Originally posted by exanda kane
I'm sorry, but the original Star Wars has one of the most definitive and iconic cult followings of them all...
Originally posted by MildPossession
Indeed Star Wars is a cult film.
Um, NO. Star wars is not a cult classic, as the original was a huge MAINSTREAM success. The word “cult” implies a quality of being underground or not well known. Everybody knows about Star Wars, we even have thousands of thread here devoted to it. So, No, Star wars is not a cult classic. True it is a Classic but has WAY TOO MANY fans to be a "cult" classic.
Originally posted by ADarksideJedi
It really depends on how you look at it. I heard that cult movies mean only certain people like it. There fore being that not everybody sadly does not love star wars, then it is indeed a cult movie/jm
Erm well a lot more people like Star Wars than say, an actual cult classic like Buckaroo Banzai : Across the 8th Dimension. Both were Sci-films only one has a SMALL strongly devoted fan base , while the other one a GIGANTIC SEA of fans. True, some people hate stars wars but I say that 95% of the world would hate Buckaroo Banzai.
Originally posted by 2D_MASTER
Um, NO. Star wars is not a cult classic, as the original was a huge MAINSTREAM success. The word “cult” implies a quality of being underground or not well known. Everybody knows about Star Wars, we even have thousands of thread here devoted to it. So, No, Star wars is not a cult classic. True it is a Classic but has WAY TOO MANY fans to be a "cult" classic.
Um, yes. Star Wars is a cult classic. Does this mean that everyone who went to see the original and the subsequent sequels spends weekends, bank holidays or even work days lounging around in a Darth Vader costume? Hell no, but there is a huge cult following of Star Wars, where people will do that.
Pick a cult film, say Dr.Strangelove, Clerks or Donnie Darko and you would be hard pressed to find them meeting up en masse wearing all sorts of paraphenalia.
When you have a number of individuals who claim Jedi as their religion, you have a real life cult on your hands. You also have a cult film on your hands.
Originally posted by exanda kane
Um, yes. Star Wars is a cult classic. Does this mean that everyone who went to see the original and the subsequent sequels spends weekends, bank holidays or even work days lounging around in a Darth Vader costume? Hell no, but there is a huge cult following of Star Wars, where people will do that.Pick a cult film, say Dr.Strangelove, Clerks or Donnie Darko and you would be hard pressed to find them meeting up en masse wearing all sorts of paraphenalia.
When you have a number of individuals who claim Jedi as their religion, you have a real life cult on your hands. You also have a cult film on your hands.
You obviously do not understand what CULT CLASSIC is, you're hopeless. Go on thinking that a MANISTREAM success like Star Wars is a CULT movie, you just proved by point how MAINSTREAM Star Wars is, hence not a cult classic. THERE ARE TONS of people who love Star Wars, hence not a cult film. Get it? Anybody who knows ANYTHING about movies would not list Star Wars as a cult classic.
A cult classic cannot be described in any definitive terms, its all subjective. By attempting to reinforce some kind of barrier on the phrase, you have completely missed the point of a cult classic.
When you generally have people putting down "Jedi" as a religion in a national census, you have a religous cult on your hands. How is this not the behaviour of a cult following? Explain that to me.
Originally posted by exanda kane
A cult classic cannot be described in any definitive terms, its all subjective. By attempting to reinforce some kind of barrier on the phrase, you have completely missed the point of a cult classic.When you generally have people putting down "Jedi" as a religion in a national census, you have a religous cult on your hands. How is this not the behaviour of a cult following? Explain that to me.
We are talking about the TERM "cult classic" as it pertains to cinema or movies. The definition, when talking to those who know what the words means, is dependant on a SMALL and underground fan base. Hence, these movies being shown in small festivals and midnight shows. For example, people have posted the following movies that indeed are cult classics:
Rocky Horror Picture Show
Clockwork Orange
Cannibal the Musical.
The Warriors
The Beyond
Suspiria
Django
The Toxic Avenger
Donnie Darko
Bubba-Ho-tep
None of these movies did particularly well at the box office, most weren’t even shown in major theaters.
I think this guy summed it up best:
Originally posted by Smasandian
Cult classics are movies that have an small diehard fan base.
