Originally posted by darthsith19
I'm sure that's not what he meant. He means no matter what Plo, Depa and Saesee wouldn't get any hits in on Yoda, even if they had an opportunity to, because it's a non-real combat situation - they weren't really trying to hurt Yoda. If, during the demonstration, one of them had an opportunity to hurt Yoda they still wouldn't be able to, because their not trying to hurt Yoda. That's the point of the demonstration, and what Apollo Cloud said made perfect sense. I believe that you are the one in need of thinking about what you say before you say them. 😐
How do you know what they are and are not trying to do? If they're swinging at him with their lightsabers requiring him to move out of the way to avoid them because if he didn't he'd killed or at least hurt then its real. You cant slip up when it comes to lightsabers. And if you mean that they were not attempting to hit Yoda then that also makes no sense as the demonstration would be completely pointless. It'd look kinda ridiculous if they were just swinging at completely random and Yoda was going out of his way to get in the way of the saber for the sole purpose of getting out of the way.
Originally posted by darthsith19
I'm sure that's not what he meant. He means no matter what Plo, Depa and Saesee wouldn't get any hits in on Yoda, even if they had an opportunity to, because it's a non-real combat situation - they weren't really trying to hurt Yoda. If, during the demonstration, one of them had an opportunity to hurt Yoda they still wouldn't be able to, because their not trying to hurt Yoda. That's the point of the demonstration, and what Apollo Cloud said made perfect sense. I believe that you are the one in need of thinking about what you say before you say them. 😐
Well, now that's just completely stupid. I own Shadow Hunter and the point of the lesson was to emphasize the importance of speed and agility to the ones who observed it. If the demonstration was "choreographed" and the Council members held restraint, it would completely undermine the lesson itself.
How do you know what they are and are not trying to do? If they're swinging at him with their lightsabers requiring him to move out of the way to avoid them because if he didn't he'd killed or at least hurt then its real. You cant slip up when it comes to lightsabers. And if you mean that they were not attempting to hit Yoda then that also makes no sense as the demonstration would be completely pointless. It'd look kinda ridiculous if they were just swinging at completely random and Yoda was going out of his way to get in the way of the saber for the sole purpose of getting out of the way.
Well, now that's just completely stupid. I own Shadow Hunter and the point of the lesson was to emphasize the importance of speed and agility to the ones who observed it. If the demonstration was "choreographed" and the Council members held restraint, it would completely undermine the lesson itself.
Say what? The point of the lesson was to emphasize the importance of speed in the context of a combat-oriented situation. If Yoda - or any of the Councilmen - restrained themselves, it would totally undermine the point. If that were the case, the demonstration [Speed enabling you to evade powerful enemies] would be utterly false, and tantamount to deception. There is no reason to believe that Yoda or the Council would be so reckless and duplicitous as to restrain themselves and take such a wild risk of teaching their students something that isn't possible.
Originally posted by Gideon
Say what? The point of the lesson was to emphasize the importance of speed in the context of a combat-oriented situation. If Yoda - or any of the Councilmen - restrained themselves, it would totally undermine the point. If that were the case, the demonstration [Speed enabling you to evade powerful enemies] would be utterly false, and tantamount to deception. There is no reason to believe that Yoda or the Council would be so reckless and duplicitous as to restrain themselves and take such a wild risk of teaching their students something that isn't possible.
How would it undermine the point as long as the Younglings thought that it was real?
Because the point of the exercise was combat related. Deceiving them [especially 'Younglings'] would essentially be arming them with a false lesson: Yoda's speed is capable of evading three powerful Jedi masters. If that isn't true, I don't see why Yoda or the others would demonstrate such a thing, since the Jedi philosophy does not rely on half-truths, exaggeration, or deception.
And again, I didn't say that they did hold back, only that they may have held back. Thus is can't really be used as proof.
Lmao, if that's all you've got, then yes it does count. You must provide proof that they weren't restraining themselves before this thing can be dismissed.
Because the point of the exercise was combat related. Deceiving them [especially 'Younglings'] would essentially be arming them with a false lesson: Yoda's speed is capable of evading three powerful Jedi masters. If that isn't true, I don't see why Yoda or the others would demonstrate such a thing, since the Jedi philosophy does not rely on half-truths, exaggeration, or deception.
Originally posted by darthsith19
How would deceiving them be arming them with a false lesson? You can use the Force to dodge attacks, that was the point of the demonstration, so Yoda could have just gone to extreme amounts to build up their confidence, they will do better if they have high-esteem. So by a false demonstration they would be teaching the Younglings that you can dodge attacks with the Force, because that's what the Youngligns would believe after viewing the demonstration. So the same point would be taught either way.
First, that is ridiculous: true Jedi [like Yoda] - unlike the Sith - don't operate through deception and exaggeration of their abilities. If the Council members restrained themselves during the demonstration, it would be tantamount to deception, which betrays not only the exercise itself, but also the principles of the Jedi Order. These are Younglings, impressionable, young kids. These lessons are given to educate them. The message is that the Force is capable of allowing wielders the speed to evade attacks made by opponents, and someone who is entrenched in the Force as Yoda is capable of evading the attacks of three very powerful and capable duelists. If the Council members weren't trying, the fundamentals of the lesson would be pointless, and they would have been not only exaggerating their abilities, but lying to the Younglings in the process in a demonstration that was supposed to educate them.
Second, you don't have proof that the Council members were holding back, like you asserted. Thus, the example can still be used as proof, and this argument is over.
Originally posted by Gideon
If that isn't true, I don't see why Yoda or the others would demonstrate such a thing, since the Jedi philosophy does not rely on half-truths, exaggeration, or deception.
"Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil, helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi knights. He betrayed and murdered your father."
Yea, no half-truths there, lol. J/k.
DS - it would be a false lesson if it were set up because that would mean that none were confident in Yoda's ability to properly utilize force to dodge the attack; and if done like that - but portrayed to the younglings as real - they would think it would still work, when in reality it wouldn't. If the grandmaster of the Jedi council couldn't do it with 3 masters going all out, then a lesser padawan could never do it in a real fight. Get it?
Damn it Gideon posted first, ah well...yes, the onus is on you to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that they were holding back. Your opinion on the matter means dick. There is nothing to even suggest that they were holding back, therefore proof, therefore over (as Gideon has already said 😛)