I saw movie 3 yesterday ( slight spoilers)

Well, I've mentioned this before about Jack and Elizabeth, but I'll try again here.

What happened to Jack and Elizabeth's relationship?

I can't believe I have to explain this but....Elizabeth killed Jack.

Yep. I know. Shocking as it may seem, that one, tiny, insignificant little act of Elizabeth's (using Jack's trust in her to end his life) really, really mucked things up for them.

Jack's first action on gathering up his crew is to decide to leave Elizabeth behind in the Locker.

Jack's death was the death of any possible romance between him and Elizabeth. Yes, I know the book (which is based on old scripts) and the old scripts had more Sparrabeth moments (there were no real J/E scenes together at all, even then), but in the end I think this is actually better. Jack and Elizabeth don't have anymore romance, but they do have a great friendship now, and so do Will and Jack...that's going to be important for all three of them, and I'm glad they were able to stabilize and preserve all of the friendships of the trio. 😄

Keep telling that yourself,darling.As I said things arenot as simple as that

I get what you are saying Surreal...I know Elizabeth killed jack....but this was a stupid movie....so what....I am a big historical romance junkie...and many many times the heroine and hero do unspeakable things to each other all because they are fighting their true feelings.....and that's how I've always viewed Jack and liz....from the moment she called him "dispicable" in Movie 1...I was like Wow this is like they just stepped out of one of my favorite romance novels....it's the friction, the fighting, the denials and then the ultimate caving in to one's feelings....

and you know what else gave me hope was when I heard Keira say in an inteveiw that her's and Will's relationship was falling apart while something quite interesting develops between her and Jack..and that was Keira's interpretation...and they even commented on that in the commentaries.....T and T themselves....I guess I wouldn't be this crazy about it if they hadn't of made Jack look like a lovesick puppy that got duped by a girl.....cuz that is what it seems like...cuz we know taht Jack was vexed by Elizabeth, that she played into his thoughts....he didn't know what he wanted because he was confused by her and then the moment he sees her in DMC he can't help flirting with her...he is drawn to her....they are very much alike...he enjoys the challenging conversations with her.....and if in fact that she knew Jack was vunerable and used that against him, then it just makes me dislike Elizabeth and she doesn't deserve Will either....

that's my opinion and interpretation of this Surreal...and I know what you are saying...but...can't help thinking that they could have over come it as they do in Romance Novels.....but I know this wasn't a romance novel it was a Pirate movie...

But Disney even promoted Liz and Jack as couple to some degree......

Oh well, I don't even know why I am rehashing all this, it's all water under the bridge anyways...and if we wont' to be disappointed with the movie...and sad that we didn't get any great j/e scenes...then that's our right, right?????

You're right, Liz took advantage of Jack's weakness. She killed him in a vary mean way. That fact makes me dislike her. However she was the only woman in the movie Jack had a feelings for. Jack forgave her that she'd killed him. He didn't even try to get revenge. It must have been love. I bet that she chose Will because she was convinced that it war right thing to do and after killing jack she probably believed that her relationship with him was impossible so she said yes to will. At least i want to believe that she didn't love Will so much. Even Keira believed in Sparrabeth 😄

You may be right in some ways Gideon,but life is not as simple,not black and white.elizabeth relly cares for Jack too.

This is what I don't get; if you want to debate "Jack 'n 'Liz" versus "Will 'n 'Liz", go ahead. But do so logically. Otherwise, just agree to disagree. I've never met a Sparrabeth fan who can actually debate the issue. The fact that Elizabeth cares for Jack is obvious. Did I deny it? Hardly. The difference is: caring for someone is so much more different than loving them. Logic concludes that Elizabeth simply had a temporary infatuation with Jack. I get it. He's a 'redeemed sinner', a bad boy. Women like it. But she clearly showed a much greater devotion and love for Will. She was willing to kill Jack to save herself and Will, and ultimately, she chose Will knowing that she would only be able to see him once every ten years, and according to an interview, "their true love" was what broke Will's curse after the AWE credits.

From a storypoint perspective and logic (the only two things you can adequetly debate), Elizabeth cares for Jack as a friend, deeply. But she loves Will and cares for him to a much deeper degree.

