Originally posted by masterbruce
lol, Capt It Up, are you the ONLY person on KMC who has ever read Wolverine comics?
please if I have stated any thing wrong about wolevrien feel free to try and correct me...........
if a fact that msot people on kmc who talk about wolverine don't know a thing about berserker rage becuase they do not read his comics or if they do they only read a few issues.
jinzin and srank know what I am talking about.
Originally posted by capt it upHealing factor does not negate damage instantaneously. It is near instananeous. The fact that Wolverine can be stunned means that any competent fighter could take advantage of the stun and beat him definitively. Cap gets a good solid shot to his nose, strikes a nerve in his neck and could literally rip out Wolvie's adam's apple with his hands. He'd be down for a few seconds at least, reknitting himself together and be helpless until he healed. Or, Cap could fight dirty and poke out his eyes to the same effect.
Actually it would. This is with out healing factor with healing factor capt stand no chance of taking any majority hell I could go as far as to say logan would take it every time.
Seconds is all most competent fighters need. It does not matter if you can heal up damage. Hulk has healed from a skeletal mass far quicker than Wolverine has, but Hulk can and has been knocked unconscious for the win. Healing factor considerably negates a win when it's a fight to the death, but it does not similarly negate a win in a typical fight.
Originally posted by capt it upQuelling his berserker rage was the only thing that allowed him to beat Elektra in 'Onslaught: Phase Two.' It was also what allowed him to ultimately beat Cap in 'Origins.' Berserker rage has allowed him to plow through opponents like ninjas and soldiers. Do you think berserker rage allowed him to beat Gorgon, one of his toughest opponents? Wolvie is much more competent in H2H when he fights with smarts, not when he fights like an animal.
Yup another person who knows nothing about what berserker rage does. Please go read up on it before speaking, because if logan was berserker it would be an unfair fight.
That's not to say that fighting like an animal does not have its advantages in certain situations, but Wolvie's more impressive duels end with him using his brains, not his instinct.
Originally posted by capt it upSorry. He relies on his healing factor and his claws too much for me to believe he is just as skilled as Cap in H2H. Being a master of many martial arts means nothing if you usually resort to stabbing and gutting. "Fear not the man who practices a thousand moves once, but fear the man who practices one move a thousand times." That quote applies to Cap much more than Wolverine because that's all that Cap has to rely on.
Logan is just as skilled as capt is in h2h combat.
Originally posted by capt it upYour overestimation of the applicability of his healing advantage again shows here. A knockout is a win. And Wolverine's healing ability does not negate a knockout much more than a helmet and suit of scale mail does. This weekend I shall provide scans aplenty when I visit my parents' house. Wolvie does not need to be killed or need his healing factor to be overloaded for an opponent to win.
False again. If you take away his armor he doomed. His armor allows for him to retain logan type of durability. Logan durability is much much better then capts. Capts armor allows for capt to have wolverine like durability.
Originally posted by capt it upThen what would yo ugive Cap? With his armor, I gave Cap 6/10. You say Cap could get 5/10 with his armor. So we are not that far off from each other. Without his armor I say 5/10. Are you saying perhaps 4/10 or 3/10? If so, then our opinions are not as divergent as you think.
Sorry but no. capt with out his armor would be screwed he not taking any split with out armor with it he could with out it he not.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Healing factor does not negate damage instantaneously. It is near instananeous.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
The fact that Wolverine can be stunned means that any competent fighter could take advantage of the stun and beat him definitively.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Cap gets a good solid shot to his nose,
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
strikes a nerve in his neck and could literally rip out Wolvie's adam's apple with his hands. He'd be down for a few seconds at least, reknitting himself together and be helpless until he healed. Or, Cap could fight dirty and poke out his eyes to the same effect.
Actually all of what you said would do nothing. Nerve shot would have no effect……ripping out his adam’s apple would simple annoy him……..swords through his adam’s apple have not even slowed him…..
I am sorry but even with these attack capt not winning……….and that’s if he could get them off which eh can’t since well eh hold no advantage over wolverine and wolevrien holds several over capt.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Seconds is all most competent fighters need. It does not matter if you can heal up damage. Hulk has healed from a skeletal mass far quicker than Wolverine has,
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
but Hulk can and has been knocked unconscious for the win.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Healing factor considerably negates a win when it's a fight to the death, but it does not similarly negate a win in a typical fight. .
