Sandman vs. Gaara

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Except Sandman isn't even made out of sand.... just a similar substance. And he has never shown the ability to control sand that is sentient and has a mind of its own. Not to mention that there would be no way to hurt him, Sandman can just reform, while Gaara is vulnerable flesh and blood that can tire and be killed.

It is similar enough to sand that it won't make a difference (which is why he can absorb sand into his body bulk up and replace lost parts). Gaara can control sand once he mixes his chakra with it. He can take control of Flints body and cause him to disperse and simply prevent him from reforming... he could even mix Flint with blood soaked sand in his gourd and it would all be over.

Way to make tons of unsupported assertions. You assume his control is better even though he has to consciously infuse the sand with his chakra while Sandman just has to think to control it, and Sandman can control its density and create projectiles with more variety, etc. You assume that Sandman can't simply reform when his chakra runs out, or just impale him. There is nothing Gaara can do to hurt Sandman.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Way to make tons of unsupported assertions. You assume his control is better even though he has to consciously infuse the sand with his chakra while Sandman just has to think to control it, and Sandman can control its density and create projectiles with more variety, etc. You assume that Sandman can't simply reform when his chakra runs out, or just impale him. There is nothing Gaara can do to hurt Sandman.

More variety? They guy turns his hands into hammers! You call the mayor about a medal and I'll see what I can do about the parade. Please don't make me laugh; Gaara uses his sand to fly and make clones for Christ's sake. And his sand shield is so dense, so compact that the only thing that can penetrate it is the Chidori... and even that is because in Naruto Earth based chakra has an elemental weakness to Lightening based chakra.

You don't think Gaara can control Flint... because Flint is in control of his own body? Do you have no idea how Naruto works? I guess the Kagemane no Jutsu doesn't work on people because they are in control of their own bodies... oh... wait. 🙄 You can't combat chakra with brute strength, you need a stronger chakra.... thats just how it is. Flints body is made up of the one material that Gaara's chakra type is compatible with. Gaara can control him, the same way Shikamaru can control anyone with a Shadow. End of story.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
You can't combat chakra with brute strength, you need a stronger chakra.... thats just how it is.

And this is why cross medium debates don't work.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
[B]More variety? They guy turns his hands into hammers!

And can create tendrils, bullets, shields, sinkholes, sandstorms, clouds, and a bunch of other stuff.

You call the mayor about a medal and I'll see what I can do about the parade. Please don't make me laugh; Gaara uses his sand to fly and make clones for Christ's sake. And his sand shield is so dense, so compact that the only thing that can penetrate it is the Chidori... and even that is because in Naruto Earth based chakra has an elemental weakness to Lightening based chakra.

More bullshit - Lee and Gai punched through it, Kimimaru did too, and Deidara blasted through it with his explosives.

You don't think Gaara can control Flint... because Flint is in control of his own body? Do you have no idea how Naruto works? I guess the Kagemane no Jutsu doesn't work on people because they are in control of their own bodies... oh... wait.

Complete red herring. That's a completely different skill that has absolutely nothing to do with Gaara's technique. Sandman controls his own body instinctively without having to use chakra or any other kind of crap, and demonstrates better control (he can even control it when it has turned to glass). Show me Gaara controlling a mass of living, sentient sand that is actively resisting him and can do such things and I'll believe you. Besides, as I explained, he's not even made of real side, he's a sand - like substance.

You can't combat chakra with brute strength, you need a stronger chakra.... thats just how it is.

No - limits fallacy. Concession accepted.

Flints body is made up of the one material that Gaara's chakra type is compatible with. Gaara can control him, the same way Shikamaru can control anyone with a Shadow. End of story.

Wrong. Shikamaru physically restrains someone's body with his jutsu, Gaara sends his chakra into the sand to control it from inside. Won't work if that sand is alive (and not even sand in the first place) and has class 80 strength and fighting against him. He can't hurt Sandman in any way, he'll run out of chakra, and he'll die.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
And this is why cross medium debates don't work.

Yes they do, you just have to recognize bullshit when you see it. He's using a no - limits fallacy, instead of actually comparing what has been accomplished by various characters/techniques/entities and judging from that.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
And can create tendrils, bullets, shields, sinkholes, sandstorms, clouds, and a bunch of other stuff.

