Originally posted by kiddo44
Im not putting it just on the fact he learned that power but you can not just discount b/c Qui-Gon always had a connection with the "living Force" which is why most likely he was able to learn this and teach it to Yoda and Kenobi.
You're not looking at the facts that are being presented. Since you have had trouble thus far, I'll explain it to you in a manner even you can understand.
Andur. Sunrider. Was. A. Weakling.
Yet,
He. Utilized. The. Ability. Centuries. Before.
Therefore, I'm lead to believe that
Force. Connection. Plays. A. Small. Role.
And that,
It. Means. Very. Little.
And I'm absolutely right, considering what I've brought to the proverbial table thus far. Otherwise known as "proof". Something of which you haven't shown a single sentence to contain.
Who's wrong? The lovely lady with viable evidence? Or the Uma Thurman wannabe with absolutely nothing except baseless assertions?
You still refuse to outright acknowledge, or answer my questions, which are extremely relevant to the conversation. Since you can't, and are making excuses (false ones, to boot), I'll just assume that you know you're wrong, and cannot admit defeat. Either that, or when I tell you that you lack intelligence, I'll have hit the nail on the head.
And i would never put any PT jedi as the best,outside of Qui-Gon, b/c of their serving Sidious and the republic for so long and not questioning anything.
Originally posted by Advent
No one even so much as knew Darth Sidious had been a Sith Lord, it's not like he waltzed into the Council chambers, and declared war. He strategically manipulated the Republic, and the Jedi.
Originally posted by jollyjim311
Yeah, Kiddo, notice ho Kenobi and Yoda continued to support the system after they found out it was corrupt.Oh wait! No they didn't, they tried to kill the two most important figures.
Just because Sidious disguised his plans perfectly doesn't mean that Yoda or Obi Wan, or any Jedi in the Clone Wars was ignorant. They were just supporting a system that they thought worked, and would prefer the Galaxy no to be run by Sith, ironically (Meaning Dooku). The battles against the CIS had to happen.
Double QED.
If you think Yoda fine, that is a very easy thing to say.
Already addressed in a previous post, see below.
The reason i don't address all your points b/c your posts are ridiculously long rhetoric of your opinion.
Originally posted by Advent
Will you do me a favor, and explain to me how who's the teacher, and who's the learner correlates into this discussion? Oh? What's that? There is no relevant relation?It doesn't matter if Qui-Gon was the one who taught Yoda, because in the end, he still learned it. More importantly, again, one ability does [b]not
put character x over character y. Especially in this case, where character y has been taught the skill we're (well, I'm) debating about.By your absurd logic, anyone who educated another being with a certain technique is greater than the one who they taught it to. Which is fallacious, and untrue, therefore you have no point.
No one even so much as knew Darth Sidious had been a Sith Lord, it's not like he waltzed into the Council chambers, and declared war. He strategically manipulated the Republic, and the Jedi.
This has absolutely no bearing on anything in terms of being a Jedi; whether in regards to power, or what have you.
You're not acknowledging the facts of which I'm bringing forth. It does not matter in the least bit whether Qui-Gon was the first to discover it in the prequel era, or ever, because it has no bearing on personal power. Let's take another force power: Force light. Yaddle knows this skill, yet Yoda doesn't. Is Yaddle above Yoda? Hell no.
For the sake of the argument, I'm merely going to assume that we're talking about who represents the Jedi best, or something of the sort. Now, why is Qui-Gon above say, Andur Sunrider? Andur was able to achieve the same state of oneness with the Force that Qui-Gon did, yet he came centuries before your god did.
How does becoming a Force ghost make him a 'better' Jedi than Yoda? Explain this to me, which you've yet to do.
Non sequiturs are now acceptable as responses?
That doesn't follow at all. Qui-Gon Jinn learned a technique, that was eventually taught to Yoda, anyhow. It perhaps would hold merit, had Yoda not been able to successfully learn such a power, but he did. Even then, I retract my statement, because a single skill does not put one being over another. Is Kyle Katarn more powerful than Luke Skywalker, because of the exotic variaty of force powers he has? No, he's not. For your words to be correct, that would have to be true. Since it isn't, they're not.
That's besides the fact that a weakling, who was killed by a handful of weak mercenaries, was able to grasp the same ability. So, that alone destroys this "point". Try again.
In regards to his power? None, but that wasn't what I was saying.
In regards to him being the "definition"? A lot. Janus, for one (the real one). Me, for second. And those two opinions account for a lot.
He did what even Yoda, Vodo, and many other venerable and respected Jedi could not do, he let go of his attachments. He was arguably the most humble Jedi of the entire Order, and strongly upheld the code itself. He was one of the most, if not the most, acceptable candidate for being what it means to be a Jedi. Which really has little to nothing at all to do with your prowess in battle.
Would you take a look at what you actually wrote? You're basing Qui-Gon's higher rank because he was defiant, and "questioned things", whereas Yoda, and company followed the Republic, even though they were "corrupt"? Hint: Qui-Gon still plead his allegiance to the Republic, and served the Jedi, and still Anakin always was uncertain about the Jedi way, is he now the "epitome of a Jedi"?
Short answer: No.
Your logic is extremely faulty. Try again.[/B]
The only thing that even so much as held an opinion behind it was proclaiming Obi-Wan the "definition of a Jedi", yet again, it was a statement made with reason, and proof to support it. Everything else is either solid fact, logically deduced, or an inquiry that answers itself (thusly defeating the corresponding point made by you) with much viable evidence put behind it.
When I call you out on being wrong, point blank, you are. It's only 'long', because I'm trying to explain exactly why you're points are invalid, or incorrect.
Im not going to read a book on how you think Yoda is the greatest
Originally posted by Advent
And when did I ever proclaim Yoda as the second strongest Jedi? I didn't, so please don't twist what I'm arguing, kid.You'll notice that I'm only entertaining your posts in regards to Qui-Gon being more qualified than Yoda (or everyone, rather) based solely on one power, not that Yoda is undeniably the 'Second best Jedi', or anything of the sort.
Nice to know that you cannot even so much as comprehend basic messages. And somehow, I'm the 'kid', kiddo.
and you are like talking to a little kid b/c you keep just repeating yourself and insulting. so pathetic.
Really, you're the only one who's pathetic here. Being able to debate properly is not your forte, stick to Tarantino movies, Beatrix.
Now, there's a reason why I'm constantly saying the same things over and over, it's simple: because you didn't refute them the first time. You did not address all of my points the first time, in fact, you only responded to two of them with one liners. Everything I say is relevant, and acts as a separate point (unless repeated in the same form). Whereas your posts are riddled with irrelevant bullshit, and you still refuse to recognize valid points.
Please try, and not make yourself look more idiotic than you already do. I mean, first you claimed that the TC wasn't talking about 'power', when I showed you he was. So now you're attempting to degrade my argument into something it's not, even when we have a written account of everything that's been discussed?
I'll go with kiddo44 is a moron for $500, Alex.
Oh! Boohoo, I insulted you. Get over it, because they are well deserved, and justified. You may have had a point had I just gone off on a shit talking rampage, but I haven't, and I always directly address points. Insults are secondary, as much is apparent.