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Quelling his berserker rage was the only thing that allowed him to beat Elektra in 'Onslaught: Phase Two.'
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
It was also what allowed him to ultimately beat Cap in 'Origins.'
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Berserker rage has allowed him to plow through opponents like ninjas and soldiers. Do you think berserker rage allowed him to beat Gorgon, one of his toughest opponents? Wolvie is much more competent in H2H when he fights with smarts, not when he fights like an animal.
and that’s purely the mental aspect not even the physical.
But thanks for proving my point that you know nothing about wolverine.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Sorry. He relies on his healing factor and his claws too much for me to believe he is just as skilled as Cap in H2H. Being a master of many martial arts means nothing if you usually resort to stabbing and gutting.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
"Fear not the man who practices a thousand moves once, but fear the man who practices one move a thousand times." That quote applies to Cap much more than Wolverine because that's all that Cap has to rely on.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
"Your overestimation of the applicability of his healing advantage again shows here. A knockout is a win. And Wolverine's healing ability does not negate a knockout much more than a helmet and suit of scale mail does.
When ahs capt ever taken the amount of head shots from the people logan does and still remains able to fight? Please I love so evidence of capt taking hwad shots form the hulk., wendigo, namor, rough-house and so on and is able to keep fighting
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
" This weekend I shall provide scans aplenty when I visit my parents' house. Wolvie does not need to be killed or need his healing factor to be overloaded for an opponent to win.
Then what would yo ugive Cap? With his armor, I gave Cap 6/10. You say Cap could get 5/10 with his armor. So we are not that far off from each other. Without his armor I say 5/10. Are you saying perhaps 4/10 or 3/10? If so, then our opinions are not as divergent as you think.
with out logans healing factor 5/10 split or slightly in logans favor
with healing factor logan ever ****ing time
http://img249.imageshack.us/my.php?image=berserker27ojlu9.jpg
Thats probably a retcon...maybe.
Originally posted by Alfheim
http://img249.imageshack.us/my.php?image=berserker27ojlu9.jpgThats probably a retcon...maybe.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Boy im pretty sure ive seen fights were Wolverine in beserk mode aint like a supercomputer.
berserker wolverine is normal wolverine on steriods..........every thing about logans gets better.
though logan hardly goes berserker any more.
Originally posted by capt it upNot causing ill effect and instantaneously healing are not equatable. Cap has been shot with bullets by a machine gun and has not slowed down because he fights through the pain. It doesn't mean that they didn't f@cking hurt.
No small damage is negated instantly as shown countless times when bullets are shot in him they close instantly causing him no ill effect…...
Originally posted by capt it upVery well. Then let us make a contest. I will post scans of these so-called low showings and you will post scans of his so-called high showings. I will post scans where a hit or a stabbing or whatever, cause Wolvie to be stunned or paralyzed or incapacitated. You will show me scans of Wolvie not beign affected by such things. Whoever has more scans will win the point. Are you ready to take up the challenge? you can ask for help from anybody you want to try to outnumber mine.
In low showings……..yet were not using low showings as the norm now are we? Sorry but not your incorrect. Fighters have tried and failed miserable. Hell fighters have tried it with a weak wolverine and failed. Your information is purely low showings not to mention incorrect.
If the number is equal, then we will agree that there is an average and 50% of the time, Wolvie can be stunned. If there is considerably more evidence on your part, I will concede that Wolverine can be gutted and continue fighting like nothing happened. If I have more scans, then you'll be quiet and concede that Wolverine's healing factor does not negate being stunned as much as it negates death.
I'm laying this challenge to you. Accept it if you truly believe you're right.
Originally posted by capt it upI don't recall that being a good solid shot that Cap got on him.
Like he did in the werewolf arc and all he did was annoy wolverine and it was his best shot.Actually all of what you said would do nothing. Nerve shot would have no effect……ripping out his adam’s apple would simple annoy him……..swords through his adam’s apple have not even slowed him…..
I am sorry but even with these attack capt not winning……….and that’s if he could get them off which eh can’t since well eh hold no advantage over wolverine and wolevrien holds several over capt.