I don't mean to sound harsh at all, but all you have in the end is: "Johnny and Keira had more chemistry than Orlando and Keira." When it comes to a debate, that isn't a suggested route of defense.

My advice: just agree to disagree and read the fanfiction.

honestly, I was very happy with this movie.. sure it could have been funnier, but it was funnier the second time i saw it.. I really liked the ending, kind of bitter sweet. I really don't get how someone could hate any of the POTC movies... it has comedy, mystery, love, tragedy, and action. it's like all the best types of movies rolled into one awesome triology. Not to offend anyone, but I think that the only way someone could hate POTC is if they either don't understand it, or hate going to see movies, or just simply are boring suares that analize everything to death to suck the fun out of it. The thing I liked best about this movie is that Will and Elizabeth grew and their realationship grew. I'm glad they got their ending. and to all you sparrabethers, I really do think that Jack is better off alone, and able to go wherever he pleases without a wife or family to worry about. Don't you think that Jack having a family would totally ruin his character's being free. Besides, a sparrabeth ending wouldn't be good for Liz either because now she wouldn't be able to settle down and have a family. To sum it all up,Will and Liz are the ultimate couple, and Jack would rather sail the seas without responsibilities. And I think that this movie is awesome!!

Originally posted by LoveJackSparrow
You said it!!!!!!!!! I mean come on they should have at least gave us like maybe 3 scenes of sparrabeth but whats getting me even madder is that people are saying that they deleted those scenes and they will be on the DVD....WTF is that all about?????????? They should have just left them there!

Yes Sparrabeth scenes were deleted out of the final cut! I know for sure there was scene between Jack and Liz during the Parley scene on the sand Bar where Beckett burned Jack out and i think Liz said something then Beckett says something like Jack tried to ensure that i took everyone except Elizabeth....then Liz was like what would Jack want with me?? or something? And then Jack leans over to Liz and says something like "Im not admitting to anything but Even if what Beckett was saying were true, there is no chance in that happening now....(leans closer to Liz and asks) Is there?" and she looks at him and then he says something else!

But its was a Sparrabeth moment where Jack sort of hinted of a future together!

These are pics to accompany this deleted scene and to prove the scene has been shot:

This scene makes jack even more defeated by Will 🙁 He tries, he doesn't give up but she doesn't change her mind.

Jack is hinting that a future with Elizabeth would never happen now. I know the moment was filmed (so were lots of others with James and Weatherby), but most of them were drastically changed both for time contraints, and because they took the film in a different direction.

They basically removed any real hint of Jack being in love with Elizabeth from the original draft of the film to what they decided to keep. I don't know if any of the James/Weatherby scenes or Jack/Elizabeth scenes will be added in, since it contradicts the movie so much.

What I think will be in deleted scenes, if they get to it, would be an extension of the Jack/Beckett scene, James/Elizabeth (depending on the wording), Jack/Will, Will/Beckett/Jones (depending again on wording), Jack/Gibbs at the Brethren Meeting (there was a whole bit of dialogue cut), DJ and Calypso, Will/Elizabeth (pre-wedding), and then an extended Strumpet/Jack/Gibbs scene.

They changed a lot of James and Weatherby scenes to make James less complicit in Weatherby's murder (in the original draft, James finds the body but does nothing), and Weatherby was supposed to attempt to stab the heart (thank god that got cut. I hope it's NOT a deleted scene).

For Jack and Elizabeth, I think they wanted to 'uncomplicate' things. Make Jack angry at her, and also, it's one less story line to follow. The only thing that the deleted J/E 'moments' show is that Elizabeth time and time again shows that she doesn't love Jack. It would have been painful to watch, and it's so much better to just have them be friends rather than have Jack shown to be in some sort of unrequitted love with Elizabeth.

Even in the old drafts of the script, it is obvious that Elizabeth's choice has always been Will. Jack was basically nothing to her...look at that scene that you pointed out, PirateDiva, she didn't even get what Jack would want with her. Romance with Jack is totally NOT on her mind that she's surprised and it appears to be, slightly annoyed with Jack over it. Did you really want to see her reject him again?

