Darth Maul runs a short Gauntlet.

Started by darthsith192 pages
darthsith19 Arm-Wrestler

Anakin was above TPM OB1, and the same could be said about OB1 compared to QGJ. And where did you get that Maul wasn't at full strength? Whats the source?

Anakin is barely above TPM Kenobi, while Jinn is solidly above AOTC Kenobi - Jinn was the best swordsman Kenobi has ever seen, he rivaled Mace Windu, he was so strong with the Force that he taught himself how to live after death, and the Jedi who trained him with a lightsaber said that he was the best swordsman that he's seen in 400 years. What has Kenobi done that makes him betetr than that, and don't say beating Maul cause we all know that was all luck there.

The New Essential Guide to Characters says that Maul wasn't at his full strength.

I wouldn't say definitely, more like 50/50.

Remember, he gets full rest; if you disagree, a comment in the Asajj vs. Maul thread would be nice, as I provided a shit load of proof why Maul would beat her in there,

How the hell do you figure she's above Anakin?? He didn't go, in 5 months time, from being under Ventress, to above Dooku. That would be a ridiculous jump in power. You'd have to prove that, and if she is even remotely close to Anakin at this point (let alone above him) then Maul is nowhere near that level and wouldn't beat her either. Anakin takes this one, with some difficulty, but not nearly as much as he had with OB1.

Every time she fight Anakin she is beating him until he uses the Dark Side - therefor she is above Anakin, when he's not using the Dark Side. And 6 months, not 5, and he was hardly above Dooku when not in "teh zone". If Maul is nowhere near Anakin's level yet is, according to you, on par with ventress then how come Asajj ever is ebating Anakin in a duel ever? That's really poor logic there.
Mace's style is still the deadliest, and Mace is faster than Maul. I see Maul getting thrashed here.

Again, since you completely disregarded my proof, Qui-Gon rivals Mace and a tired Maul beat Qui-Gon in 30 seconds. Anoon Bondara is above Mace with lightsabers, and Maul beat her, too. So unless there's some other source that puts TPM Mace above Maul, then you're wrong.
DS, i don't know how you figure this one at all, how is Asajj>Anakin, here, she wasn't greater than him right after AOTC, when he beat her, and over 2 years later she passes him?? Maul would have no chance here at all.

The last fight Asajj has with Anakin, a month before Obsession, she is winning until he uses the Dark Side. Obsession Asajj would be as strong or stronger than she was then, so Anakin couldn't beat her, unless he used the Dark Side. Right after AOTC Asajj and Anakin are pretty equal, until Anakin uses the Dark Side, and Asajj increased during the Clone Wars, too, y'know.

Darth Subjekt The beginning of the end.

it doesn't matter if he uses "teh d@rk s!d3!!!" its still him, and she still lost. And correcting me by a month's time isnt enough to even warrant a significant power gap.

Just cause he was the best that Kenobi had ever seen doesn't mean shit. Well Kenobi has seen Yoda, does that mean that QGJ is above Yoda? No, and, "Thats really poor logic there."

If Maul is nowhere near Anakin's level yet is, according to you, on par with ventress then how come Asajj ever is ebating Anakin in a duel ever? That's really poor logic there.

First off, that sentence barely makes sense, so it's hard to take it seriously. I think people are confusing this "zone" of Anakin's with him not just being in a rage-filled state. Of everything I've seen and read, I don't recall it saying "Once in the uber zone, Anakin is unstoppable!" No. He was just in control of his emotions and not being blinded by rage. And if that requires utilizing the dark side, so be it. Mace uses the dark side every time he fights, big deal...they get the job done.

Again, since you completely disregarded my proof, Qui-Gon rivals Mace and a tired Maul beat Qui-Gon in 30 seconds. Anoon Bondara is above Mace with lightsabers, and Maul beat her, too. So unless there's some other source that puts TPM Mace above Maul, then you're wrong.
Again, you A>B>C arguments don't mean shit. Example: Anakin pwned Dooku, OB1 beat Anakin, Dook pwned OB1....see how that doesn't work? As far as Anoon, her saber skills were second to none, but was still noted as only "one of" the best fighters in the order, not the best. So like i said before, you can have all the skill and memorize all the sequences you want, but if you cant put it all together and utilize it, it doesn't mean shit. To be honest I didn't notice that it said TPM Mace, so I'll change my answer to him just winning, but Mace still has incredible speed and a style thats completely foreign to Maul, so i still think he loses.