Show me where a nerve strike has not slowed Wolvie down. Post the scan where a sword through Wolvie's throat pinned his ass down and he needed several SHIELD soldiers to help him pull it out. Again, take up the challenge above if you want. I'll show you scans of Wolvie being stunned by attacks and you can post scans of him not being slowed down by similar attacks... if you have the guts.
Originally posted by capt it upAnd would Cap just stand there and let Wolverine punk him? I don't think so. Regardless of what you have to say, Cap has better H2H showings then Wolverine will ever have. If you want to make a separate contest of showing comparable Cap and comparable Wolverine scans, I guarantee you that Cap trumps Wolvie's by an insane margin.
Ya wolverine just gunna sit her an let capt do all that? Not at all and by the way wolverine a far more dirty fighter then capt.
Originally posted by capt it upAre you stupid? Hulk healing from near skeletal and charred flesh is the one healing feat that Hulk fanboys trump above all others. Do tou want a friggin link to the Hulk respect thread or are you just lazy to go look for it? He heals up in a single sentence.
Actually he has not………..
Originally posted by capt it upDon't argue semantics. I can show you scans of Wolvie being knocked out by Cap level fighters and damage that could be dished out by Cap. And no, I'm not referring to Mark Millar pwnage. Again, take the challenge if you want. For that matter, anybody who wants to can.
Ya, but not by some one like capt and he hardly ever nocked out.
Originally posted by capt it upYeah. If it's instantaneous. But why not prove it in the challenge I posited? I'll show you scans of where he was given pause or left vulnerable during attacks and you can show me scans where he steamrolls through them like nothign happened. Go ahead. Again, anybody who wnats to can take this challenge.
But it does and anny one with haft a brain knows if to pretty much equals go at it, but one can heal massive amounts of damage and pretty much any thing the other throw a them then they win pretty much if not every time.
Originally posted by capt it upShow me where his feral nature is a completely different thing from his berserker rage and I will concede this point. This is a separate issue from healing factor and a scan is all I require for me to concede this point. You and Srank want to make a distinction between his feral state and his berserker rage, but if you can show me where his feral state is a completely different animal from his berserker rage, I will concede this point.
Wow. Did you even read the issue? That was feral wolverine………not berserker. Also logan one due to skill not berserker rage as stated he used his mind to win. Also that ahd to do with logan feral side that had nothing to do with berserker rage at all. Man if your gunna use an issue at least get it right and make sure the other person never read it and owns it. Also logan one by throwing a sword into elektra’s holder on her back………nice to know you don’t even read the issues you use as evidence.
Originally posted by capt it upBrains. Not his berserker rage. This ought to be simple to see since he obviously goes into a berserker rage AFTER Cap slices his chest with the sword. Stop trying to post meaningless arguments that amount to semantics to posture that you're countering every point. It doesn't work that way. Substance over semantics please.
No what beat capt was the blood clot………
Originally posted by capt it upAgain, I never said that his berserker rage throws out all his accumulated martial arts acumen. That might have been someone else. Stop repeating yourself.
Read this scan so you stop talking out your ass.
http://img249.imageshack.us/my.php?image=berserker27ojlu9.jpgand that’s purely the mental aspect not even the physical.
But thanks for proving my point that you know nothing about wolverine.
Originally posted by capt it upStabbing and gutting to him is like a butcher sizing up a side of beef. I've read far more Wolverine then you would like to admit I have. I've been reading comics before Jim Lee's take on X-Men and before the Kubert brothers ever brought their takes on Wolvie. Let me guess, that is Fabien Nicieza on that Wolvie scan you like to tout so much? Gasp... could it be Larry Hama?
Stab and gutting is still using skills…………and how would you know wolverines abilities you never read him…….as proven above.
Originally posted by capt it upHe frikkin broods most of the time. Show me where he trains anywhere near the level that Cap trains and again, I will gladly concede the point.
Wolverine trains constantly………..again showing lack of knowing wolverine
Originally posted by capt it upI do believe I said that. And I believe in it. And I'm totally willing to enter into a contest of scans if you like. Hell, I'll throw in some Hulk scans where he gets his ass knocked out or Superman where he gets his ass knocked out or Sabretooth where he gets his ass knocked out. They have comparable and in some cases superior healing factors.
