darthgoober's Amalgam Tourny Match 5

Originally posted by darthgoober
Ok time for clarification. Now it's my understanding that intangibility is Shadowcat's natural state now, and she actually had to train herself to remain solid. If that is actually the case, then the fact that her power was physical and required no conscious effort would mean that it WOULD carry over into the "Body" category.

I'm calling shenanigans on this. 👇

Originally posted by illadelph12
Drafting a body in a semi-permanent state of intangibility being over the killability cap. Similar to the Iceman Rule or Zzaxx ruling.

I want a judge vote on this.

"Two kinds,one is cosmic energy,another 21st century tech.My shields come from the 31st century,and are made of Energy so advanced Vision probably doesn't have a clue what it is.So you really beleive that a bloodlusted Metamorpho,who had his opponents lying on the ground,would not try to phase?you have nothing to back up that youy can breach my shields,and even if you do try and phase through me,it's an instant loss for you,as while my suit may conk out,i am also phased,and that means that if a robot pphases through me,your body and Visons powers short out,so it would be a useless kamikaze,great tactic thumb up"

Except that if you try to solidfy, you'll end up hurting yourself. I can phase attack and solidify, you can't. 2nd, Thunder increases her mass, thereby increasing her density. She can't phase and she would have no idea how to control it. 3rd, Shadowcat's perma-phase state was nearly fatal to her, and Reed Richards had to cure her.

Here's Shadowcat getting hit in phase state which caused her to go perma-phase in the first place. Uncanny Xmen #211.
http://groups.msn.com/ultimatespidermanonlinecomic/uncxmen1.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=19788
http://groups.msn.com/ultimatespidermanonlinecomic/uncxmen1.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=19789
http://groups.msn.com/ultimatespidermanonlinecomic/uncxmen1.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=19792
http://groups.msn.com/ultimatespidermanonlinecomic/uncxmen1.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=19794

This caused her to under molecular deterioration. She was saved by Reed Richards and Dr. Doom in the Fantastic 4 vs. Xmen limited series.

Here's my proof that my phase attack can hit you anyway.

Vision hitting Moonstone.
http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/2184/vision8vl.jpg

"Two kinds,one is cosmic energy,another 21st century tech.My shields come from the 31st century,and are made of Energy so advanced Vision probably doesn't have a clue what it is.So you really beleive that a bloodlusted Metamorpho,who had his opponents lying on the ground,would not try to phase?you have nothing to back up that youy can breach my shields,and even if you do try and phase through me,it's an instant loss for you,as while my suit may conk out,i am also phased,and that means that if a robot pphases through me,your body and Visons powers short out,so it would be a useless kamikaze,great tactic "

Problem here. Vision doesn't phase into a gasesous state. 😛 You're just showing ignorance of my guy's powers. As already shown, I can attack phased people and your perma-phase is in fact, fatal to you if you can't de-phase. 2nd, I have full knowledge of Vision's powers, thus, I know to phase attack someone who is phased.

"My lord,you actually think that your more durable then me?Thunder alone has taken hits from Supergirl and taunted her about their lack of effect when she was maximun density,Giant man is a pounk compared to Supergirl."

Total BS. Supergirl was taking it easy on them since she wanted to join the outsiders. 🙄

Especially since Sabbac one-shotted her and Grace.
http://groups.msn.com/ultimatespidermanonlinecomic/issue087.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=40783
http://groups.msn.com/ultimatespidermanonlinecomic/issue087.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=40784

"Thats nice,but a very low showing,considering his shields have stopped a bloodlusted Mary Marvel,Metamorpho and Guy Gardner.Plus it's hardly relevant seeing as my shields will never be up against a nuke."