If anything, I could say despite the wins Maul has, he could very easily lose alot of these fights due to his own hubris and stupidity. He could have changed the whole SW story if he would have been smart and killed OB1 when he had, but he's stupid...so he lost...and died. And it is relevant due to the fact that people have track records and personalities that cause them to do certain things the majority of the time.

darthsith19 Arm-Wrestler

it doesn't matter if he uses "teh d@rk s!d3!!!" its still him, and she still lost. And correcting me by a month's time isnt enough to even warrant a significant power gap.

Actually, it does matter, regular Anakin is Anakin not using the Dark Side, and she was beating regular Anakin. Regular Anakin is the one used when we say "so and so > Anakin, or Anakin > so and so). Asajj > Regular Anakin then, a month later she'd still be stronger than he was then.
Just cause he was the best that Kenobi had ever seen doesn't mean shit. Well Kenobi has seen Yoda, does that mean that QGJ is above Yoda? No, and, "Thats really poor logic there."

How is that poor logic, had TPM Kenobi seen Yoda fight? Explain to me how Kenobi's own words are poor logic.
First off, that sentence barely makes sense, so it's hard to take it seriously.

And which part doesn't make sense?
I think people are confusing this "zone" of Anakin's with him not just being in a rage-filled state. Of everything I've seen and read, I don't recall it saying "Once in the uber zone, Anakin is unstoppable!" No. He was just in control of his emotions and not being blinded by rage. And if that requires utilizing the dark side, so be it. Mace uses the dark side every time he fights, big deal...they get the job done.

Did I ever say that he was unstoppable when in teh zone? No, I just said he was stronegr when in teh zone, which is true. Again:
"If Maul is nowhere near Anakin's level yet is, according to you, on par with Ventress, then how come Asajj ever is beating Anakin in a duel ever? That's really poor logic there." if you can't figure out what I said:
1. You say Asajj = Maul
2. You say Anakin > Maul
3. Then how come Asajj is ever beating Anakin in a duel (ever)?

Makes sense now, right?

Again, you A>B>C arguments don't mean shit. Example: Anakin pwned Dooku, OB1 beat Anakin, Dook pwned OB1....see how that doesn't work?

They don't always work, but usually do, seeing as there has been proof of why abc didn;t work in that one single instance.
As far as Anoon, her saber skills were second to none, but was still noted as only "one of" the best fighters in the order, not the best.

When was she noted as only "one of" the best?
To be honest I didn't notice that it said TPM Mace, so I'll change my answer to him just winning, but Mace still has incredible speed and a style thats completely foreign to Maul, so i still think he loses.

Completely foreign to Maul? Maul knows Juyo, which is similar to Vaapad, so it's not completely foreign. Proof that Mace has more speed than Maul as of TPM? Proof that Mace had even finished creating Vaapad by TPM? I read Jedi Council: Acts of War which, as far as I know of, is the only place where TPM Mace fights, and he wasn't all to impressive, hardly better than Qui-Gon, and certainly not as good as Maul. He did nothing extraordinary.
If anything, I could say despite the wins Maul has, he could very easily lose alot of these fights due to his own hubris and stupidity. He could have changed the whole SW story if he would have been smart and killed OB1 when he had, but he's stupid...so he lost...and died. And it is relevant due to the fact that people have track records and personalities that cause them to do certain things the majority of the time.

Oh my god,Maul made ons mistake, he must suck! 🙄

Seriously, Maul had every reason to be overconfident, any Sith would have been in that position. Look at Sidious, the strongest Sith in history, and he lost to a one armed, unarmed cyborg. "OH my god, he would get own3d by Anakin 6 months before ROTS soooooo bad!!!"

🙄

Darth Subjekt The beginning of the end.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Actually, it does matter, regular Anakin is Anakin not using the Dark Side, and she was beating regular Anakin. Regular Anakin is the one used when we say "so and so > Anakin, or Anakin > so and so). Asajj > Regular Anakin then, a month later she'd still be stronger than he was then.
No, it really doesn't matter. If he's not performing to the best of his abilities, regardless of where they stem from, then you could say he was holding back and still puts him above her. And really, the one month difference is not enough to warrant a big power increase. Sorry...

