Originally posted by Darth Sexy
He's not the most hated at all, he's been proven to not be the best at all.
Yes he is, given he's on par with the likes of Exar and Sidious, yet people act like he'd lose to people like Mace and Anakin despite me making a much better case for Bane then anyone can make for whoever he's up against each time.
Mace would beat Bane, now shut it. Bane would most definitely put up a a fight, but when Mace uses Vaapad, he'll break right through Bane's defences, and then kill him with Shattepoint. Seeing as how Mace stopped hundreds of tons or rocks that had created an avalanche, I 'd say he has the raw force abilities to hold off Bane's attacks, plus most can just be reflected with Vaapad. Anyway, back on topic:
Team Two wins.
No, Mace wouldn't. What you're essentially arguing with this whole Shatterpoint issue is that because it grants him advantages against darksiders, and Bane is a darksider, he therefore beats Bane. The thing is, you can't quantify the advantages that it gives, all you can say is that it grants him an unknown degree of advantages. Shatterpoint, as I've said many times before, only grants Mace the ability to detect weaknesses, it doesn't grant him the capabilities to capitalise on them. And IIRC, it took him some time to find Depa's shatterpoint, as well as Kar's, so I'd assume that it's more difficult for Mace to find them in moving situations rather than still. And what you just said about Mace is pretty nice, I'll admit (though could I have proof for those figures?), but it hardly compares to the stuff that Bane has done imho, namely moving a moon. Dxun is a planetoid capable of sustaining its own life, and is almost certainly going to weigh more than our own dead moon, which masses in at, technically speaking, seventy thousand billion billion kilograms (credit for the figures goes to Ashandarei). So what Mace did really isn't comparable in the least.
Let's make sure this is clear: Vaapad is, firstly, "the deadliest" of the lightsaber forms - Bane has no knowledge or skill in that department, nor will he know how to defend against it. And, anyone who has read Path of Destruction knows how great an advantage this would be against Bane - who simply freaks out when confronted with something he isn't familiar with. Furthermore, it also means that it is a "better" form than anything Bane has. Vaapad and Shatterpoint also have the added advantages of turning the dark side's strength into a "weapon of the light" - which Mace can thus use. Shatterpoint (which Bane is very much susceptible to) will allow Mace to detect weaknesses and flaws in his armor or in his general being, and that will allow Mace to capitalize upon it. If he can defeat "the greatest master of evil ever to use Sith power", he can surely defeat Bane. In a lightsaber duel, at least.
Originally posted by Gideon
Let's make sure this is clear: Vaapad is, firstly, "the deadliest" of the lightsaber forms - Bane has no knowledge or skill in that department, nor will he know how to defend against it. And, anyone who has read Path of Destruction knows how great an advantage this would be against Bane - who simply freaks out when confronted with something he isn't familiar with. Furthermore, it also means that it is a "better" form than anything Bane has. Vaapad and Shatterpoint also have the added advantages of turning the dark side's strength into a "weapon of the light" - which Mace can thus use. Shatterpoint (which Bane is very much susceptible to) will allow Mace to detect weaknesses and flaws in his armor or in his general being, and that will allow Mace to capitalize upon it. If he can defeat "the greatest master of evil ever to use Sith power", he can surely defeat Bane. In a lightsaber duel, at least.
Hey, Gideon, I've heard that Path of Destruction is really good. Do you know any website were I can read it?
Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
No, Mace wouldn't. What you're essentially arguing with this whole Shatterpoint issue is that because it grants him advantages against darksiders, and Bane is a darksider, he therefore beats Bane. The thing is, you can't quantify the advantages that it gives, all you can say is that it grants him an unknown degree of advantages. Shatterpoint, as I've said many times before, only grants Mace the ability to detect weaknesses, it doesn't grant him the capabilities to capitalise on them. And IIRC, it took him some time to find Depa's shatterpoint, as well as Kar's, so I'd assume that it's more difficult for Mace to find them in moving situations rather than still. And what you just said about Mace is pretty nice, I'll admit (though could I have proof for those figures?), but it hardly compares to the stuff that Bane has done imho, namely moving a moon. Dxun is a planetoid capable of sustaining its own life, and is almost certainly going to weigh more than our own dead moon, which masses in at, technically speaking, seventy thousand billion billion kilograms (credit for the figures goes to Ashandarei). So what Mace did really isn't comparable in the least.
I never said any of that, but I will now. Shatterpoint is a universal advantage, not limited to darsiders or even combat situations. I'll go into more detail of what I should have said:
Mace uses Vaapad, a style completely alien to Bane and described as the "deadliest of all" forms and "unpredictable." When Kas'im brought a new style against Bane, Bane was immediately put on the defensive. Also, Vaapad allows Mace to draw from his opponents well of power. This means Mace will become faster as Bane does so, like he did in ROTS against Palpatine. This is on top on him already being able to move at speeds where he was "invisible" and even Anakin couldn't see him while he was fighting. Knowing you, you'll try to compare that with Bane's battle with Sirak where Bane performed a move that the force sensitives in the room didn't visually keep up with. The differences are that Bane had been storing up energy, and released it in a single attack that people didn't see coming, as where Mace's whole fight was visually incomprehensible by even Anakin, while he was paying attention.
I have yet to bring up Shatterpint. Mace could break a diamond with a tap of his finger. A full powered swing could do wonders. Shatterpoint is just the ability to negate Bane's armor.
With Vaapad over whelming Bane, Mace would just feel out for a Shatterpoint. Once he finds it, Bane is done for.
Also, Mace punched through super battle droids, is on par with Yoda and beat Sidious in a lightsaber battle.
EDIT:Gideon already basically said what I did. Oh well, I'm keeping it.
Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Yes he is, given he's on par with the likes of Exar and Sidious, yet people act like he'd lose to people like Mace and Anakin despite me making a much better case for Bane then anyone can make for whoever he's up against each time.
Except he's NOT on par with Sidious and Exar Kun just because you're a fanboy. You've been disproven everytime yet you still persist with nonsense. Way to go Noobaris. And you've made a better case for Bane than anyone can for anyone else? As one of the worst debaters on this forum, you are very delusional. It's almost funny.
Originally posted by jollyjim311
even Anakin couldn't see him while he was fighting. As where Mace's whole fight was visually incomprehensible by even Anakin, while he was paying attention.
LMAO, jollyjim! It appears that you and Nebaris share something in common. You both use trumped evidence.
I don't see how Anakin couldn't have seen Mace Windu considering by the time he waltzes in, Mace is walking towards Sidious at the pace of a slug. Darth Sidious had already been backed into a corner at that point, as shown in the highest form of canon. The description in the novelization is invalid.
That doesn't necessarily disprove other sources which may comment on Mace's or Sidious' speed, though, merely pointing out that that's not true in the least bit.
I see no reason why Nihilus couldn't kill Bane with a Force Drain. Traya could beat Malak. Now, TOTJ Sidious vs. Revan is close, both of their strong points are the Force, where they aren't quite as good with a saber. That would be close, I'm kinda leaning towards Palaptine, though. Even if Revan would win, though, Malak and Bane go down first, then Revan gets wtf pwnd.
Instead of Malak, it should have been Kun, or Kas'im, yeah.