Too soap-operaish for me. I'm really happy that the relationship has come full-circle. I was worried for a while that they WOULD make it unrequitted love for Jack, and it totally doesn't fit his character at all.

Originally posted by joanjoan
This scene makes jack even more defeated by Will 🙁 He tries, he doesn't give up but she doesn't change her mind.

Sorry for the double post, but wanted to say, "EXACTLY". It's good that they cut out all of the "Jack loves Lizzie but Lizzie doesn't love Jack" moments from the film, because, eh....they would have been depressing to watch.

ALSO, it makes Jack look like an utter and complete bastard, and I think that they have to be very careful to not do that, or else people won't like him anymore.

Originally posted by Surreal_44
Sorry for the double post, but wanted to say, "EXACTLY". It's good that they cut out all of the "Jack loves Lizzie but Lizzie doesn't love Jack" moments from the film, because, eh....they would have been depressing to watch.

You know if Liz was going to stay with Will then yes....its a good thing they took out the Liz/Jack scenes cause then i would have really been upset that they shared beautiful moments only for her to still stay with Will.

Although seeing those scenes would have been nice! 😍

every body check out my site!!!! the link might not work, so copy and paste it into your address bar thing.... oh yeah, and take my quizzes and polls... www.freewebs.com/potcfan2003

one of my mates said something interesting to me..

I was quite drunk at the time and so was he

but he said "when he's sitting in the boat at the end, and drinks the rum..the bottle means full circle..he ends up in the boat that he did from movie 1..everything went round in circle and ended up as it was at the start of movie 1"....he then added..."what a load of time I wasted watching the second and 3rd movie if it was to end up EXACTLY the same"

EDIT - PS sorry about the first post in this thread..I was just kinda disappointed..the movie was OK..but not great it could have been epic..we shold have watched spider man 3 instead me thinks, they know how to do it right I assume? main character gets main girl by the end of it?

Originally posted by Surreal_44
Well, I've mentioned this before about Jack and Elizabeth, but I'll try again here.

[b]What happened to Jack and Elizabeth's relationship?

I can't believe I have to explain this but....Elizabeth killed Jack.

T&T need to STOP toying with peoples minds..pisses me off big time..they should have just flat out said "thats the end of J/E" because there wasn't even a smidgen of it in AWE anyway! LOL..they dragged us along as if we were dogs to a bone believing that there would be more J/E..if they said it ended in the commentary of movie 2..do you really think that would be a wise move?.

Because by that point I'm almost certain they had realised that J/E was something mega to the franchise and if movie 3 was to be success they couldn't say it had ended with movie 2

"missed opportunities with movie 3" - T&T..

oh hell yeah! and they know it!.

Movie 2 - was truly epic.... why? because Captain Jack appeared to go down fighting for the woman he loved. that shot of him being eaten, sword raised ready to fight was just IT..it made it oh so epic..

Movie 3 - forgettable..why?

because it wasn't even based around the main character

how the heck was this supposed to be a memorable movie if the main reason everyone goes to watch it is barley in the movie? and NOTHING happens to his character??

..talk about going out on a whimper DAMN.. the last shot is of everyones least favorite of the trio trying to look all herioic..and Jacks lst shot was of him on a shitty boat..

EDIT - lets now see if movie 3 gets to a billion ay?

a sequel to a movie will get a very high gross because a movie's gross depends on how well loved the LAST movie was..so its not high because its a good movie..its high because the last one was good.

it will get to a billion however, if people are feeling it as much as movie 2 once they have seen it,

First of all, they didn't have so many seens of Jack, but that's because he had no story really. I mean, he went into Davy Jones locker, came out, and did wat he always does... trick people and be dishonest, as well as tick villians off. but Will and Liz's characters grew. Will tricked jack for a change, became a real pirate, got married, died, stabbed DJ's heart, became captain of the FD, and had a kid. Liz got married, made up with Will, had her father die, kissed 3 different guys, had a kid, had her husband die, witnessed like 3 deaths, became the pirates king,became a pirate lord, and waited for 10 years on an island for her true love. Jack- got into the locker, got out, said goodbye to liz, and did stuff that he's done in every movie. Jack pulling off a big trick or switching things up would have been a repeat. the only thing that jack did that showed even the least bit of character growth was save Will.