How pray tell, did you take hits from Mary Marvel, when one punch from DOS Doomsday ruined your armor? Did you use the Midas mode? In case you don't know, it's a special circuit that supercharges your armor. That burns out your power in minutes and leaves your suit drained. The Guy Gardner scan is total PIS, don't try to claim otherwise. And I don't phase like a gas, so the Metamorpho example is worthless.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
I'm calling shenanigans on this. 👇

Originally posted by darthgoober
1. Reed Richards could really go either way and because of that guys like him will be a little tricky to deal with. If you take him as your "Body" character you WILL get his basic durability. But if your wanting to use his offensive capabilities as well your going to have to draft him into the "Powers" category.

As a basic rule of thumb, your "Body" comes with any abilties that don't require mental effort to control. So if it's automatic(like someone shooting Reed and his body stretching in automatic response) then it's "Body". If it DOES require mental control(like Reed stretching to wrap around an opponent) then it falls under the "Powers" category. Because of this, I've decided to alter a previous ruling I made via PM where I classified Healing Factors as a "Power". Under the new system it WILL fall under the "Body" attribute as long as it doesn't require any mental effort on the characters part.

If being phased is Kitty's natural state and mental effort is required for her to become solid, then it falls under the "Body" category. Now I understand the concerns regarding her "killability", but the fact is that she's no more unkillable than she was previously. She's still vulnerable to the same things that she was before it was revealed that MM's amalgam would be naturally phased, and she's no more powerful than she was before. If anything, she's technically LESS powerful as a "Body" pick because she loses her ability to consciously control her power.

I'm not trying to kill your argument, but what MM is proposing DOES fall within the rules of the tourney.

Which Vision is being used? I'm asking because scans for both classic and Young Avengers (Young Kang's armour) versions have been used so far.

yo this is a cool fight

Originally posted by Scoobless
Which Vision is being used? I'm asking because scans for both classic and Young Avengers (Young Kang's armour) versions have been used so far.

'Unofficial post'
The feats being used are things both Visions are capable of doing. And what's the diff? It's the same guy, same capabilities as far as the scans are concerned. 😕

And go to hell , judge. 😛

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
'Unofficial post'
The feats being used are things both Visions are capable of doing. And what's the diff? It's the same guy, same capabilities as far as the scans are concerned. 😕

And go to hell , judge. 😛

They are actually a little different, I'd just like to know which you are using.

Alrighty,here's a post just to summarise the match.

As i have shown,Trickers opening post is basically worthless and a huge hunk of Bs,as he expects a double standard of me fighting in-charcter,and him having never before seen tactical skill or competence.I also proved that either in character or out,i am vastly more experienced then he is and will not fall for such a stupid trap.

Since it has been confirmed that I am perma intangible,Tricker has no way of harming me to any possible degree,as i have a combination of GL holding sheilds

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/452819_1-respect-booster-gold

And Kitty prides phasing ability.

http://img152.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sc1co8.jpg

Which means Tricker can not mount any pheasible offence in anyway,shape or form.

I on the other hand,have a to use minimal effort to defeat Tricker,as he can not hurt me with his energy blasts,nor will the Nuke be able to harm me whilst phased,as these scans conclusively proove.

http://img407.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sc4mz3.jpg
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u131/jason-todd/Jimscomics025.jpg

Now,as Vision has never shown to take a nuke,that means he'll have to high tale it outta there,and that means that i can follow.All i need is one touch to end this match,as this scan here shows:

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u131/jason-todd/Jimscomics024.jpg

I break mechanics if i walk through them phased.It is inevitable that Tricker will fall.

Now i ask,how can Tricker be the winner if he lacks any possible offence?if he touches me his mechanical body will shut down and he'll lose instantly,and if he avoids me long enough,he'll phase underground,where i can follow,it's essentially just a matter of time until he loses,and as he has not produced one viable tactic,he cannot possibly win this match.

So all in all,i know that Tricker is screwed,and i think he knows it too,with me being untouchable,unharmable,and able to defeat him with a single touch,and he can't stop me.

This post was after the gun I believe MM. Goob said matches closed last night at Midnight IIRC.

Originally posted by illadelph12
This post was after the gun I believe MM. Goob said matches closed last night at Midnight IIRC.