Yes yes it does. Wait wait I can’t believe you said that.When ahs capt ever taken the amount of head shots from the people logan does and still remains able to fight? Please I love so evidence of capt taking hwad shots form the hulk., wendigo, namor, rough-house and so on and is able to keep fighting
Cap's taken some nasty shots. But that is off-point, son. Your contention is that Wolvie can take Hulk buster shots and not get knocked out. Well... I'd certainly like to enter into this contest of scans. I'm raring to go. I'll give you the weekend to decide. Otherwise, shut up.
Originally posted by capt it upWell then. Sounds like you're confident enough to back up your opinions. Time to walk the walk. And again, anybody who wants to help Capt It Up. By all means.
with out logans healing factor 5/10 split or slightly in logans favorwith healing factor logan ever ****ing time
Originally posted by capt it up
there are bound to be some were he not that good though ive never seena berserker wolverien lose a fight.berserker wolverine is normal wolverine on steriods..........every thing about logans gets better.
though logan hardly goes berserker any more.
Well there you gop anothet aspect of Wolverine as inconsistent as his healing factor. Im pretty sure Wolverine in beserk mode tried to kill Cyclops in the Savage Land....no tactics...just CHARGE!!!!
Originally posted by capt it up
there are bound to be some were he not that good though ive never seena berserker wolverien lose a fight.berserker wolverine is normal wolverine on steriods..........every thing about logans gets better.
though logan hardly goes berserker any more.
So, what you're saying is that when Wolverine goes berserk, his penis shrivels up? 😕.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Well there you gop anothet aspect of Wolverine as inconsistent as his healing factor. Im pretty sure Wolverine in beserk mode tried to kill Cyclops in the Savage Land....no tactics...just CHARGE!!!!
oh and during the savage land logan did not even have a healing factor..........written in of course..............
Originally posted by capt it up
no that was mind control wolverine not berserker..........and no berserker wolverine is pritty much always the same since he was developed...........
He was mincontrolled and he was beserk as well...so he mindcontrolled into going beserk.
Originally posted by capt it up
oh and during the savage land logan did not even have a healing factor..........written in of course..............
Not talking about that.
Originally posted by Alfheim
He was mincontrolled and he was beserk as well...so he mindcontrolled into going beserk.Not talking about that.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Not causing ill effect and instantaneously healing are not equatable. Cap has been shot with bullets by a machine gun and has not slowed down because he fights through the pain. It doesn't mean that they didn't f@cking hurt.
Very well. Then let us make a contest. I will post scans of these so-called low showings and you will post scans of his so-called high showings. I will post scans where a hit or a stabbing or whatever, cause Wolvie to be stunned or paralyzed or incapacitated. You will show me scans of Wolvie not beign affected by such things. Whoever has more scans will win the point. Are you ready to take up the challenge? you can ask for help from anybody you want to try to outnumber mine.If the number is equal, then we will agree that there is an average and 50% of the time, Wolvie can be stunned. If there is considerably more evidence on your part, I will concede that Wolverine can be gutted and continue fighting like nothing happened. If I have more scans, then you'll be quiet and concede that Wolverine's healing factor does not negate being stunned as much as it negates death.
I'm laying this challenge to you. Accept it if you truly believe you're right.
I don't recall that being a good solid shot that Cap got on him.Show me where a nerve strike has not slowed Wolvie down. Post the scan where a sword through Wolvie's throat pinned his ass down and he needed several SHIELD soldiers to help him pull it out. Again, take up the challenge above if you want. I'll show you scans of Wolvie being stunned by attacks and you can post scans of him not being slowed down by similar attacks... if you have the guts.
And would Cap just stand there and let Wolverine punk him? I don't think so. Regardless of what you have to say, Cap has better H2H showings then Wolverine will ever have. If you want to make a separate contest of showing comparable Cap and comparable Wolverine scans, I guarantee you that Cap trumps Wolvie's by an insane margin.
Are you stupid? Hulk healing from near skeletal and charred flesh is the one healing feat that Hulk fanboys trump above all others. Do tou want a friggin link to the Hulk respect thread or are you just lazy to go look for it? He heals up in a single sentence.