Originally posted by 2D_MASTER
[B]We are talking about the TERM "cult classic" as it pertains to cinema or movies. The definition, when talking to those who know what the words means, is dependant on a SMALL and underground fan base. Hence, these movies being shown in small festivals and midnight shows. For example, people have posted the following movies that indeed are cult classics:
Anyone that understands the term, no need for capitals, will realise that a substantial part of what iterates as a "cult classic" is subjective.
Attempting to define the term will only lead to meandering bickering, evident in this thread itself, thus proving the point that a "cult classic" is subjective in its nature.
None of these movies did particularly well at the box office, most weren’t even shown in major theaters.
Of course. But if these films might be determined (subjectively of course) as "cult classics", then what is Star Wars?
It's fan base has many more levels than any of those films you mentioned, from the casual cinema viewer to the most avid fanatic's out there, you mentioned yourself that there are thousands of posts about Star Wars in these very forums*. Where are the thousands of posts for those films you mentioned? A few, no doubt, but anywhere near the amount Star Wars has?
That is a huge underground following, one that has become so large it has even transcened the usual perceptions of what a cult following is, so much so that it nearly made itself an officially recognised religion. Star Wars is synonymous with a cult following, so much so that it is the definitive and most iconic cult classic of them all.
Even by your terms that a cult classic cannot be mainstream, Star Wars became the mainstream through its cult following. It's the definitive example.
*This is an internet forum, not your every day "mainstream" means of communication for the majority of the population.
Originally posted by exanda kane
Anyone that understands the term, no need for capitals, will realise that a substantial part of what iterates as a "cult classic" is subjective.
Attempting to define the term will only lead to meandering bickering, evident in this thread itself, thus proving the point that a "cult classic" is subjective in its nature.
Keep on trying to re-define the term all you want. Calling the definition "subjective" leaves too many doors open, and can lead to people calling anything a "cult classic". Almost anybody that actually studies film can tell you that you're wrong, it's well known and accepted that one of the requirements of a "cult movie" is a small following. Now you can go on giving your definition, but you will find lots of people who will think you are silly, calling Star Wars a "cult classic", must less "the definitive and most iconic cult classic of them all".
Originally posted by 2D_MASTER
[B]Keep on trying to re-define the term all you want. Calling the definition "subjective" leaves too many doors open, and can lead to people calling anything a "cult classic".
I'm not redefining anything. Anyone who generally studies film with any kind of conviction and intuitive capacity realises that intepretation is a very important part of analysis, and that even subjective intepretation, which leaves many doors open as you say, is useful.
Almost, anybody that actually studies film can tell you that you're wrong, it's a well known and accepted that one of the requirments that a cult movie is having a small following.
I don't know what you have studied, but it seems like a very basic and superficial course.
Now you can go on giving your definition, but you will find lots of people who will thinnk you're silly calling Star Wars a "cult classic", must less "the definitive and most iconic cult classic of them all".
I'm finding it hard to understand why you reply, when it appears obvious that you don't take any word I say in, much less that you deny any kind of cult status to one of the most iconic and followed "cult" films Hollywood has ever produced.
I suppose you would say Star Trek isn't a cult film too? Despite it having almost a large and fanatical following as Star Wars? Cult classics are not simply independant crossover hits.
Originally posted by exanda kane
I'm not redefining anything. Anyone who generally studies film with any kind of conviction and intuitive capacity realises that intepretation is a very important part of analysis, and that even subjective intepretation, which leaves many doors open as you say, is useful.
What so you're saying that definitions are useless. The term "Cult Classic" exist so that it can be used to refer to a specific kind of movie. Pretty soon you'll claim that "Wizard of Oz" is a cult classic. It is true that definitions have certain aspects that can be questioned, but the definition itself exist so that the idea behind the definition can be recognized.
Originally posted by 2D_MASTER
What so you're saying that defintions are useless. The term "Cult Classic" exist so that it can be used to refer to a specfic kind of movie. Pretty soon you'll claim that "Wizard of Oz" is a cult classic.
Please do not post again. You're embarassing yourself. I'm doing this for you.
Originally posted by exanda kane
Please do not post again. You're embarassing yourself. I'm doing this for you.
You're doing it because you have nothing intelligent to say.
Originally posted by exanda kane
And I wouldn't call Pulp Fiction a cult classic, it had a budget of around 3m, and made around 100m; that's alot of profit.
