant facts to try and mislead people to focus on the trees to miss the forest. The greatest example of this is the idea that "fire can't melt steel". Without getting too in depth, the factuality of that statement is irrelevant. Nobody would claim that fire alone brought down the towers, and it is intellectually dishonest to make this straw man.
And seriously, this isn't quantum physics. What happened on 9-11 is not on any scale as complex as the idea of punctuated equilibrium or universal inflation. At the VERY least, to believe that this was a US inside job is to pretty much dismiss the entire field of Middle Eastern Studies.
How many scientists do you know?
I didn't say inside job. I said the government lied.
I know a good amount of scientists. I would not just say it with no real idea of what I was talking about.
Originally posted by chithappens
The same reason Colin Powell could not say nothing even though he was spewing lies to the UN. He knew that was all bull he was setting up for the Iraq war.
How is that remotely the same thing? Powell worked for an ideologically motivated government, scientists are allowed to research whatever they want. Sure they have to get funding, but for tenured or long time profs and scientists, they can get it for generally whatever they want.
Science is, for the most part, independent. Where this line gets blurred is when the science is presented to the public through media sources. The media itself is a terrible place to get any information.
Originally posted by chithappens
I didn't say inside job. I said the government lied.
I agree with you on that. Of course the government lied. However, the scientific and other inquisitively minded individuals also tested the claims of the government. This is why it was revealed that the Bush administration missed years worth of evidence leading up to this attack.
You a making a very common mistake that people with in-group ideologies like this tend to make. You believe that everyone that disagrees with you holds the same viewpoint.
The scientific community and other rational people believe that the government is lying and that conspiracy theories are bogus. Both for the same reasons, that is what the evidence shows.
Originally posted by chithappens
I know a good amount of scientists. I would not just say it with no real idea of what I was talking about.
You are saying that the scientists you know would not break the story if they had irrefutable evidence to prove it?
You think there are engineers, fire and demolition experts out there that can absolutely prove that there are lies in the government story and just sit on them because they are afraid that it will ruin their career?
Really, think, when has exposing a government cover-up ever ruined someone's career?