More bullshit - Lee and Gai punched through it, Kimimaru did too, and Deidara blasted through it with his explosives.

Complete red herring. That's a completely different skill that has absolutely nothing to do with Gaara's technique. Sandman controls his own body instinctively without having to use chakra or any other kind of crap, and demonstrates better control (he can even control it when it has turned to glass). Show me Gaara controlling a mass of living, sentient sand that is actively resisting him and can do such things and I'll believe you. Besides, as I explained, he's not even made of real side, he's a sand - like substance.

No - limits fallacy. Concession accepted.

Wrong. Shikamaru physically restrains someone's body with his jutsu, Gaara sends his chakra into the sand to control it from inside. Won't work if that sand is alive (and not even sand in the first place) and has class 80 strength and fighting against him. He can't hurt Sandman in any way, he'll run out of chakra, and he'll die.

If you are trying to show that Sandman is more versatile the Gaara it may be helpful to give some examples of things Gaara hasn't done himself... just a thought.

Gai and Lee never punched through Gaara's sand... that was the whole reason he needed to remove his weights and open the seals. He had to be fast enough to get ahead of Gaara's sand because he was unable to penetrate it... did you even read the manga?

They work essentially the same. Shika sends his chakra into shadows and controls them, Gaara sends his chakra in to sand and controls it. The difference is that one is sand and the other is shadow.

The fact that Flint is conscious is irrelevant, the guy is made of sand. If Gaara's power was just some sort of Tetrakinesis/Geokinesis I might be willing to let you get away will saying Gaara would be unable to control Flint but that isn't the case. Gaara's ability works by mixing his chakra into the sand. He controls the chakra, so he controls the sand. Sandman has no defence. He can't dispel the chakra and he can't combat it. Even if it came down to a battle of will power over who controlled the sand... do you think Sandman would win? Gaara is simply more power and he has greater control.

Gaara for 2 reasons
1) Gaara controls sand, Sandman is made of sand, and can only control the sand that makes up his body.
2) Gaara's powers come from a demon, hence they are magic in nature. Sandman is a mutation like Spiderman or the Hulk. Magic>>Mutation.

Originally posted by Tassadar
Gaara's powers come from a demon, hence they are magic in nature. Sandman is a mutation like Spiderman or the Hulk. Magic>>Mutation.

Yeah because Jaspers is tottaly below Zatanna.

Since no one is giving any examples here, i will give you my exmaples of why Sandman will lose to Gaara, and why Gaara will beable to control him

Gaara can convert anything that is similar to sand, minerals, rocks etc, INTO his OWN sand and he can control it, dont understimate this guys chakra control, its POWERFUL, he gets it from shukaku demon.

Scenario: 13 year old pre-chuunin Gaara vs Kimmimaro in a field

Gaara: "You're the foolish one, it doesnt take any effort to create sand from he ground"
Rock lee: "I see... He turns the rocks and minerals underground into additional sand"

Showing Gaara's strength, remember, this is 13 year old Gaara

Able to shift the whole landscape

And here is Kazekage Gaara

and has class 80 strength and fighting against him

so what class 80 strength, Gaara is lifting a huge amount volume of sand most likely heavier then the whole village itself, class 80 strength is nothing to this

Gaara will just toss Sandman into a lake or somethin, anyway i dont see Sandman being able to get through Gaara's absolute defense either

He does that by grinding them into sand with his own sand. That sand isn't alive and fighting back against him, able to increase its own density to be as hard as diamond or reform. You forget that Gaara tires after only a few minutes of fighting, when he will be completely vulnerable and Sandman can kill him, whereas there is absolutely nothing he can do to hurt Sandman whatsoever.

What do u mean fighting against him? Like punching back at the sand? Nah that wont work, Sandman will get swept away, and into a lake or something.

When has gaara ever tired from only a few minutes of fighting? The fight against kimmimaro was like 2 full non interrupted episodes which is a hella long time in anime time, the fight against deidara, they fought until the sun was almost up

Yeah, you forget that the fights aren't uninterrupted, they constantly cut to scenes of other things going on at the same time. Gaara only had the time to use 3 - 4 attacks and 2 last - ditch lines of defense before he was exhausted. As for Deidara, the fight started near dawn anyway.

1. Those who claim that magic is more powerful than mutations, are wrong. MJJ, Brian Braddock, Franklin Richards. They're all above magic users. Thus, the magic over mutation logic fails.