#nooficial#
I did post before midnight.

unless he meant a different time zone to mine.....which on reflection he probably did.

my bad.

Originally posted by Martian_mind
#nooficial#
I did post before midnight.

unless he meant a different time zone to mine.....which on reflection he probably did.

my bad.

So if the match ended at midnight that would be 1:00 Am Eastern Standard Time.

Originally posted by Martian_mind
#nooficial#
I did post before midnight.

unless he meant a different time zone to mine.....which on reflection he probably did.

my bad.

He meant midnight on Sunday.

Judge's Vote

Firstly, let me congratulate you both on a great match. It was looking very grim there at first when we didn't know whether or not Martian was going to show but then he made things very interesting (to say the least). Before I give my final vote I'd like to explain the factors that led to my decision so that both combatants can understand my reasoning and why I came to this conclusion (I'll try to be more concise this time around).

1.) Compatibility - There were a large number of amalgamation issues that I found with Martian's character. Kitty Pryde as the body pick didn't sit right with me, I felt it was a bad choice from the outset of this round. She really offers nothing beneficial to that component. Even assuming (as we are) that Kitty's body is permanently phased (which I don't believe it actually is), you would still need a means to make yourself tangible again to interact with the environment, as you get no knowledge of how to use your body (Kitty)'s powers (as Goober reiterated, you'd essentially just be phasing through everything). The manner in which Thunder's powers work would not allow you to become tangible. Thunder simply takes on and shunts additional mass. In your permanently phased form your powers would be redundant (taking on additional phased mass). We're also led to assume that Kitty's perma phased body won't disable Booster's powersuit (though it actually would).

Basically, with all due respect, your amalgam was poorly conceived in my eyes and it's hard for me to see it capable of any of the few feats you presented save phasing through, well, everything.

2) Combat - Trickster presented methods of attack in his posts and supported them with evidence. Martian moreso presented methods of defense (hiding in the ground, shields) and letting the bomb kill Trickster, of which there's no guarantee it would do. Don't forget, Little Boy was a clandestine warhead (the first atomic bomb ever used). It's not as powerful as current day nuclear warheads, it only had about a 15 kiloton yield. Martian's posts mostly consisted of reiterating that he was phased and nothing could hurt him (even after Trickster presented scans of phased Kitty getting hurt), and then boasting of the strength of Booster's shields (see Compatibility).

3) Scans - None of Martian's scans worked. At first I wasn't going to hold it against him, but he easily could have just lobbied for a free post so that he could re-submit them and it would have been granted. Instead he referred us to a respect thread. Please at least seem like you're putting forth an effort.

4) Booster's intelligence - Assuming Booster knows the capabilities of the scarab armor simply because he's from the future doesn't sit well with me. I've read many of his appearances and he always seems to be getting fed info by Skeets. Skeets isn't available to you in this tourney and you didn't provide evidence of Booster having the knowledge himself.

etc...

I think I'll just end it.

Essentially, I see this as Martian pretty much putting himself in a position where Trickster could take advantage of him. Martian's amalgam would suffocate himself if he stayed in the ground for a prolonged period of time, and he has no way of becoming tangible. Trickster can still harm the phased form with his proposed energy attacks where as Martian never fully presented his offensive capabilities save trapping Kheprion in a shield or phasing through Kheprion if and when he was tangible.

This is basically intangibility versus intangibility with Trickster having presented more viable methods of attack.

My vote is for Trickster. 👆

Good match. Perhaps if Martian was online more often he could have presented a more fleshed out attack. As it stands he didn't. Sorry Martian.

(Damn, that wasn't really concise either.)