I finally got to see AWE again yesterday! And I liked willabeth more i think. it just seemed better to me than it did before. I'm thinking of it now as, Jack loves Elizabeth as a friend and he cares for Will too. And when he saw Lizzie freaking out when will was dying, there was no way he was just gonna take lizzie for himself. When she was leaving he was sad, but he was happy for her too. And Jack's ending is better for me too. I was very upset that it ended with him without his ship, what he worked so hard to get back in movie 1. But the thing is, his ship is freedom to him, BUT the fountain of youth is ultimate freedom!

I actually had a fuzzy feeling for Lizzie and will during their marriage scene. I guess I sorta tried to look at the things from Jack's POV or Lizzie's POV. I also was thinking when will was dying, "Wow, this has been rough for her! Her dad dies, James dies, and now her first love.. her fiance?" If Will had died, all she would have is Jack.. and it seems a little uncomfortable to me. I mean, she knows him and is friends with him... But she's known Will all her life.. and James and her father.

I still love the idea of Jack and Lizzie though.. I think they could've really had some potential. But alas my friends.. It would've never worked out between them.

EXACTLY!!! MY POINT EXACTLY!!! THANK YOU

Well potcfan2003 about what u said about JAck not growing...I agree but I think that was their main mistake I think!

He WAS growing. He was growing a bit in COTBP and rapidly in DMC but it was like they hit him over the head with an oar to stop his character from progressing...they could have him develope if they wanted to and please don't anyone say they couldn't have.

He didn't even need to be with Elizabeth for that to happen.

Ofcourse MOST ppl weren't even seeing his growth through the first two.

And I also have to say this about the whole "liz killed Jack thing" .
Lets say I agree that liz doesn't love Jack and he doesn't love her and they weren't meant to be together but I don't think that the whole liz killing him is a proof of that.

I think her love for will is proof of that(I mean that WE should be together), I think her SACRIFICING JAck for Will is proof of that, I think how she looks when will dies is proof of that....

However I think Lizzie killed JAck not ONLY because she wanted to save will but also because she wanted to slake her lust at the same time.(as T&T said)

And yes I think JAck hates Liz for it but is also proud of her for being a pirate...she proved him right afterall and he proved her right and so they keep setting up things that neither can win.

So yes I am indeed talking too much again lol 😄

I'm just saying that even if I agree that liz has no feelings for JAck. The death scene isn't proof of that.

It IS proof that liz didn't love Jack..if she did she wouldn't have drowned him.

But it does prove that she has feelings for him...she wouldn't have drowned him if she didn't. 😄

I agree. Poor all handsome boys standing on her way, if they attract her she will kill them 😄 😉

I don't like that the authors push Jack aside in AWE. What they show in AWE is his madness and the change in his attitude toward L/W's relationship. All the time, in every movie, he wants Will out of his way (probably to get the girl), he even emphasizes it during the negotiations with Beckett. He's a pirate so he fights to get what he wants. However he saves Will at the end. I'm not sure if he would have done this if he hadn't seen Liz's desperation. I think that during this moment he realizes how deep her love to Will is and gives up. He also gives up his dream about immortality and overcomes his aversion to Will showing that he's not a bad man.

Liz... It seems to me that sometimes Liz behaves more like a pirate than Jack does 😄 DMC - He comes back on Black Pearl to save them and pays for that with his own life (Liz's act is very mean at this moment, because he comes back, helps and she shows no mercy 😄. ) In AWE she's a brave king of pirates who knows how to speak to her men 😄 Sometimes I find her annoying.

I don't like Will in AWE. He tries to be sly. He would have failed his mission if Jack hadn't helped him. So he should have showed his gratitude and left Liz in his hands 😂

I think that the greatest sin of AWE was not enough Jack. TnT says that it's Liz's story and it's always been hers. However they shouldn't forget that Jack is the character people want to see the most. I hope they won't forget that in the fourth movie 😉