Originally posted by darthsith19
How is that poor logic, had TPM Kenobi seen Yoda fight? Explain to me how Kenobi's own words are poor logic.
Kenobi's words aren't poor logic, the way you try to use them is. I'm sure Kenobi has seen Yoda disply his talents. He's responsible for training all the younglings, and puts on demonstrations for classes. To assume that QGJ is above Yoda is ridiculous. Whether OB1 knows it or not is irrelevant. His opinion is fallible. YOU know that Yoda is better, so OB1's opinion of QGJ has no bearing on Maul's skill.

Originally posted by darthsith19
And which part doesn't make sense?
The part you even tried to retype below...it doesn't make sense.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Did I ever say that he was unstoppable when in teh zone? No, I just said he was stronegr when in teh zone, which is true. Again:
"If Maul is nowhere near Anakin's level yet is, according to you, on par with Ventress, then how come Asajj ever is beating Anakin in a duel ever? That's really poor logic there." if you can't figure out what I said:
1. You say Asajj = Maul
2. You say Anakin > Maul
3. Then how come Asajj is ever beating Anakin in a duel (ever)?

Makes sense now, right?

No/ "is ever beating anakin in a duel ever." You think that makes sense? And as Star Wars constantly proves, the best doesn't always win. What it boils down to is, she never killed him. She was unable to do so. Sure, she gave him a nice little beauty mark on his eye...big deal...she died.

Originally posted by darthsith19
They don't always work, but usually do, seeing as there has been proof of why abc didn;t work in that one single instance.
No, they rarely work and almost any competent debater here would agree.

Originally posted by darthsith19
When was she noted as only "one of" the best?
In the very quote that states her skills with a saber as "second to none." Also, see Advent's post in the other Maul thread thats going on right now. She states it there too.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Completely foreign to Maul? Maul knows Juyo, which is similar to Vaapad, so it's not completely foreign. Proof that Mace has more speed than Maul as of TPM? Proof that Mace had even finished creating Vaapad by TPM? I read Jedi Council: Acts of War which, as far as I know of, is the only place where TPM Mace fights, and he wasn't all to impressive, hardly better than Qui-Gon, and certainly not as good as Maul. He did nothing extraordinary.
Proof Maul is faster? Finishing Vaapad doesn't mean shit really. I mean it does to a certain degree, but the one who is creating it should have a very good grasp on how to use it. And how you do you gather he wasn't impressive from text? What leads you to believe that he was barely over QGJ? Prove he was barely over QGJ.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Oh my god,Maul made ons mistake, he must suck! 🙄
Using little faces doesn't make your argument any better. I can say the same about AOTC Anakin...omg, he made one mistake, he must suck. The difference is, Maul's mistake cost him his life to lesser opponent. Anakin was fighting someone far superior and only got shocked and his arm cut off.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Seriously, Maul had every reason to be overconfident, [B]any Sith would have been in that position. Look at Sidious, the strongest Sith in history, and he lost to a one armed, unarmed cyborg. "OH my god, he would get own3d by Anakin 6 months before ROTS soooooo bad!!!"

🙄 [/B]

You should seriously improve your skills before trying to rely on half-ass sarcasm. Maul could have killed OB1 and was too arrogant and it cost him his life...he was even watching OB1. Sidious was focused on Luke when Vader picked him up from behind. Completely different situation. Again, poor logic and an even poorer attempt at sarcasm.

Again, emoticons or smilies don't enhance your argument. Just like when you post half of a quote or passage from a book, and then Advent or someone else that has it calls you on it and you never respond...that shit doesn't help you either. Sorry buddy.

Advent Just Leaving
Originally posted by darthsith19
When was she noted as only "one of" the best?

Anoon Bondara is a male, to my (perfect) recollection.

Anyways, it's stated within the sentence that comes immediately before he is proclaimed to have lightsaber skills "second to none", here's the exact quote:

"The Twi'lek Jedi Master lived in the Force. Always still and complacent as a pool of unknown depth, he was nevertheless one of the best fighters in the Order." (Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter, Ch. 3).

Darth Subjekt The beginning of the end.

i was confused when he said "she" but i said fcuk it, thought maybe i misread it before...

darthsith19 Arm-Wrestler

No, it really doesn't matter. If he's not performing to the best of his abilities, regardless of where they stem from, then you could say he was holding back and still puts him above her. And really, the one month difference is not enough to warrant a big power increase. Sorry...

