Originally posted by srankmissingninHow did I contradict myself. Wolverine is far from the guy I've described and he isn't the best at what he does. Yes his healing factor does give him advantage but Wolverine really lacks the essentials. For he just plain isn't a good enough tactician to do it. Even when he has lost his HF or lost his Adamantium claws he still does the same thing lets rush head long into battle.
Yup thats true. Writers don't seem to realise that once you get past half a dozen different styles, everything else is pretty redundant.Not only does this make little sense but it also contradicts what you just said. Mainly the "skill is based on your ability to optimize your strengths while minimizing your weaknesses compared to the other combatant." part.
While other fighters are using self defence oriented styles Wolverine's healing factor affords him the the luxury of an almost purely offencive fighting style. He is a death dealer, there are no sport elements to his fighting style, nothing flashy, just practical and the efficient honed to near perfection. How is that not optimizing your strengths while minimizing your weaknesses compared to the other combatant. He isn't fighting to fight, he is fighting to win... why would he needlessly prolong a fight by hopping around like jackass trying to emulate Bruce Lee?
I don't think the majority of people have any idea of what fighting skill actually is. Speed, accuracy, coordination and most of all efficiency, are what make someone a skilled fighter... Wolverine has that in spades. Martial artist speed years of their lives training their bodies to do what Wolverine does natural, operate on instinct that has been honed to pinnacle of perfection
And most importantly compared to the people I mentioned yes Wolverine might as well be a terd in fighting ability. Let's face writers try to play off his great MA ability by saying he has learned every fighting style on Earth.
Re: Skill?
Originally posted by JyppeI'm sure people have already echoed my thoughts on the thread, so I'll just skip to this part.
Captain America doesn't know THAT many martial arts (*Takes a look at Batman*), but he's very effective fighters, I'd say one of the top 3 (in Marvel)
Mainly to tell you that you're wrong.
Originally posted by Newjak
How did I contradict myself. Wolverine is far from the guy I've described and he isn't the best at what he does. Yes his healing factor does give him advantage but Wolverine really lacks the essentials. For he just plain isn't a good enough tactician to do it. Even when he has lost his HF or lost his Adamantium claws he still does the same thing lets rush head long into battle.And most importantly compared to the people I mentioned yes Wolverine might as well be a terd in fighting ability. Let's face writers try to play off his great MA ability by saying he has learned every fighting style on Earth.
I mean Logan never beaten the like of capt........or DD....or shang-chi.....or a guy who mopped the floor with IF on pure skill or any thing.......
and you have the nerve to tell me slade is the superior fighter when it a known fact he relies on his powers to beat superior skilled people such as night wing and batman.
Originally posted by capt it upLogan has a huge advantage against all those guys with his Healing factor. Take that away and his battle abilities are effectively halved or even fourthed if you ask me.
as always you are so ignorant and prove none of your claimsI mean Logan never beaten the like of capt........or DD....or shang-chi.....or a guy who mopped the floor with IF on pure skill or any thing.......
and you have the nerve to tell me slade is the superior fighter when it a known fact he relies on his powers to beat superior skilled people such as night wing and batman.
As for the Salde the guy has an enhanced brain he should be able to out think anyone in a real life combat situation with ease. Hence he really should be one of the top MAs in both companies if you go by what is actual MA and not Comic MA 😉
Originally posted by capt it up
as always you are so ignorant and prove none of your claimsI mean Logan never beaten the like of capt........or DD....or shang-chi.....or a guy who mopped the floor with IF on pure skill or any thing.......
and you have the nerve to tell me slade is the superior fighter when it a known fact he relies on his powers to beat superior skilled people such as night wing and batman.
A starving Wolverine has no business outsmarting one of the best tactians in the Mu. Wolverine has no business beating Shang Chi in 3 panels.
Wolverine is even too short to put DD in that submmisson hold for starters, what so Wolverine can grow now?
Originally posted by NewjakI was always thinking the same about his healing factor he wouldn't win battles if not for that.
Logan has a huge advantage against all those guys with his Healing factor. Take that away and his battle abilities are effectively halved or even fourthed if you ask me.As for the Salde the guy has an enhanced brain he should be able to out think anyone in a real life combat situation with ease. Hence he really should be one of the top MAs in both companies if you go by what is actual MA and not Comic MA 😉
Well, Wolverine might theoretically know lots and f*cking lots of martial arts, but he practices in them so rarely, that his skill should've been more than a bit rusty. It's only his passive knowledge- or should be that...I've learned German for 5 years but after that I had 6 years without language practice and German has become my passive knowledge. And that's 6 years...Wolvie doesn't have superhuman memory, and even if he remembers theory, multiple years without practice (fighting like a wild predator and just jumping on your opponents with claws out don't improve one's MA level) made that knowledge rusty to the point that the victory over Shang Chi isn't look too plausible.In fact Wolverine beating Shang Chi in 3 panels is a little nasty cousin of Lobo PIS...popularity contest.
Logan is not INVINCIBLE when it comes to martial arts. In fact, his healing factor (and the inhuman stamina it provides) is his only (and not sufficient from the logical point of view) saving grace against opponents like Shang Chi and Stick...
Wolverine's fans and writers who are too busy milking that stinky cash cow to think about "puny logic" tends either give to Wolvie PIS-filled victories or (in case of fans) overhyping Wolverine's rogue gallery.
Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Well, Wolverine might theoretically know lots and f*cking lots of martial arts, but he practices in them so rarely, that his skill should've been more than a bit rusty. It's only his passive knowledge- or should be that...I've learned German for 5 years but after that I had 6 years without language practice and German has become my passive knowledge. And that's 6 years...Wolvie doesn't have superhuman memory, and even if he remembers theory, multiple years without practice (fighting like a wild predator and just jumping on your opponents with claws out don't improve one's MA level) made that knowledge rusty to the point that the victory over Shang Chi isn't look too plausible.In fact Wolverine beating Shang Chi in 3 panels is a little nasty cousin of Lobo PIS...popularity contest.Logan is not INVINCIBLE when it comes to martial arts. In fact, his healing factor (and the inhuman stamina it provides) is his only (and not sufficient from the logical point of view) saving grace against opponents like Shang Chi and Stick...
Wolverine's fans and writers who are too busy milking that stinky cash cow to think about "puny logic" tends either give to Wolvie PIS-filled victories or (in case of fans) overhyping Wolverine's rogue gallery.
You sumed it up beautfiully.
Yeah but as this thread has been stating, even though Wolverine doesn't use MA all the time so he should be rusty his overall fighting experience probably makes up for that in a huge way.
After all do you really need to be an MA to have a high fighting skill? Personally I think a high fighting skill is coming up with your own style which compliments your powers. Which again brings you back to Wolverine, the guy has a healing factor and unbreakable bones, he can jump straight into a fight, maybe the enemy will panic and leave themselves open, maybe the b*tch slap Logan away, but he will be back on his feet again in no time, and after this he has learned a little bit on how his enemy fights and what he can do to counter, if he decides he needs to fall back on MA to win he will even if he is a bit rusty, but even though he may be rusty he still knows loads and loads as he has proved (imagine what he would be like if he practices all the time) and while he is using MA he still has his actual powers to fall back on.
Then you can go to a character like Spider-man who has developed his own fighting style to best use his powers, keeping on the move and overwhelming the enemy with speedy punches while letting his spider sense guide him.
These are the sorts of things that make fighters like these good tactions because they come up with the most effective way they can work in combat. One of the best examples I can think of is in Civil War where Spidey fights Cap, Spider-man wanted to fight on instinct and keep his distance like normal, but Cap knew this so forced the battle to be up close and personal because he knows Parker doesn't excel in that. So really I don't think MA has an awful lot to do with combat skill unless that is what you fall back on to be your saving grace :/ which Wolverine obviously doesn't.
Originally posted by Sparkz
Yeah but as this thread has been stating, even though Wolverine doesn't use MA all the time so he should be rusty his overall fighting experience probably makes up for that in a huge way.After all do you really need to be an MA to have a high fighting skill? Personally I think a high fighting skill is coming up with your own style which compliments your powers. Which again brings you back to Wolverine, the guy has a healing factor and unbreakable bones, he can jump straight into a fight, maybe the enemy will panic and leave themselves open, maybe the b*tch slap Logan away, but he will be back on his feet again in no time, and after this he has learned a little bit on how his enemy fights and what he can do to counter, if he decides he needs to fall back on MA to win he will even if he is a bit rusty, but even though he may be rusty he still knows loads and loads as he has proved (imagine what he would be like if he practices all the time) and while he is using MA he still has his actual powers to fall back on.
Then you can go to a character like Spider-man who has developed his own fighting style to best use his powers, keeping on the move and overwhelming the enemy with speedy punches while letting his spider sense guide him.
These are the sorts of things that make fighters like these good tactions because they come up with the most effective way they can work in combat. One of the best examples I can think of is in Civil War where Spidey fights Cap, Spider-man wanted to fight on instinct and keep his distance like normal, but Cap knew this so forced the battle to be up close and personal because he knows Parker doesn't excel in that. So really I don't think MA has an awful lot to do with combat skill unless that is what you fall back on to be your saving grace :/ which Wolverine obviously doesn't.
Yeah but I dont see how the hell that justifies him beating Shang in 3 panels, dodging Stick and beating Cap in tactics after starving and being awake for several days.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Yeah but I dont see how the hell that justifies him beating Shang in 3 panels, dodging Stick and beating Cap in tactics after starving and being awake for several days.
I'm not saying those things make sense I'm just saying that Logan makes up for the skill he doesn't always use in different ways.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Yeah thats true. Wolverine makes me b*tchy, sorry.
LoL he used to do that to me too, then I stopped coming on the forums for a while and just started enjoying reading Wolverine again and tried not to think about PISy moments if there was any. Its not the writers that have ruined Wolverine IMO its the fanboys that make you angry about him.
The efficiency is the major point in the fight. And the "billions of martial arts" knowledge is one of the most stupid inventions of comicbooks writers. A really good fighter employs his personal fighting style, combining moves from different styles in the most efficient way... That's true even if that top level fighter primarly known for using one fighting style (i.e. Shang Chi, master of kung fu).
Wolverine is berserker, so he can and would be beaten down by patient and calm fighter who will exploit that Wolvie's weak point with style (in Marvel I can think of Shang Chi).
Actually, some Wolverine fans make really funny claims like Wolverine beating all Mortal Combat cast singlehandely and easily...I've really seen something like that on that forum.
Class 20 is not class 100. And Spidey isn't that skilled for the gap not being able to be covered with skill.
1. Spidey is a widely known victim of CIS.
2. His "fighting style" is more of acrobatic performance...think of capoeira performance- more of dance that of really effective fighting style (though there are effective versions of capoeira). The thing that makes that "street dances" effective is Spidey's strength. Without class 20 strength the damage from Spidey's kicks would be pathetic.