2. Gaara's control over sand, meh. He can throw, hurl and crush. He doesn't have that much fine control. Sandman can reform himself no matter what and can absorb sand. He has full control over the sand he absorbs, its density and it's form. Which means that he can touch Gaara's shield and he'll be able to control it's form and density. That's means, Gaara's shield go bye bye.

3. Gaara's chakra is limited at best. He runs it out very quickly. Sandman can keep on going as long as he feels like.

4. If Gaara has his sand armor on, Sandman can touch it and gain complete control. Which means that he can crush Gaara with his own sand.

5. Those who say that Sandman can't penetrate Gaara's ultimate defense are right. However, he can wait the 5 minutes it takes for Gaara to go out of chakra.

6. Gaara can blow Sandman away, rip him apart, crush him, remove any limb he wishes to and Sandman can still reform.

7. Gaara cannot regenerate any limbs or anything like that. He's a feeble little boy, who's durability is far below the average shinobi.

8. Kimimaro would've killed him if he hadn't been sick.

9. Deidara owned Gaara.

10. Gaara's demon has been taken by Akatsuki.

If Gaara tires the sand automatically protects him. Sandman does not have Rock Lee speed, so how is he going to get around the sand that protects Gaara. Gaara will just use the Sandman's own sand and crush his internal organs with the Sand Coffin. If the Racoon Demon awakes in Gaara, that's all she wrote.

Originally posted by llagrok
1. Those who claim that magic is more powerful than mutations, are wrong. MJJ, Brian Braddock, Franklin Richards. They're all above magic users. Thus, the magic over mutation logic fails.

2. Gaara's control over sand, meh. He can throw, hurl and crush. He doesn't have that much fine control. Sandman can reform himself no matter what and can absorb sand. He has full control over the sand he absorbs, its density and it's form. Which means that he can touch Gaara's shield and he'll be able to control it's form and density. That's means, Gaara's shield go bye bye.

3. Gaara's chakra is limited at best. He runs it out very quickly. Sandman can keep on going as long as he feels like.

4. If Gaara has his sand armor on, Sandman can touch it and gain complete control. Which means that he can crush Gaara with his own sand.

5. Those who say that Sandman can't penetrate Gaara's ultimate defense are right. However, he can wait the 5 minutes it takes for Gaara to go out of chakra.

6. Gaara can blow Sandman away, rip him apart, crush him, remove any limb he wishes to and Sandman can still reform.

7. Gaara cannot regenerate any limbs or anything like that. He's a feeble little boy, who's durability is far below the average shinobi.

8. Kimimaro would've killed him if he hadn't been sick.

9. Deidara owned Gaara.

10. Gaara's demon has been taken by Akatsuki.

Deidara owned him!!! What's fight did you watch? 😕

Originally posted by jmcnasty
If Gaara tires the sand automatically protects him. Sandman does not have Rock Lee speed, so how is he going to get around the sand that protects Gaara. Gaara will just use the Sandman's own sand and crush his internal organs with the Sand Coffin. If the Racoon Demon awakes in Gaara, that's all she wrote.

1. No demon or any sort of control mate 🙂

2. Sandman absorbs sand. You think he can't absorb that little gourd Gaara carries around?

In my opinion it all comes down to who's will is stronger. However, Sandman doesn't have any Chakra, so this fight is just stupid.

Originally posted by jmcnasty
Deidara owned him!!! What's fight did you watch? 😕

I both watched and read the one where Gaara ended up unconscious.

Originally posted by llagrok
1. No demon or any sort of control mate 🙂

2. Sandman absorbs sand. You think he can't absorb that little gourd Gaara carries around?

In my opinion it all comes down to who's will is stronger. However, Sandman doesn't have any Chakra, so this fight is just stupid.

Didn't say I was using the post Skipped Gaara. Even if Sandman absorbs the sand, Gaara chakra is still missed with it, meaning that Sandman is just going to become a puppet that Gaara can control.

Originally posted by llagrok
I both watched and read the one where Gaara ended up unconscious.

Doesn't mean he got owned. I saw Gaara being distracted by a clay bomb that would have destroyed his village and Deidara getting the upper hand. I only saw Deidara sneak a few spider bombs into Gaara's sand. That's far from getting owned.