If he was not performing to the best of his abilities by chocie then he was holding back. Trying but fdailing to use your full abilities is in no way holding back. I also never said one month is enough to warrent a big power increase, I said she wouldn't have decreased and thus would sitll be ahead of him.
Kenobi's words aren't poor logic, the way you try to use them is. I'm sure Kenobi has seen Yoda disply his talents. He's responsible for training all the younglings, and puts on demonstrations for classes. To assume that QGJ is above Yoda is ridiculous. Whether OB1 knows it or not is irrelevant. His opinion is fallible. YOU know that Yoda is better, so OB1's opinion of QGJ has no bearing on Maul's skill.

It still puts Jinn very high up, above AOTC Kenobi at any rate, maybe Yoda never showed Kenobi any of his saber skills, you're assuming he did but do you have any proof? QGJ abilities do have a bearing on Maul's skills, as a not-at0full-strength Maul beat QGJ in 30 seconds.
No/ "is ever beating anakin in a duel ever." You think that makes sense? And as Star Wars constantly proves, the best doesn't always win. What it boils down to is, she never killed him. She was unable to do so. Sure, she gave him a nice little beauty mark on his eye...big deal...she died.

It does makes sense. If Anakin is above Maul, and Maul is equal to Asajj, then why isn't regular (not using the Dark Side) Anakin ever able to beat her? The best may not always win, so what? What are you saying? Yes, she never killed him, but she has fought him twice that i recall, and the first time they were equal till the end, then she gained the upper hand, and then he was forced to use the Dark Side to win, the second time she was winning and then he was forced to use the dark side to win. She is always on par with or ahead of light-side (aka regular) Anakin. And Asajj never died that we know of.
No, they rarely work and almost any competent debater here would agree.

Provide proof that they almost never work. besides the single Kenobi > Anakin > Dooku > Kenobi instance, where Kenobi only won due to luck anyways, when else has abc not worked?
Proof Maul is faster?

You made the original statement that Mace was faster - you back it up. You made the assumption, it's your job to back it up, not mine.
Finishing Vaapad doesn't mean shit really. I mean it does to a certain degree, but the one who is creating it should have a very good grasp on how to use it.

Okay. What if he was only 20% done creating it by TPM? Then he would have a good grasp on it at all and would still choose to fight with Juyo as of TPM, which Maul is 100% familiar with. Also, even if Vaapad was finished, so Maul is completely foreign to it, but Maul's double-bladed lightsaber is completely foreign to Mace, too - the advantages cancel each other out.
I can say the same about AOTC Anakin...omg, he made one mistake, he must suck. The difference is, Maul's mistake cost him his life to lesser opponent. Anakin was fighting someone far superior and only got shocked and his arm cut off.

Except Maul made a mistake that was understandable, anyone in that position would have made the same mistake. Anakin made a mistake with Kenobi yelling "Anakin, no!" behind him. If Sidious had been standing beside Maul and had been yelling "Kill him now!" there would have been no mistake. Plus AOTC Anakin made a lot of mistakes - killing the Tuskens, going to Geonosis, rushing Dooku, marrying Padme, ect.
Maul could have killed OB1 and was too arrogant and it cost him his life...he was even watching OB1. Sidious was focused on Luke when Vader picked him up from behind. Completely different situation.

Kenobi caught Maul by surprise - Palpatine shiuld have been expecting Vader to do something, after all Luke talked about Vader's conflict inside, and Sidious should have sensed Anakin coming back. Yes, you're right, totally different situations, Palpatine's mistake was bigger. So he sucks, right?

Anoon Bondara is a male, to my (perfect) recollection.

Anyways, it's stated within the sentence that comes immediately before he is proclaimed to have lightsaber skills "second to none", here's the exact quote:

"The Twi'lek Jedi Master lived in the Force. Always still and complacent as a pool of unknown depth, he was nevertheless one of the best fighters in the Order." (Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter, Ch. 3).


Oh yeah, sorry about calling him a she, the first time I read the book I thought it was a she, so I still sometimes accidentally call him a she. And thanks for the quote, so there are maybe a few Jedi with overlal betetr fighting skills then hers, okay.

xatl Member

Maul wouldnt make it past 2 cant be botherd explaining all of them lol

jollyjim311 Scruffy Nerf Herder
Originally posted by xatl
Maul wouldnt make it past 2 cant be botherd explaining all of them lol

Do you know anything about Maul besides what you've seen in the movies, by any chance?