Judge's Vote

Hmm... interesting match fellas. 🙂 I'd like to congratulate both combatants on a good fight here. 👆

In my mind, there were some serious discrepancies with MM's amalgamation. If Kitty's natural state is intangibility, then he's going to have some problems attacking TP. However, there is also the argument of Booster Gold’s shields. I find it laughable that MM seems to think that Booster Gold’s technology is >>> Iron Man’s extremis armor simply because it's from the 31st century. He was also putting WAY too much faith in the shields. BG doesn’t really have as strong of as MM wanted everyone to believe. Vision could more than likely phase through them, or TP’s character could probably break them with enough force at his disposal.

Regardless, I think the blinding solar flare provided for a good distraction so that Priest’s character could go to work. It’d take MM’s character awhile to shake himself out of that dilemma. However, let’s look at MM’s method of attacking: 1) Trying to time when TP’s character would become tangible as he was striking the shield so that he could assail him. Well, there are certainly less complicated ways to go about the matter. That’s not exactly the best strategy in the world. It risks exposure to another attack if he fails with his own assault. 2) Phasing through Bastion’s body in order for Kitty to screw up his internal workings. Well, there are two problems with that:

1. You’d have to rely on getting close to him. And while you might say that’s not a problem because you’re phased, that leads me to my next point.
2. TP has shown plenty of instances where Shadowcat has been hurt in her phased state.

Besides, Vision could just phase through her attempt at trying to phase through him in the first place.

While I think MM did a good job, TP’s arguments seemed to be more sound, and his evidence much more solid. My vote goes to TricksterPriest.

thanks for stepping up bats. 🙂

Originally posted by leonidas
thanks for stepping up bats. 🙂

Christ can we just declare Tricker the winner already?

I don't even want to go on cause of the pain in the ass getting to this match was,and since i barely prepared,i didn't expect to win,i just didn't wanna be a no show.

he won,by criky,just finish this tourney so i can have a good show in the next one.

Judge's Vote

TP:

- Insulting you opponent to gain an edge....really?!
- You said repeatedly that he would never find you, but you never explained how. You can both phase, but that doesn't really = invisible.
- Booster survives 52, so I'm guessing there's some context you're not telling us with that bomb-death scan.
- Beetle's your mind and he's kind of a newb....you never addressed how he'd be fully utilizing the powers, especially since a few of your Vision feats talk about how adept he is at changing forms....which is a "mind" thing.

MM:

- We have examples (not scans) of Kitty being able to be harmed by energy, and NOT being harmed by energy. I really don't know which to believe...but I know that no intengibility is completely untouchable, especially for one who can also go intangible.
- You accuse TP of not showing proof that Kitty's power were on the fritz when she was perma-phased, and also about the breathing thing.....then you offer no proof to bolster your counter-point. I'm not an X-Men fan, so it's hard to even know what to believe when there's contradictory statements about something that should be provable one way or the other. It's your amalgam though...you should be better prepared to defend basic power-related stuff like that.
- Linking to the BG respect thread doesn't exactly count as posting links. Especially with all the misinformation in this battle, am I really supposed to sift through it and say "Hmm. Is this the one he was talking about?"
- You've created a cool shield + phasing cocoon for yourself. But this might make it rough to, ya know, hurt Trick unless you want to make yourself a bit more vulnerable.
- That last post you made was over 9 hours after the scheduled stopping time. I can understand that you weren't fully prepped for this match, but unless your time zone is a whopping 9 hours behind goob's, you just lied. Say you didn't know what the stopping time was or something...sheesh! But that was kinda low.

General:

- You both need to learn to quote individual sections of the other person's post....much easier to follow counter-arguments that way.

Anyway, I'll make the win official. Voting for Trick. Not enough concerns addressed in MM's posts.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
That last post you made was over 9 hours after the scheduled stopping time. I can understand that you weren't fully prepped for this match, but unless your time zone is a whopping 9 hours behind goob's, you just lied.

He's in Australia ... he's around 16 hours ahead of DG's timezone.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Anyway, I'll make the win official. Voting for Trick. Not enough concerns addressed in MM's posts.

Originally posted by Scoobless
He's in Australia ... he's around 16 hours ahead of DG's timezone.

Fair enough then.