Don't argue semantics. I can show you scans of Wolvie being knocked out by Cap level fighters and damage that could be dished out by Cap. And no, I'm not referring to Mark Millar pwnage. Again, take the challenge if you want. For that matter, anybody who wants to can.
Yeah. If it's instantaneous. But why not prove it in the challenge I posited? I'll show you scans of where he was given pause or left vulnerable during attacks and you can show me scans where he steamrolls through them like nothign happened. Go ahead. Again, anybody who wnats to can take this challenge.
Show me where his feral nature is a completely different thing from his berserker rage and I will concede this point. This is a separate issue from healing factor and a scan is all I require for me to concede this point. You and Srank want to make a distinction between his feral state and his berserker rage, but if you can show me where his feral state is a completely different animal from his berserker rage, I will concede this point.
Brains. Not his berserker rage. This ought to be simple to see since he obviously goes into a berserker rage AFTER Cap slices his chest with the sword. Stop trying to post meaningless arguments that amount to semantics to posture that you're countering every point. It doesn't work that way. Substance over semantics please.
Again, I never said that his berserker rage throws out all his accumulated martial arts acumen. That might have been someone else. Stop repeating yourself.
Stabbing and gutting to him is like a butcher sizing up a side of beef. I've read far more Wolverine then you would like to admit I have. I've been reading comics before Jim Lee's take on X-Men and before the Kubert brothers ever brought their takes on Wolvie. Let me guess, that is Fabien Nicieza on that Wolvie scan you like to tout so much? Gasp... could it be Larry Hama?
He frikkin broods most of the time. Show me where he trains anywhere near the level that Cap trains and again, I will gladly concede the point.
I do believe I said that. And I believe in it. And I'm totally willing to enter into a contest of scans if you like. Hell, I'll throw in some Hulk scans where he gets his ass knocked out or Superman where he gets his ass knocked out or Sabretooth where he gets his ass knocked out. They have comparable and in some cases superior healing factors.Cap's taken some nasty shots. But that is off-point, son. Your contention is that Wolvie can take Hulk buster shots and not get knocked out. Well... I'd certainly like to enter into this contest of scans. I'm raring to go. I'll give you the weekend to decide. Otherwise, shut up.
Well then. Sounds like you're confident enough to back up your opinions. Time to walk the walk. And again, anybody who wants to help Capt It Up. By all means.
a lot of it just to dumb to be bothered with. Fine I take the stupid challange since your going to look retarded.........one thing though can't be any thing before logans second massive healing factor up grade since well any thing be for the irrelativent to the debate healing factor wise.
Also your welcome to try and prove capt the far superior fighter though you will fail.
I don't have a scanenr so I will post issue numbers and titles.
this should be funny to watch.
Originally posted by capt it up
sorry but he was not berserker then nor did it state he was.......when mind control a person does not fight to there fullest ability.........so that alone tells you he was not berserker........also again yes logan did not have a healing factor during that time.
What you mean he wasnt beserk he was charging Cyke like a maniac....the same way he was charging Cap in the werewolf sagas. What do you want a sign saying "Wolverine is in beserk mode".
Were not talking about the HF now. Were dealing with his intelligence in besrek mode.
Originally posted by Alfheim
What you mean he wasnt beserk he was charging Cyke like a maniac....the same way he was charging Cap in the werewolf sagas. What do you want a sign saying "Wolverine is in beserk mode".Were not talking about the HF now. Were dealing with his intelligence in besrek mode.
also when logan charged cycke he was not berserker nor did it state it........he simply charge him.............whoopy.........who cares it was before his characters development any ways.
Capt said logan was berserker........becuase he thought he was.........but he was not and capt was wrong.........just becuase capt thinks something does not make it true..........logans mind set was that of a werewolfs........capt mistook it for berserker rage because logan was attacking him.........it not like capt knows what logans like in berserker rage reguardless.
You want me to state issue were he been in berserker rage and I mean actaully in it? He only really been in it a few times......he had other time when he sorta berserker...but it rare for him to goo fully berserker ever actaully he only done it like 6 times. Hell when he went berserker on capt in origens that was not even fully berserker that was pritty mild berserker though he was berserker for a bit.