Do you have any idea how much profit was made with the Star Wars trilogy? Do not go around saying Pulp Fiction wasn't a cult classic, then turn around and say "Star Wars" is. Dolt. You disqualified your own movie.
Originally posted by exanda kane
Well, irony is quite refreshing when it's that blatant.I'd love to have taken the bait and explain just how you lost any kind of credibility, but I'm afraid I cannot indulge myself, let alone you. Do the forum a favour and put your little hissy fit in a PM, send it my way.
Hahahah the sad thing is, you actually think you make sense. You can't explain how I've "lost credibility" because you cannot, or you surely would. As for a PM, no, you sir ; are a lost cause. Now be a good boy and show how I've "lost my credibility", since it would be so easy.
Originally posted by 2D_MASTER
Do you have any idea how much profit was made with the Star Wars trilogy? Do not go around saying Pulp Fiction wasn't a cult classic, then turn around and say "Star Wars" is. Dolt. You disqualified your own movie. [/B]
Show me the thousands of film threads on the subject of Pulp Fiction, show me the organised religion of Pulp Fiction, show me the fan events, the character impersonations, the subsequent merchandising that is collected, the fan webistes, the magazines, the fan made parodies and mockumentaries.
Show me something that constitues its cult status. Oh, but lets think a minute. Pulp Fiction was paraded as one of the best movies of the 1990's and it made a hell of a lot of profit for Miramax, not to mention it has gained Tarantino a huge following. And now you say this allows it to be a cult classic?
Originally posted by 2D_MASTER
Hahahah the sad thing is, you actually think you make sense. You can't explain how I've "lost credibility" because you cannot, or you surely would. As for a PM, no, you sir ; are a lost cause. Now be a good boy and show how I've "lost my credibility", since it would be so easy.
The ability to make any kind of intelligent remark would be one. As I have said though, refrain from spilling this Sonic Youth bollocks on the forums.
Originally posted by exanda kane
Show me the thousands of film threads on the subject of Star Wars, show me the organised religion of Pulp Fiction, show me the fan events, the character impersonations, the subsequent merchandising that is collected, the fan webistes, the magazines, the fan made parodies and mockumentaries.
I Never claimed that Pulp Fiction was a cult classic in the first place (I agree that It was too much a hollywood smash). Here is what I said :
Originally posted by 2D_MASTER
I do NOT think "pulp fiction" is a cult classic ,it did wonderful at the box office hence everybody has seen it. I think the definition of a CULT classic lies within the word "cult".
I merely pointed out the fact that you said it wasn't a cult classic too(pulp fiction was somebody else's suggestion that I disagreed with). You see, you seem to think that having thousands of threads, a religion, fan fiction and all that are characteristics of being a cult classic?. Let's take a film practically NOBODY would argue against being a cult classic, Eraserhead. No fan fictions no thousands of threads , hardly any merchandising. Now, are you telling me that Eraserhead isn’t a cult classic because it lacks main stream attention? You are so back wards, it's frankly quite sad.
Originally posted by 2D_MASTER
I Never claimed that Pulp Fiction was a cult classic in the first place (I agree that It was too much a hollywood smash). You see, you seem to think that having thousands of threads, a religion, fan fiction and all that are characteristics of being a cult classic?. Let's take a film NOBODY would argue against being a cult classic, Eraserhead. No fan fictions no thousands of threads , hardly any merchandising. Now, are you telling me that Eraserhead isn’t a cult classic because it lacks main stream attention? You are so back wards, it's frankly quite sad.
On the contrary, I have already stated, numerous times, that Star Wars is the definitive "cult classic".
Why, you ask?
Firstly, because it has a cult following; a group of people who simply cannot get enough of it, and spend their time dressing up as their favourite characters and all manner and over zealous, cranky stuff.
Would you say this was normal behaviour? Of course not. It's the stuff of obsessive fans worshiping the franchise as a cult.
What makes Star Wars, as an example, the definitive "cult classic" is the fact that this kind of cultish behaviour is so very popular and widespread. It has a universal appeal which people follow with cult-like fanaticism. Denying the fact that it was a box office smash does not lessen the cult following it has.
Or do you argue that Star Wars is not a classic?